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Baha’i Faith community members: For Bahá’u’lláh and the House of Justice

Jim

Nets of Wonder
NOTE: This thread is in the Same Faith Debates forum. It’s only for recognized members of the worldwide Baha’i Faith community that is following the Universal House of Justice seated on Mount Carmel in Haifa, Israel. If anyone who is not a member has any ideas about it, I would like to see those ideas, but in some other thread, not this one.

If there are any Baha’i Faith community members who see anything that they do in Internet discussions as serving Baha’u’llah’s purposes or what the House of Justice is promoting, I’d like to learn about what you’re doing. You could post here, or send me a PM.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
When I first started posting in Internet discussions, I was hoping that it would help free me from any prejudices and delusions that I might have without being aware of them. Later, I was trying to be a friend to some of the people around me that I saw being marginalized and stigmatized the most. More recently, I was trying to practice and promote better attitudes and behavior in Internet discussions, and bringing out the best possibilities in them. Now mostly what I’d like to do is practice and promote spiritual growth and community service, for a healthier, happier and more loving community life in Internet neighborhoods. I’ve diverged from that in the last few weeks, trying out some ideas for helping to counteract the spread of misunderstandings and misinformation. Now I’m hoping to get back to encouraging and supporting spiritual growth and community service.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’ve been thinking about what I’ve seen other Baha’is doing in Internet discussions, and what they’ve said about their reasons, and how they might see that as serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes or what the House of Justice is promoting. Here are some possibilities I see:
- Sometimes they might be thinking of what Baha’i writings say about teaching the Faith.
- Sometimes they might be practicing some spiritual qualities, and hoping to be an example for others, in the ways that they say what they’re thinking.
- Sometimes they might be thinking of the discussions as a way for people to get to know each other and learn from each other. I think that can serve Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes, but I don’t if any Baha’is are actually thinking if it that way.

I’m hoping to get some more ideas from members of the Baha’i Faith community, about how Baha’is might see what they do in Internet discussions as serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes or what the House of Justice is promoting.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Maybe what I’m hoping for is to find something that someone else is doing in Internet discussions, with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, or to practice what the House of Justice is promoting. If so, then it might be good for our purposes to have some discussions about what we’re doing. Most of all I would like to discuss ideas about how to practice online what the House of Justice is promoting offline.

Now I remember another one of Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes that people might have in mind sometimes in Internet discussions: friendliness and fellowship across belief divides. I had forgotten, that has also been one of my purposes most of the time that I’ve been posting, along with the other purposes I listed above.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Hi @Jim
We’ve talked quite a lot in recent times about what we’re doing here and trying to achieve. Interestingly, I have just posted my first thread on this forum where I mentioned the Baha’i Faith in the title. Why have I done this now and not before? I’m wanting to understand how my personal beliefs about the afterlife are shaped by both being a Baha’i and having been a Christian. I’m not really thinking about how I can serve Bahá’u’lláh or the Universal House of Justice. Should I be?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Hi @Jim
We’ve talked quite a lot in recent times about what we’re doing here and trying to achieve. Interestingly, I have just posted my first thread on this forum where I mentioned the Baha’i Faith in the title. Why have I done this now and not before? I’m wanting to understand how my personal beliefs about the afterlife are shaped by both being a Baha’i and having been a Christian. I’m not really thinking about how I can serve Bahá’u’lláh or the Universal House of Justice. Should I be?
I’m not really sure that you aren’t really seriously asking me that question. Are you?
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
I’m not really sure that you aren’t really seriously asking me that question. Are you?
Its a serious question but admittedly there’s a sense of irony there too.

I may meet up with a work acquaintance socially. Its just part of being a social person living in a social space. There’s nothing wrong with that but as a Baha’i I wouldn’t be getting together over a few beers and I would be avoiding gossip and backbiting. That is sufficient. I’m not really thinking about how I might introduce the Baha’i Faith into the conversation. I’m not thinking about how I can serve Bahá’u’lláh’s purpose or serve the Universal House of Justice either.

