Back to Catholicism?

[Theist]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted here. I have been involved in a Pagan group for the last few years. I had always been interested in ancient history and ancient mythology and thought Paganism would be more fulfilling than Catholicism. The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them. There is also the religious doctrine, which I believed was not accepting of gay people among others. Magic and the Occult was interesting, but that is not the primary reason I was drawn to Paganism.

But there is no denying that the occult is a large part of Paganism, and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something dark about the whole thing. I don't think I can be a part of it anymore. That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends. So the question is, do I go back to Catholicism? The issues I found to be problematic are still there in Catholicism, despite the new Pope. But I went to a Catholic Mass recently, ad I just got the feeling that this is where I belong. It is just a feeling but it is a strong one. Otherwise I can consider other religions, but I am not sure how much time I have left, and I have already been initiated into the religion in Baptism, and had my confirmation. I have to get going, I work the midnight shift, but what do you all think about this?

 

[Alison Wonderland]

I'd suggest putting your faith in the scientific method.

 

[columbus]

Greetings @Theist .
Welcome to RF.

Normally such a big issue is more than introduction threads are meant for. Normally it's more just meet and greet.
But I have a good deal to say on your issue. I'm a gay nontheist, grew up very Catholic, have a partner of over 20 years. To say I have a problem with some of their beliefs is a dramatic understatement. But there is also a lot about my local parish I cherish and I enjoy participating in. I would be happy to share this with you, if you want me to. It can be a great spiritual home and you don't have to believe everything they claim to teach verbatim. Almost nobody else does.
Tom

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Just be a liberal Catholic who disagrees with the Vatican's official stance on LGBT issues. There's millions of us, and I'm one of them. Find a parish that leans towards being more inclusive. They're out there, as it largely depends on where you live and the attitude of the individual priest. Don't let non-essential issues keep you from where you feel you belong.

 

[Ingledsva]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted here. I have been involved in a Pagan group for the last few years. I had always been interested in ancient history and ancient mythology and thought Paganism would be more fulfilling than Catholicism. The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them. There is also the religious doctrine, which I believed was not accepting of gay people among others. Magic and the Occult was interesting, but that is not the primary reason I was drawn to Paganism.

But there is no denying that the occult is a large part of Paganism, and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something dark about the whole thing. I don't think I can be a part of it anymore. That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends. So the question is, do I go back to Catholicism? The issues I found to be problematic are still there in Catholicism, despite the new Pope. But I went to a Catholic Mass recently, ad I just got the feeling that this is where I belong. It is just a feeling but it is a strong one. Otherwise I can consider other religions, but I am not sure how much time I have left, and I have already been initiated into the religion in Baptism, and had my confirmation. I have to get going, I work the midnight shift, but what do you all think about this?

The occult does not have to be a huge part of paganism. Research the different Pagan and Heathen groups until you find one that matches you.

By the way - I was raised Catholic, and I found it very Pagan, - and it is.

High holy days in hypnotic trance. LOL. Candles everywhere, wafting heady incense, and chanting putting you into that trance state. The magic - transmutation of bread and wine into body and blood. Holy days related to the Sun, - Equinoxes, etc.

However, I agree with you. I couldn't stay in a religion that still treated women and gay people the way they do.

*

 

[Rival]

Have you tried other monotheisms? Zoroastrianism? Judaism/Noachidism? Theism or Deism?

 

[Rival]

That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends.

If they are true friends, you will not need new ones.

 

[Islington]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted here. I have been involved in a Pagan group for the last few years. I had always been interested in ancient history and ancient mythology and thought Paganism would be more fulfilling than Catholicism. The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them. There is also the religious doctrine, which I believed was not accepting of gay people among others. Magic and the Occult was interesting, but that is not the primary reason I was drawn to Paganism.

But there is no denying that the occult is a large part of Paganism, and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something dark about the whole thing. I don't think I can be a part of it anymore. That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends. So the question is, do I go back to Catholicism? The issues I found to be problematic are still there in Catholicism, despite the new Pope. But I went to a Catholic Mass recently, ad I just got the feeling that this is where I belong. It is just a feeling but it is a strong one. Otherwise I can consider other religions, but I am not sure how much time I have left, and I have already been initiated into the religion in Baptism, and had my confirmation. I have to get going, I work the midnight shift, but what do you all think about this?

Hey,

maybe you felt home because you knew the rituals and whatnot. One can get pretty nostalgic when they come back to a place they left, long ago.

You don't have to agree with each and every teaching of whatever your religion is/will be. Think of these as an industrial mold and yourself as the work of an artisan-if everyone was made out of the same mold, what a waste it would be! No flaws, no difference, no uniqueness!
Neither should you be the perfect follower who will blindly follow what your guru, priest, guide will tell you. Follow at the best of your capacities but with careful discrimination ; keeping your eyes and mind open.

No human is perfect and they know that. That's why confessions and penances are here for, in Catholicism.

There are also scholars in Vatican who are, every day, studying the texts, their meaning, interpretation, how it should adapt to the society as time passes.

On the other side, there must have been a reason why you went with Paganism, think about it.


Most importantly, though, no one but yourself should tell you which religion you should follow.


