Bahá’u’lláh’s role in responding to the needs of the world, and in human progress

[oldbadger]

Sorry, my only sources for most of that are Baha’i sources.

I discussed Baha’i training and practice for community development in more detail in this thread: A worldwide community called “the Baha’i Faith”

Ok Jim.
I didn't see many community activities outside of Baha'i groups there.
If you think of any outside activities then please do show them.
That might be shelters for homeless, or soup kitchens, or toys for children's hospitals or ..... mostly any activities.

 

[Jim]

Update on my thoughts about this:

This strictly my own personal view. I’m not speaking for the Baha’i Faith or for any other Baha’is, and I could be misunderstanding what Bahá’u’lláh is saying. It looks to me like He’s saying that for the best possibilities to happen for all people, they need to follow His prescriptions, because of their love for the God that they see in Him. I’m not sure that will ever happen for all people. I’m not sure that it won’t. I think that the more it happens, the better it will be for all people everywhere.

Bahá’u’lláh says that He’s aiming for “the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples.” From my study of His writings I think that relationships between all people and all societies will become more and more friendly, fair, fruitful and beneficial to all people everywhere. The way that people live their lives will bring out more and more of the best possibilities in all people and for all people, in society and in the world around us, including arts, crafts, sciences and services. I think that all that is already happening in some communities where some people are learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions. As I understand it, it revolves around self improvement and community service with the aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. People are studying and practicing, learning to help bring spiritual values, principles and goals into economic and social development. I think that it’s already helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including disasters arising from human nature; and helping to improve society in ways that will benefit future generations. I think that the more it happens the better it will be for all people everywhere, now and in the future.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Oops! I see that the way I wrote that wasn’t clear. It isn’t about all people following Bahá’u’lláh. I’m thinking that for the best possibilities to happen for all people, part of what needs to happen is for some people in many neighborhoods and villages around the world to be learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions. I don’t have any idea how many localities it would need to be, but more than there are now. All the better if some people do the same, following other teachers, as long as it revolves around self improvement and community service with the aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere.

Thanks. To flip this this a bit. Wouldn't it make sense to say all people who follow bahuallah or a teacher for improving themselves?

I kinda get your point, but why just some?

Not all religions have prophet like people to follow. Do you think they are missing out on this?

 

[Jim]

Not all religions have prophet like people to follow. Do you think they are missing out on this?

I think that any program of training and practice that is motivated by some generous kind of love and willingness to give up some comforts and conveniences, and that revolves around self improvement and community service, with the aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere, will do a lot of good without doing much damage. I think that it’s indispensable for some of that to revolve around learning to follow Bahá’u’lláh and His House of Justice, specifically. I’m not sure that it’s indispensable for some of it to revolve around any other teacher in particular. I’m not sure that it isn’t.

 

[Jim]

Not all religions have prophet like people to follow. Do you think they are missing out on this?

I don’t know what to think about that. Maybe for most people, whatever teacher they’re following now is the best one for them to be following now. (Yes, Aupmanyav, that includes people who are their own gurus. Who isn’t?) I certainly think that many people who are following other kinds of teachers are doing better, for themselves and for the world, than many people who believe in prophets, including many Baha’is. Many of them might even be doing better than I am!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Update on my thoughts about this:

This strictly my own personal view. I’m not speaking for the Baha’i Faith or for any other Baha’is, and I could be misunderstanding what Bahá’u’lláh is saying. It looks to me like He’s saying that for the best possibilities to happen for all people, they need to follow His prescriptions, because of their love for the God that they see in Him. I’m not sure that will ever happen for all people. I’m not sure that it won’t. I think that the more it happens, the better it will be for all people everywhere.