I think its the same with discussion about religion on this forum. Obviously we are discussing religion and that may or may not touch on the Baha’i Faith. If its a comparative religion topic then maybe it will. I am a Baha’i after all. But the intent is to have a friendly discussion where we can learn. That in itself is sufficient. Any more than that starts crossing lines.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I think that what I’m hoping and wishing for here, is to find something that someone else is doing in Internet discussions, that they are doing with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, or to practice what the House of Justice is promoting.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
But the intent is to have a friendly discussion where we can learn. That in itself is sufficient. Any more than that starts crossing lines.
Are you saying that it should be sufficient for everyone, and that it’s wrong for anyone to try to do more than that? Do you think that posting in in Internet discussions with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, and to practice what the House of Justice is promoting, is crossing lines? For example:
... hoping that it would help free me from any prejudices and delusions that I might have without being aware of them. ... trying to be a friend to some of the people around me that I saw being marginalized and stigmatized the most. ... trying to practice and promote better attitudes and behavior in Internet discussions, and bringing out the best possibilities in them. ... practice and promote spiritual growth and community service, for a healthier, happier and more loving community life in Internet neighborhoods. ...encouraging and supporting spiritual growth and community service.
... friendliness and fellowship across belief divides. ...
What do you see in that, that is crossing lines, and what lines do you see it crossing? I’ve been doing all of that with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, and to practice what the House of Justice is promoting. Everything I do in Internet discussions is, and always has been, with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, and to practice what the House of Justice is promoting.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
I may meet up with a work acquaintance socially. Its just part of being a social person living in a social space. There’s nothing wrong with that but as a Baha’i I wouldn’t be getting together over a few beers and I would be avoiding gossip and backbiting. That is sufficient.
Have you been reading all the messages from the House of Justice, about what it is promoting for Baha’is to do? In your mind, does faithfulness to the Covenant include trying to understand and practice everything that the House of Justice is promoting for Baha’is to do?
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
If there’s no one doing anything in Internet discussions to practice what the House of Justice is promoting, maybe there might be someone who would be willing just to think and talk with me about it? It wouldn’t even have to be a Baha’i. Only, if they aren’t a member, it would have to be in a different thread.
 

Dawnofhope

Non-Proselytizing Baha'i
Staff member
Premium Member
Are you saying that it should be sufficient for everyone, and that it’s wrong for anyone to try to do more than that? Do you think that posting in in Internet discussions with Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes in mind, and to practice what the House of Justice is promoting, is crossing lines?

I’m talking about my experience and approach with being on an internet discussion group. I’m thinking about how my approach may or may not fit with Bahá’u’lláh’s purpose. To be clear, Im not saying other people or Baha’is should take my approach at all. The lines I would be most concerned about are either breaking Baha’i laws and the rules of this forum I agreed to as a condition of being here.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
... the intent is to have a friendly discussion ...
That might be serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes, even if that is not your reason for doing it.
Consort with the followers of all religions in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.
- Tablets of Bahá’u’lláh Revealed After the Kitáb-i-Aqdas, page 22
Deal ye one with another with the utmost love and harmony, with friendliness and fellowship. ... This goal excelleth every other goal, and this aspiration is the monarch of all aspirations. ... Consort with all men, O people of Bahá, in a spirit of friendliness and fellowship.
- Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pages 288-289
We love to see you at all times consorting in amity and concord within the paradise of My good-pleasure, and to inhale from your acts the fragrance of friendliness and unity, of loving-kindness and fellowship. ... if We inhale the perfume of your fellowship, Our heart will assuredly rejoice, for naught else can satisfy Us.
- Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pages 315-316
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
If any Baha’is are thinking of some part of what they do in Internet discussions as being for Baha’u’llah, I’m hoping that they will read this and take some time to think about it. Even better would be for them to discuss it with me, here or in private messages if that would be better for them.

Just as an example, one of Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes that a Baha’i might have in mind sometimes could be this:
God hath prescribed unto every one the duty of teaching His Cause.
- Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, page 335
Be unrestrained as the wind, while carrying the Message of Him Who hath caused the Dawn of Divine Guidance to break.
- Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, page 339

That’s just one example of how a Baha’i might think of some of what they’re doing in Internet discussions as being for Baha’u’llah. I’m still hoping for other Baha’is to post other examples.

