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Bahá'ís: why do you believe "Bahá'u'lláh" was the one promised in the Bayán?

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by cherileex, Jun 30, 2017.

  1. oldbadger

    oldbadger Skanky Old Mongrel!

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    Hi........
    Cherileex may not visit this forum much. The thread was first posted last year and Cherileex has only submitted 5 posts ever... :)

    I believe that Cherileex is a Babi or a Bayani. The two titles might be of the same faith possibly. Therefore, if I am correct, Cherileex would recognise the Bab as the prophet for this age.

    But I don't think that the Bab was very peaceful or kind to thlose not of his own following. :shrug:
     
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  2. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892 (Dhu'l Qa'dah 2, 1309 AH). He was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahjí.)

    Baha'u'llah died at Acre of Israel and was buried in the shrine located next to the Mansion of Bahji, which is located in Acre of Israel, which is about 200 miles away from Jerusalem.

    Notice what Christ Jesus had to say about Jerusalem in the book of Luke 13:33--" Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

    This meaning that no prophet shall die outside of Jerusalem.

    Now as for Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem, Christ Jesus thereby proving Baha'u'llah is a false prophet.

    The Prophets of God, either died a natural death or was stone to death by people, at Jerusalem.

    But here we find Baha'u'llah, died On 9 May 1892, Bahá'u'lláh contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, abated, and then finally resulted in his death on 29 May 1892.

    So it is that Baha'u'llah didn't die a natural death, as in dieing of old age, But by contracted a slight fever which grew steadily over the following days, which caused his death on May 29,1892.

    But yet Christ Jesus has said in Luke 13:33-34--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    34-- "O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets, and stonest them that are sent unto thee; how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not"

    So we find the Prophets died at Jerusalem, at the hands of the people in Jerusalem.

    Where as Baha'u'llah died by a fever that took his life 200 miles outside of Jerusalem. So Baha'u'llah didn't die by a natural death of old age or by the hands of people, But by a fever.

    Which again proves Baha'u'llah as a false prophet.

    For Christ Jesus did say in Luke 13:33--"Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem"

    That being outside of Jerusalem, which puts Baha'u'llah dieing 200 miles outside of Jerusalem as a false prophet.
     
    #22 Faithofchristian, Nov 22, 2018
    Last edited: Nov 22, 2018
  3. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Well this thread is just a sample what Baha'u'llah and Abdul'baha said would happen as the world struggles to find its unity under its One God; this quote says it all;

    "The Onslaught of All Peoples and Kindreds

    We have only to refer to the warnings uttered by ‘Abdu’l-Bahá in order to realize the extent and character of the forces that are destined to contest with God’s holy Faith. In the darkest moments of His life, under ‘Abdu’l-Ḥamíd’s régime, when He stood ready to be deported to the most inhospitable regions of Northern Africa, and at a time when the auspicious light of the Bahá’í Revelation had only begun to break upon the West, He, in His parting message to the cousin of the Báb, uttered these prophetic and ominous words: “How great, how very great is the Cause! How very fierce the onslaught of all the peoples and kindreds of the earth. Ere long shall the clamor of the multitude throughout Africa, throughout America, the cry of the European and of the Turk, the groaning of India and China, be heard from far and near. One and all, they shall arise with all their power to resist His Cause. Then shall the knights of the Lord, assisted by His grace from on high, strengthened by faith, aided by the power of understanding, and reinforced by the legions of the Covenant, arise and make manifest the truth of the verse: ‘Behold the confusion that hath befallen the tribes of the defeated!’”
    Stupendous as is the struggle which His words foreshadow, they also testify to the complete victory which the upholders of the Greatest Name are destined eventually to achieve. Peoples, nations, adherents of divers faiths, will jointly and successively arise to shatter its unity, to sap its force, and to degrade its holy name. They will assail not only the spirit which it inculcates, but the administration which is the channel, the instrument, the embodiment of that spirit. For as the authority with which Bahá’u’lláh has invested the future Bahá’í Commonwealth becomes more and more apparent, the fiercer shall be the challenge which from every quarter will be thrown at the verities it enshrines."

    Peace to be on all that visit this thread.

    Regards Tony
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Luke 13

    31 The same day there came certain of the Pharisees, saying unto him, Get thee out, and depart hence: for Herod will kill thee.

    32 And he said unto them, Go ye, and tell that fox, Behold, I cast out devils, and I do cures to day and to morrow, and the third day I shall be perfected.

    33 Nevertheless I must walk to day, and to morrow, and the day following: for it cannot be that a prophet perish out of Jerusalem.

    That does not prove anything, except that you cannot interpret the Bible correctly. That verse when read in context is about Jesus. Jesus was not talking about prophets in general. Jesus was talking about Himself.

    There is no way you are ever going to prove that Baha’u’llah was a false prophet by twisting Bible verses to mean what they do not mean, because Baha’u’llah was who He claimed to be, the Return of Christ and the Messiah. Sorry you don’t like it but you cannot change what God has ordained.
     