Bahá’u’lláh says that He’s aiming for “the peace and tranquillity of the world and the advancement of its peoples.” From my study of His writings I think that relationships between all people and all societies will become more and more friendly, fair, fruitful and beneficial to all people everywhere. The way that people live their lives will bring out more and more of the best possibilities in all people and for all people, in society and in the world around us, including arts, crafts, sciences and services. I think that all that is already happening in some communities where some people are learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions. As I understand it, it revolves around self improvement and community service with the aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. People are studying and practicing, learning to help bring spiritual values, principles and goals into economic and social development. I think that it’s already helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including disasters arising from human nature; and helping to improve society in ways that will benefit future generations. I think that the more it happens the better it will be for all people everywhere, now and in the future.

I agree with Bahaullah's intent from a non-religious point of view. From a religious point of view, it seems like people have their own version of world peace. The religious view (god is the foundation of peace) is preventing people from having peace with people of all religions because they mix the two.

I personally like how The Buddha goes about world peace from a religious perspective. Outside of that, I see nothing wrong with it.

Would world peace also include no one dying?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

NOTE: This is in a non-debate forum. I’m not thinking that no one can disagree with me or disapprove of what I’m saying, just hoping that everyone will try to keep it friendly.

These are some personal ideas of my own about the role of the Baha’i prophet Baha’u’llah in helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and helping to improve the world for future generations. I’m not speaking for the Baha’i Faith or for any other Baha’is.

I think that people learning to follow Baha’u’llah because of their love for the God that they see in Him, continually trying to better understand His purposes and practicing together His prescriptions for individuals, institutions and communities, is helping now, today, to improve the lives of all people everywhere, and to improve the world for future generations. I think that it’s helping to reduce and counteract the damage from natural disasters including disasters arising from human nature, and it’s helping individuals and communities recover from disasters faster and better. I think that it will continue to do all that more and more as people learn to do it more.

My idea of how the world will improve includes more friendly and fair relationships between all people all around the world, without any of the lines of alienation and hardheartedness, including belief lines, that we see between people today. It includes bringing out the best possibilities in people and for people, in human civilization, and in the world around us. It includes the elimination of most or all kinds of cruelty, violence and oppression at all levels from individuals to nations and nation-sized alliances. It includes more and better of all the best in the arts, crafts, sciences and services that we see in the world today, with little or none of the harmful ways that we see them being used.

(edited to add the following)
Part of what Baha’is are learning to do, side by side with their neighbors, is training and practice for economic and social development that revolves around self improvement and community service, and is guided by spiritual values, principles and goals.

What? That Baha guy is unknown to the vast majority of the world. Baha'is are just a tiny little sect. So obviously he hasn't that much impact at all on the world. Most of the stuff you said are pipe dreams, anyway.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think that any program of training and practice that is motivated by some generous kind of love and willingness to give up some comforts and conveniences, and that revolves around self improvement and community service, with the aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere, will do a lot of good without doing much damage. I think that it’s indispensable for some of that to revolve around learning to follow Bahá’u’lláh and His House of Justice, specifically. I’m not sure that it’s indispensable for some of it to revolve around any other teacher in particular. I’m not sure that it isn’t.

From one perspective, I can see that. Of course it depends on whether that said person is interested in learning about Bahaullah. I'm not sure, though, what you're getting at since it is beneficial to learn about different religions in general. If any program training and practice that motivates generous kind of love, what is unique about bahaullah's view that you agree with compared to The Buddha, Wiccan, and non-religious views?

 

[Jim]

From one perspective, I can see that. Of course it depends on whether that said person is interested in learning about Bahaullah. I'm not sure, though, what you're getting at since it is beneficial to learn about different religions in general. If any program training and practice that motivates generous kind of love, what is unique about bahaullah's view that you agree with compared to The Buddha, Wiccan, and non-religious views?

I’ll need some time to ponder that. The only reason that I can think of now for me saying that is because I think that Bahá’u’lláh is saying that.

 

[Jim]

The religious view (god is the foundation of peace) is preventing people from having peace with people of all religions because they mix the two.

I agree. The idea of belief in a creator God who rules the universe as a prerequisite for peace and justice looks to me like it’s seriously impeding communication sometimes between Baha’is and other people.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I agree. The idea of belief in a creator God who rules the universe as a prerequisite for peace and justice looks to me like it’s seriously impeding communication sometimes between Baha’is and other people.

