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Bahá’u’lláh’s role in responding to the needs of the world, and in human progress

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’ve been confused about what I’m doing in this thread. I think that when I started it, I wanted to try to explain my ideas about the role of Bahá’u’lláh in responding to current issues and in human progress, in a way that people could understand no matter what they believe or don’t believe about Bahá’u’lláh and His God. Part of what I’m thinking is that for the best possibilities to happen for all people everywhere, we need to have people in every community everywhere around the world who are learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions. Also, the laws of all the governments will need to include His laws. I don’t think that any of that requires all people to become members of the Baha’i Faith or to believe everything that Baha’is believe about Bahá’u’lláh and His God.

I thought of the community life training and practice that the House of Justice is promoting as an example of Bahá’u’lláh’s role in responding to current issues and in human progress. A question came up about whether I think that the same kind of training and practice revolving around other teachers could serve the same purposes just as well. I think that might do a lot of good and little or no harm, and I would be glad for that to happen, but for the best possibilities to happen for all people everywhere, I think that it’s indispensable for some of that training and practice to revolve around Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions, In many more neighborhoods and villages everywhere around the world, than the number of those where it’s happening now.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
Sure, you are a Muslim and a twelver. But it is your view. Others have different views.
I'm a seeker of the religion of the Twelve, by I don't identify as either a Muslim or a Shiite. The reason being is the religion as we have it today is so far distant then the original religion of Abraham, Moses, Jesus, and Mohammad and his family, there is no point to identity with Muslims or Shiites.

I submit to God to the best of my ability and seek his guidance and seek the religion of the Twelve Successors of Mohammad.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
I have nothing to do with God / Allah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad or his family. We have our own Gods, Goddeses (though I am an atheist) and sages.
 

Link

Veteran Member
Premium Member
I have nothing to do with God / Allah, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Mohammad or his family. We have our own Gods, Goddeses (though I am an atheist) and sages.

That's fine, if Mohammad and his family and those other ones are not chosen, surely there is a guidance from God, and chosen sages. I would never call chosen ones gods or goddesses, because the absolute being deserves a word we reserve for him as the highest form of reverence and love not to be compared with others.
 

Aupmanyav

Be your own guru
As I said I am a strong atheist. I do not believe in God, soul, hell, heaven, Iblis or any kind of messengers and their families. These fairy tales are not for me with which people have been deceived for thousands of years.

iu
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I was confused about what I wanted to do in this thread. I’ll try again to sort it out.

First, it’s to say that in my personal, subjective and possibly wrong view, for the best possibilities to happen for everyone, now and in the future, there need to be a lot more people trying to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practicing His prescriptions. Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions specifically. That doesn’t mean that all those people need to be members of the Baha’i Faith, or to believe what Baha’is believe about Bahá’u’lláh, about His God, or about world peace. It doesn’t mean that there’s no need for anyone to follow any other teachers.

I also wanted people to know about a kind of training and practice that I think is happening in thousands of neighborhoods and villages around the world, that I think is helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. It’s training for self improvement and community service with those purposes in mind. People of all religions and people outside of them are being trained that way, side by side, and applying it to their work in economic and social development.

A question came up about whether that kind of training revolving around other teachers besides Bahá’u’lláh can serve the same purposes just as well. I’m not sure that it can serve them just as well, but I think it would do a lot of good and little or no harm.
 

ManSinha

Well-Known Member
First, it’s to say that in my personal, subjective and possibly wrong view, for the best possibilities to happen for everyone, now and in the future, there need to be a lot more people trying to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practicing His prescriptions. Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions specifically.


Yes that view is wrong - FWIW - there is nothing new in what Baha'u'llah preached that has not been said before. Also just look at the furore over the "Yoga in schools" thread - if you want to have people cooperate and work with you - you need to leave any mention of Baha'u'llah firmly at home. You may make a lot more friends and helpers that way. I can take every positive aspect of Baha'i teachings and show you other places where the self-same thing has been said previously. Also - the Baha'i's are not without their own shortcomings - so IMO - if you want to work for the betterment of communities and the world - leave religion at home. My $0.03 (adjusted for inflation) - to you he may have been a divine manifestation - to many others - well he is not - let us just leave it at that - and making mention of "his principles and prescriptions" will have others more want to walk away than help.
 
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Jim

Nets of Wonder
Yes that view is wrong - FWIW - there is nothing new in what Baha'u'llah preached that has not been said before. Also just look at the furore over the "Yoga in schools" thread - if you want to have people cooperate and work with you - you need to leave any mention of Baha'u'llah firmly at home. You may make a lot more friends and helpers that way. I can take every positive aspect of Baha'i teachings and show you other places where the self-same thing has been said previously. Also - the Baha'i's are not without their own shortcomings - so IMO - if you want to work for the betterment of communities and the world - leave religion at home. My $0.03 (adjusted for inflation) - to you he may have been a divine manifestation - to many others - well he is not - let us just leave it at that - and making mention of "his principles and prescriptions" will have others more want to walk away than help.
In this thread I’m not trying to make friends for the Baha’i Faith. In this thread I’m trying to practice collaboration with some Baha’is who might be trying to do their duty of proclaiming the message of Bahá’u’lláh.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
I’m looking at this in a different way now. My approach now might be to put it in a context of the value of human diversity and cultural diversity. Then I would consider different religions as part of that cultural diversity, and the Baha’i Faith as one of those religions. Diversity in religions includes what people in each religion believe about their religion and about other religions.
 

dfnj

Well-Known Member
I’m looking at this in a different way now. My approach now might be to put it in a context of the value of human diversity and cultural diversity. Then i would consider different religions as part of that cultural diversity, and the Baha’i Faith as one of those religions.