I’ll add some context to those quotes.
God hath prescribed unto every one the duty of teaching His Cause. Whoever ariseth to discharge this duty, must needs, ere he proclaimeth His Message, adorn himself with the ornament of an upright and praiseworthy character, so that his words may attract the hearts of such as are receptive to his call. Without it, he can never hope to influence his hearers.
Be unrestrained as the wind, while carrying the Message of Him Who hath caused the Dawn of Divine Guidance to break. Consider, how the wind, faithful to that which God hath ordained, bloweth upon all the regions of the earth, be they inhabited or desolate. Neither the sight of desolation, nor the evidences of prosperity, can either pain or please it. It bloweth in every direction, as bidden by its Creator. So should be every one that claimeth to be a lover of the one true God. It behoveth him to fix his gaze upon the fundamentals of His Faith, and to labor diligently for its propagation. Wholly for the sake of God he should proclaim His Message, and with that same spirit accept whatever response his words may evoke in his hearer.
I want to explain how I’ve thought of what I’ve been doing in Internet discussions as being for Baha’u’llah, and how that has evolved over the years. First of all, it was always about practicing friendliness and fellowship across belief divides. Alone with that, I’ve had other purposes in mind, with my priorities changing sometimes. In the beginning, it was mostly about freedom from prejudices and delusions. I see that as part of what needs to happen for His purposes. I thought that spending time in Internet discussions with people whose ideas and interests seemed contrary to mine, might help free me from some prejudices and delusions that I might have without being aware of them.

Then for a while it was mostly about learning to be a friend to some of the people around me that I saw being marginalized and stigmatized the most. I saw that as another way of serving Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes. Then for a while my highest prioritiy was just practicing friendliness and fellowship across belief divides, including some belief divides between me and other Baha’is.

More recently I was trying to practice and promote better behavior in Internet discussions. Then I started practicing and promoting spiritual growth and community service with love for all of nature including all people everywhere, for a healthier, happier and more loving community life. That’s what I see the House of Justice promoting, translated into terms that I’m hoping most people can understand. I also went off on a side path, trying some ideas for responding to misunderstandings and misinformation about evolution theory and about the Baha’i Faith. Now I’m hoping to focus more again on spiritual growth and community service.

Now I’m coming to the part where I hope that Baha’is posting here will take some time to think about it very seriously, if Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes are important to them.

I think that for Baha’u’llah’s purposes it’s much, much more important for people to see people practicing Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings than to see them talking about them. In fact, I think that it’s counterproductive for Baha’u’llah’s purposes for people to see people preaching about His teachings without practicing them. I think that applies just as much online as it does offline.

Again, what I’m saying is for anyone who thinks of some part of what they do in Internet discussions as being for Baha’u’llah. If it’s more important for Baha’u’llah purposes for people to see people practicing Bahá’u’lláh’s teachings than to see them preaching about them, I’m hoping for Baha’is to go much farther than simply trying sometimes to be polite and tactful in promoting and defending their ideas about Baha’i beliefs and practices in opposition to some of the beliefs and practices of others. I’m hoping for Baha’is to think more of Internet discussions as a part of the society around us, as neighborhoods as much as any offline neighborhoods, where we try to practice everything that we’re learning from Bahá’u’lláh about how to live our lives.

Again, I’m hoping for people who care about Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes to take some time to think very seriously about what I’m saying. I’m hoping for Baha’is to think about Internet discussions as virtual neighborhoods, places to practice what we’re learning from Bahá’u’lláh as much and in as many ways as we can, and give up trying to use them to promote and defend Baha’i beliefs and practices in opposition to the beliefs and practices of others, no matter how politely and tactfully they try to do that, and no matter what kind words they tack onto it. I’m hoping for people who care about Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes to take some time to think very seriously about what I’m saying.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
In my post before this one I wrote about what I’m hoping for, for Baha’is to do individually, but there’s something that I’m hoping for even more, for us to do together. What I’m hoping for people to see us doing together is practicing together what we’re learning from Bahá’u’lláh about how all the people of the world, in all their diversity including diversity in their beliefs and practices, can work together in fellowship to help improve the lives of all people everywhere and improve the world for future generations. Again, this is for people who think of some part of what they do in Internet discussions as being for Baha’u’llah. Again, I’m hoping for those people to take some time to think seriously about what I’m saying.

I don’t think that anything anyone says in Internet discussions about the message of Bahá’u’lláh can mean anything to anyone or have any impact without them seeing Baha’is in Internet discussions working together in some ways that clearly benefit other people besides themselves, and are clearly motivated by other interests besides promoting their own beliefs and practices in opposition to some beliefs and practices of other people. One way I see for that to happen is for two or more Baha’is who are posting in Internet discussions to be studying and trying to understand what the House of Justice has been calling for Baha’is to do for Baha’u’llah’s purposes and in response to what the world needs, and to try to apply the same ideas to what they do in Internal discussions.

I’m hoping for people who care about Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes to take some time to think seriously about what I’m saying.