Yes. That's basically what the problem is. We're not disagreeing with world peace but the view it needs to have one god as foundation. Personally, I don't care for beliefs like that but I don't know any Baha'i in person to accuse him or her for wrong belief. Those I do it's more their behavior than their religion.

 

[Jim]

I'm not sure, though, what you're getting at since it is beneficial to learn about different religions in general. If any program training and practice that motivates generous kind of love, what is unique about bahaullah's view that you agree with compared to The Buddha, Wiccan, and non-religious views?

My reason for saying that it’s indispensable for some of it to revolve around following Bahá’u’lláh might be mostly because I think that “He says so.” One possible reason I see is because part of what is needed now, today, is some laws and social institutions that are only in His writings. Just now, saying that reminded me that I had to go back to Moses to find answers to some of my questions about the laws. I feel more confident now in thinking that it might be indispensable for some of it to revolve around other teachers.

Apart from all that, I think that part of what is needed are some divine powers and influences in the stories and scriptures of religions, and those might be stronger in the most recent one than in the others. For the best possibilities to happen for all people, we might need all the power we can get. I’m not sure that there’s any power in the older ones than isn’t available in the Baha’i ones, but I’m not sure that there isn’t. However that may be, I would be glad to see the same kind of training and practice revolving around other teachers, no matter if that’s indispensable or not.

 

[Windwalker]

From what I read, the ideal state of "world peace" for Bahais would be a theocracy, which is ironic as the faith originated in a country where a theocracy is currently established, a theocracy in which members of your admired faith are being persecuted badly. From this first-hand evidence, it should be clear that theocracies do anything but contribute to a better world. But maybe it is a "birth defect" of the Bahai faith, that both the this religion and its "mother religions" grew in a climate which favors theocracy so much that the self-declared "most progressive" religion just can't relinquish the concept of theocracy, which continues to prove itself as an obstacle to a "better world" day after day.

That was really well-stated. I have always struggled with this fixation on a prophet, who was basically just adopting emerging global-centric visions of the world of the day. It's nothing that postmodernity and its global vision doesn't see. So why the antiquated ideas about prophets and "Messengers", and whatnot?

The answer is context. This is the context. Thinking in antiquated theocratic terms. This will NEVER work to unite a modern world. Absolutely not. Unless, we lose the rational basis for our societies.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I think that the more it happens, the better it will be for all people everywhere.

Not true. Today Bahais are a handful, no one cares about them. Even with these small numbers, they try to hog the internet. If there are more of them, they would be even more vocal, more of them will say that all other religions are out-dated. The more it happens, the more will be the strife.

Most of the stuff you said are pipe dreams, anyway.

The pipe dream is that the whole world will become Bahai, all will have their noses cut and will see the Emperor's (Bahaollah's) new clothes.

I agree. The idea of belief in a creator God who rules the universe as a prerequisite for peace and justice looks to me like it’s seriously impeding communication sometimes between Baha’is and other people.

But that wont stop you from being a Bahai. I wonder why? Are there any other reasons?

The answer is context. This is the context. Thinking in antiquated theocratic terms. This will NEVER work to unite a modern world. Absolutely not. Unless, we lose the rational basis for our societies.

True, the answer is context. Bahaollah was born in the early part of 19th Century feudal Iran (1817 CE), studied only Arabic and Qur'an (that was enough in his time and place), did not know anything of science, never had any modern education; and so were the people who followed him. So, sure, he will talk about 7th Century stuff like 'One God', prophets and prophecies, sons, messengers, mahdis and manifestations; and would not know anything else.

Fat′h-Ali Shah Qajar, Shahanshah Khaqan (Emperor, Pivot of the World, 1772–1834)

 

[Link]

The Quran lays it down beautifully, say Mohammad is a forger and fake Prophet, still God would verify the truth with his words, and clarify the clear signs and annul the falsehood through his words. This means the Quran argues for Messengers and the household of the reminder regardless if Mohammad and his family is that instance. But when you reflect over the Quran, it's subtle majestic wonders, will prove itself and hence the family of the reminder it designated and paired with it.