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  5. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    The fact that some Prophets died at Jerusalem does not mean that all Prophets will die at Jerusalem. The verse does not say that at all.

    Moreover, Jesus did not die in Jerusalem:

    The precise location of the crucifixion remains a matter of conjecture, but the biblical accounts indicate that it was outside the city walls of Jerusalem,[Jn. 19:20] [Heb. 13:12] accessible to passers-by[Mt. 27:39] [Mk. 15:21,29-30] and observable from some distance away.[Mk. 15:40] Eusebius identified its location only as being north of Mount Zion,[105] which is consistent with the two most popularly suggested sites of modern times. Crucifixion of Jesus - Wikipedia
     
  6. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    Baha'u'llah, is a false prophet according to what Christ Jesus has given in the book of Luke 13:33.
    Just because people can not handle it, does not mean anything.
     
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  7. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    When Jesus was including himself that no prophet perish outside of Jerusalem.

    Whether people like it or not, it's stands as is.
     
  8. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    Yet Jesus perished outside the walls of Jerusalem. :oops:
     
  9. Faithofchristian

    Faithofchristian Well-Known Member

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    But it was still in Jerusalem, now wasn't it.
    Whether outside the walls of Jerusalem or in Jerusalem it's self, it's was still at Jerusalem.
     
  10. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Well-Known Member

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    No, it was not INSIDE of Jerusalem, it was OUTSIDE. :D
     
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  11. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    Mithra was born of a rock, wasn't crucified, and didn't rise from the dead, and didn't atone for the sins of mankind. Where are you getting literally any of these ideas?
     
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  12. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

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    The Bab appointed the Bayani leader Subh-i Azal as his successor in his will. You can read the will here:

    The Primal Point’s Will and Testament

    These are the opening statements:

    • Name of Azal, testify that there is no God but I, the dearest beloved.

    • Then testify that there is no God but you, the victorious and permanent.

    It is clear from these words that the Bab considers Himself as God and then appoints Azal as the new God. Baha'u'llah had major problems with Azal and would refer to him using not very nice terms. I find it very unlikely that the person that categorically rejects the Bab's successor that the Bab has labelled as the Victorious and Permanent God in his will, could be the Promised one in the Bayan.
     
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  13. Musing Bassist

    Musing Bassist Well-Known Member

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    A "documentary" called Zeitgeist most likely.
     
  14. Shiranui117

    Shiranui117 Pronounced Shee-ra-noo-ee
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    I was afraid of that.
     
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  15. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    There is no doubt the Bab's Revelation was to prepare the way for Baha'u'llah and the Day of God, when peace and justice will prevail and our one God will be known.

    The Bayan was dedicated to Baha'u'llah.

    The Bab's Message was to show the dawn if a new age, that the promise had been fulfilled. The doctrine that no Messenger would appear after Muhammad had so blinded Persia, that even when many accepted the Bab, they could not see a separation from the Old Laws.

    The turmoil created is recorded and many perished, but the 'One Whom God will make Manifest' was Baha'u'llah. It was Baha'u'llah that arranged the recovery if tye Bab's remains and pointed to the spot on Mt Carmel where they now lay.

    It is plain ad the Noon day Sun it was Baha'u'llah that fulfilled and then carried the Message of the Bab to the entire planet.

    Regards Tony
     
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  16. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

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    There is only one major flaw. Baha'u'llah ditched Subh-i Azal the Successor of the Bab that the Bab had specifically labelled as God in His will. Basically Baha'u'llah ditched God, effectively leaving him with no authority nor credibility. Yes it all sounds ridiculous: how can someone appoint another person to be God and how can a third party strip that person of his godhood then claim that Godhood for himself?!!! Don't ask me how this happens, It's what the Bab wrote in his will and how Baha'u'llah treated the new God!
     
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  17. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Good to have somebody countering the propaganda machine. Best wishes. As an observer I see two sides saying 'I'm right and you're wrong', but that's totally better than one side having free rein to say whatever they want, and never being countered on it. So yeah.
     
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  18. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    There is that story and then the correct explanation.

    The character and complete lack of spiritual understanding of Subh-i Azal shows that he was not the 'One whom God would make Manifest'.

    Allah tests His servants and Subh-i Azal was but a temporary veil to sort the pure hearted from the self conceited.

    Subh-i Azal faded into naught, The One whom God did make Manifest, Baha'u'llah, has brought the great and dreadful Day of the Lord.

    Regards Tony
     
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  19. Tony Bristow-Stagg

    Tony Bristow-Stagg Ocean Immersion
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    Good to see you Vinayaka.

    I hope you are well and all is good. Have you got the top soil sorted out?

    I have my building to lock up stage now.

    Regards Tony
     
  20. spirit_of_dawn

    spirit_of_dawn Active Member

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    :facepalm:

    I provided sources, like the Bab's own will and based my statements on hard evidence. On the other you have provided nothing to back up your claims. When you provide no evidence to back up a claim, that claim becomes a mere story. You're the story teller here not me.
     
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