One of Baha’u’llah’s last wishes was for His followers to follow Abdul-Baha. One of Abdul-Baha’s last wishes was for the followers of Bahá’u’lláh to follow Shoghi Effendi and the Universal House of Justice. Shoghi Effendi said that his best hope for the future was for Baha’is to rally around their national spiritual assemblies, and the national spiritual assemblies are rallying around the spiritual community development that the House of Justice is promoting. I think that all of the principles that the House of Justice is promoting for community development in offline neighborhoods and villages can be applied to online neighborhoods, including Internet forums without violating either the letter or the spirit of forum rules. I’m thinking of it as being about spiritual growth and community service, with love for all of nature including all people everywhere, for a healthier, happier and more loving community life. Different people might think of it in different ways. The idea is for each person to study and try to understand the aims, purposes and principles of what the House of Justice has been promoting for community development, and find ways to apply those to what we do in Internal discussions.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
It might be that some or even most Baha’is posting in Internet discussions are out in the margins of the Baha’i community, unable or unwilling to participate in the activities that the House of Justice is promoting. Maybe even disapproving those activities or embarrassed by them, sometimes not daring to admit that even to themselves.

I don’t think that it’s always wrong to have other priorities, or feel an aversion to those activities and not want to participate in them or even read about them. People who don’t want to participate in them might not see any reason to study them and try to understand them. Maybe they can understand though, that what the House of Justice is promoting is the center of unity for the followers of Bahá’u’lláh today. People can follow Bahá’u’lláh or be Baha’is individually in their own way, according to their own understanding, but if they want to be part of some Baha’i unity, some united action of Baha’is or of followers of Bahá’u’lláh, and if they want to help show the world the possibilities for unity, the center of that unity can only be what the House of Justice is promoting. Anyone who wants to can be part of that, even if they are unable or unwilling to participate in the activities, by continually studying what the House of Justice says about it and trying to better understand it.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’ll use this thread to discuss my understanding of what the House of Justice is promoting, and my ideas of how to practice it in Internet discussions. Maybe some day some other Baha’is will do the same. Practicing what the House of Justice is promoting is one way that I see for Baha’is to practice the kind of unity that the world needs. What we say in Internet discussions about unity might mean a lot more to people and have a lot more impact on society, if we are visibly practicing it ourseves.

One of my ways of thinking about what the House of Justice is promoting is that it provides training and experience for practicing and promoting economic and social development revolving around personal spiritual growth and community service, and guided by spiritual values and goals. It evolves through stages from simple acts of service, helping with the training of adults, junior youth and children, to collaboration with others on economic and social development addressing a wide range of current issues, and participating in discussions about those issues with decision makers and policy makers.

In Internet discussions, I’m currently practicing and promoting spiritual growth and community service. One way I’m doing that is looking for people doing some kind of community service in these forums, and trying to find friendly and helpful ways to respond to that. For the training part, I’ve had some discussions with other people practicing community service in these forums, about our experiences and what we’re learning. Also, I’ll be thinking about the practices and what we learn to do in the Ruhi courses, and how to practice all that in Internet discussions.
 
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TransmutingSoul

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I’ll use this thread to discuss my understanding of what the House of Justice is promoting, and my ideas of how to practice it in Internet discussions. Maybe some day some other Baha’is will do the same. Practicing what the House of Justice is promoting is one way that I see for Baha’is to practice the kind of unity that the world needs. What we say in Internet discussions about unity might mean a lot more to people and have a lot more impact on society, if we are visibly practicing it ourseves.

One of my ways of thinking about what the House of Justice is promoting is that it provides training and experience for practicing and promoting economic and social development revolving around personal spiritual growth and community service, and guided by spiritual values and goals. It evolves through stages from simple acts of service, helping with the training of adults, junior youth and children, to collaboration with others on economic and social development addressing a wide range of current issues, and participating in discussions about those issues with decision makers and policy makers.

In Internet discussions, I’m currently practicing and promoting spiritual growth and community service. One way I’m doing that is looking for people doing some kind of community service in these forums, and trying to find friendly and helpful ways to respond to that. For the training part, I’ve had some discussions with other people practicing community service in these forums, about our experiences and what we’re learning. Also, I’ll be thinking about the practices and what we learn to do in the Ruhi courses, and how to practice all that in Internet discussions.

They are worthy Goals Jim

I see one important aspect with all this, is that in the end, a community also allows for individual initiatives and growth.

The ultimate goal of a community is to guide souls and not to dominate them. Thus to be a community, we have to balance each others approaches and thoughts with our own, not attempt to dominate with our own thoughts, no matter how more in tune with the truth they may be, or we perceive them to be.

Regards Tony
 
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