One household of revelation after another, one replaces another, but regardless if Mohammad and his family were that guidance, it shows, the family of the reminder would be the structure by wisdom and clear signs.

And God shows it was his way in the past, and his way now, and so asks us to reflect and look for the reminder and it's designated family, and no doubt to me, Mohammad and his family is that. The wisdom of God sending Messengers applies to both fake and right Prophets, but believers, they know how God speaks.

Everyone can present their holy books, but I find the Quran incomparable in it's exalted majestic nature, the more I become familiar with it.

 

[Aupmanyav]

.. but regardless if Mohammad and his family were that guidance, ..
Everyone can present their holy books, but I find the Quran incomparable in it's exalted majestic nature, the more I become familiar with it.

Sure, you are a Muslim and a twelver. But it is your view. Others have different views.

 

[Jim]

What I’m saying here is strictly my own personal view. I’m not speaking for the Baha’i Faith or for any other Baha’is. Also, it is not about membership in the Baha’i community or about what Baha’is or any other people believe about God, Bahá’u’lláh or world peace. It’s about something that I think that people of all religions and outside of all of them are doing together now, today, in thousands of neighborhoods and villages around the world, that I think is helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. It’s training and practice for economic and social development that revolves around self improvement and community service, motivated by a generous kind of love and willingness to give up some comforts and conveniences, with the conscious aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations.

Some of it revolves around people learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions, but that doesn’t require believing anything that Baha’is believe about Bahá’u’lláh, about His God, or about world peace. I think that for the best possibilities to happen for all people, it’s indispensable for some of that training to revolve around Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions, but I would be glad for the same kind of training to be happening, revolving around other teachers or no teacher at all.

 

[Spirit of Light]

What I’m saying here is strictly my own personal view. I’m not speaking for the Baha’i Faith or for any other Baha’is. Also, it is not about membership in the Baha’i community or about what Baha’is or any other people believe about God, Bahá’u’lláh or world peace. It’s about something that I think that people of all religions and outside of all of them are doing together now, today, in thousands of neighborhoods and villages around the world, that I think is helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations. It’s training and practice for economic and social development that revolves around self improvement and community service, motivated by a generous kind of love and willingness to give up some comforts and conveniences, with the conscious aim and purpose of helping to improve the lives of all people everywhere and to improve the world for future generations.

Some of it revolves around people learning together to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and practice His prescriptions, but that doesn’t require believing anything that Baha’is believe about Bahá’u’lláh, about His God, or about world peace. I think that for the best possibilities to happen for all people, it’s indispensable for some of that training to revolve around Bahá’u’lláh’s purposes and prescriptions, but I would be glad for the same kind of training to be happening, revolving around other teachers or no teacher at all.

Do you see it more as if everyone followed what their chosen religious belief where it teach compassion and love and kindness for each other, that would be beneficial for the path you seaking? or do people learn to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s teaching so we follow that instead? I not sure i understand where you want to go, because in one way you say this tread is not about Baha`i or Bahá’u’lláh’s teaching, but in the same thread you say in a way it is? I get a bit confused

 

[Jim]

Do you see it more as if everyone followed what their chosen religious belief where it teach compassion and love and kindness for each other, that would be beneficial for the path you seaking? or do people learn to understand Bahá’u’lláh’s teaching so we follow that instead? I not sure i understand where you want to go, because in one way you say this tread is not about Baha`i or Bahá’u’lláh’s teaching, but in the same thread you say in a way it is? I get a bit confused

My ideas are always changing, sometimes even while I’m writing a post. I don’t know what to say to answer your question, that I didn’t already say in my post that you quoted.

 

[Spirit of Light]

My ideas are always changing, sometimes even while I’m writing a post. I don’t know what to say to answer your question, that I didn’t already say in my post that you quoted.

Thamk you @Jim Maybe your change of ideas is what made me confused