The Japanese have a saying, "The first person to raise their voice in an argument loses." Screaming at everyone Baha’i Faith is the answer is not helping your cause. If fact, your obsession with the words "Baha’i Faith" showing up in thread titles and posts is very much the opposite approach. People who are thoughtful and think about religious topics deeply are not going to be persuaded by advertising tactics of repetition.

I'm very glad you found the Baha’i Faith. The thing is no matter how crystal clear it seems to you the Baha’i Faith is the answer to all the World's problems people are simply not going to agree. People do not share the same life experiences as you do which led you to the place you are no in with spirituality. I think many of your posts make you look foolish like a used car salesman making a pitch over and over again. You are not succeeding in gaining the trust of the forum. You sound like an automaton regurgitating your programming.

World peace and the unification of people through a single religion is a noble goal. The thing is every religion thinks their own religion is the one truth path to enlightenment. As far as I can tell the Baha’i Faith.is just another "follower" religion. I'm not sure "follower" religions are the answer to the World's problems. I think the answer to the World's problems is going to come from people have strength of character to be their own manifestation of God's teaching. We need leaders in fellowship not followers of an organization. Organizations are prone to corruption by the very power structure they've created. For me, the Baha’i Faith seems just like the same-old same-old church organizations we've had for centuries. The new boss is the same as the old boss.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
My approach now might be to call attention to the value of having people with a wide range of ideas, interests and capacities working together on a project. That would apply to anything that people might want to do, to help improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. The wider the range of cultural and religious backgrounds there is in people working together, the wider will be the range of their ideas, interests and capacities. That range of religions includes the Baha’i Faith, and that includes me and what I think about the role of Bahá’u’lláh in responding to current issues and in human progress. Now I see some good possibilities that I wasn’t seeing before, in people learning about other people’s religions.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Considering a wide range of cultural and religious backgrounds in people working together as part of what is needed for the best possibilities to happen, might appeal to people sometimes as a reason for practicing and promoting fellowship and collaboration across the widest belief divides.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
This looks like the best place for me to post this. I think that there is a kind of collaboration between people that needs to happen a lot more than it is happening now, for the best possibilities to happen for all people. I think that kind of collaboration is happening sometimes in communities where people are practicing the kind of community development that the Baha’i Universal House of Justice is promoting. It is not practiced or even understood by all of the members of the Baha’i Faith community, and the people who are doing it are not all members. It does not require anyone to believe anything that Baha’is believe about God, about messengers of God, about religion, about unity, or about anything else.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Another part of what I think is needed, for the best possibilities to happen for all people everywhere, is people valuing all people everywhere, and all of nature, and caring what happens to them, a lot more than they do now, without drawing belief lines between themselves and others. I don’t think that requires anyone to believe anything that Baha’is believe about God, about messengers of God, about religion, about unity, or about anything else.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Another part of what I think is needed, for the best possibilities to happen for all people everywhere, is people valuing all people everywhere, and all of nature, and caring what happens to them, a lot more than they do now, without drawing belief lines between themselves and others. I don’t think that requires anyone to believe anything that Baha’is believe about God, about messengers of God, about religion, about unity, or about anything else.
Would you say religious belief should only be a personal journey, but when we discuss or take part in community service we should not express parts of our religious views (not meaning proselyting).
Or do you feel religion is not valued in society? and should only be practiced at home?
 

Sirona

Hindu Wannabe
Another part of what I think is needed, for the best possibilities to happen for all people everywhere, is people valuing all people everywhere, and all of nature, and caring what happens to them, a lot more than they do now, without drawing belief lines between themselves and others. I don’t think that requires anyone to believe anything that Baha’is believe about God, about messengers of God, about religion, about unity, or about anything else.

As shown in the thread I started about atheist gatherings,

"Atheist churches" lose members

in order to "survive", groups need a positive common goal, an inner bond to keep the group members together. It is possible to make the goal a religious one, but then you always have the risk of excluding "unbelievers". In order to circumvent this, you may present a religion as inclusive of other religions. But the question is how true you are to this premise. For example, in neo-Hinduism, Sathya Sai Baba (deceased) and Vishwananda were/are famous for promoting "religious stew". Vishwananda celebrates Christmas and Easter, and he even used to praise Allah on two albums he took off the market when he had become more powerful. Followers of Vishwananda from Christian backgrounds are probably attracted by his actions, but in the end they will turn away or become Hindus because that's the actual core of his teaching is. In case you plan to start a Baha'i inspired group, some of your group members may eventually become Bahai or they may turn away as well. (It's just illusionary to believe they'd never find out because especially on this forum, positive and negative opinions about the Baha'i faith can be easily found.)

Therefore, it must be well-considered what should be the ideological basis of your group activities.
 

Jim

Nets of Wonder
Would you say religious belief should only be a personal journey, but when we discuss or take part in community service we should not express parts of our religious views (not meaning proselyting).
No, I wouldn’t say that.
Or do you feel religion is not valued in society? and should only be practiced at home?
No, I don’t feel that.
 
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