So I would suggest that you take some time quietly and think not about the traditions and actions of your religious group, but about your view of God(s).

Do some research if need be but first of foremost research inside you.

Think about your core beliefs, follow your heart, your instinct, not your intellect. In your heart lies your true and gentle nature, not bothered by societal or religious practices.

Note what you find and bring your intellect in the dance. Compare with Paganism and Catholicism. Re-learn what you have learned of the core of both religions. Take as many sources as possible, ask as many people as needed but don't remember to ask your heart first. Don't be discouraged by contradictions that you may find or if you lack some things.

When you have made your choice, that is when you start learning about practices, rituals, rules, what's expected from you and from your religion.


Just remember : you aren't something made out of an industrial mold or a robot cannot think by itself. So never loose sight or stop listening to what your innermost instinct tells you.

 

[HonestJoe]

but what do you all think about this?

You write as if you have to be a member of some religion or other. If you’re not feeling enough draw to really commit to any given religion, why (re)join any?

I’d suggest you need to take a wider view of what you’re actually looking to achieve and gain from all of this and look wider than just religions to fulfil those needs and desires. It’s like feeling obliged to choose a football team to support when you’d really enjoy watching baseball more.

 

[omega2xx]

I'd suggest putting your faith in the scientific method.

Not if your looking for God.

 

[shunyadragon]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted here. I have been involved in a Pagan group for the last few years. I had always been interested in ancient history and ancient mythology and thought Paganism would be more fulfilling than Catholicism. The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them. There is also the religious doctrine, which I believed was not accepting of gay people among others. Magic and the Occult was interesting, but that is not the primary reason I was drawn to Paganism.

But there is no denying that the occult is a large part of Paganism, and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something dark about the whole thing. I don't think I can be a part of it anymore. That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends. So the question is, do I go back to Catholicism? The issues I found to be problematic are still there in Catholicism, despite the new Pope. But I went to a Catholic Mass recently, ad I just got the feeling that this is where I belong. It is just a feeling but it is a strong one. Otherwise I can consider other religions, but I am not sure how much time I have left, and I have already been initiated into the religion in Baptism, and had my confirmation. I have to get going, I work the midnight shift, but what do you all think about this?

Interesting problem that many people face, but unfortunately it is mine field of egocentric pragmatism, desire for a sense of belonging, fear of the consequences of choosing this belief system or that best answers your fears (Pascal's Wager).

(1) Both faiths, as are many older religions and beliefs, are based ancient mythology, and plagued with notions of 'our way is the only,' and especially the Roman Church (Catholic?) claims that only the sincere believers are saved, and the rest are barbecue for Satin. The claim of being Catholic means the claim of being THE universal belief, but considering that vast claims of different churches and religions, this claim is highly problematic.

(2) Accusations of being a cult or occult is common on all sides of the fence including many accusing the the Roman Church and affiliated secret societies.

(3) You feel your maybe running out of time, but in reality this is a fear based approach and rarely has a good result.

(4) The egocentric question whether one agrees with individual teaching of any given belief should the last consideration for the search.

(5) Your 'sincere' quest for the universal without preconditions should be your goal, versus the problematic selective approach looking for which faith one is most comfortable.

 

[shunyadragon]

Not if your looking for God.

Problem from the fallible human perspective is that which God is one looking for. By far most people cling to the God of their peers, which is a problem since there are so many different Gods people looking for, and finding.

Diogenes is sill looking.

 

[metis]

The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them.

You don't have to agree with them.

About 25 years ago, I was talking with a Catholic priest from Belfast, N.I., and he mentioned that the church is like the Roman traffic cop at an intersection pointing out who goes next, whereas many, if not most, will still do their own thing. However, if there's a conflict, his value is that (s)he's there to help sort things out.

His point is that the church has its teachings based on how they interpret what Jesus and the apostles taught, but it is up to the parishioner to ultimately decide what (s)he should do because, after all, the parishioner is ultimately responsible for their own fate. And, much like the traffic cop, it's always possible for the church leaders to be wrong on some things, and they well know that.

As a non-Catholic and a non-Christian, I feel very comfortable at my wife's church, including both enjoying and appreciating what the church is doing.

BTW, the choir director at my wife's church is also gay, and he's worked there for about 20 years now. My point is that none of the priests nor the board of directors in the church drummed him out, and I would have been terribly surprised if they had.

 

[idav]

Hi, this is the first time I have posted here. I have been involved in a Pagan group for the last few years. I had always been interested in ancient history and ancient mythology and thought Paganism would be more fulfilling than Catholicism. The problem I have with Catholicism is there is a series of beliefs you are expected to believe and I am not sure if I agree with all of them. There is also the religious doctrine, which I believed was not accepting of gay people among others. Magic and the Occult was interesting, but that is not the primary reason I was drawn to Paganism.

But there is no denying that the occult is a large part of Paganism, and I can't put my finger on it, but there is something dark about the whole thing. I don't think I can be a part of it anymore. That is a shame because most of my friends are in paganism so I will have to make new friends. So the question is, do I go back to Catholicism? The issues I found to be problematic are still there in Catholicism, despite the new Pope. But I went to a Catholic Mass recently, ad I just got the feeling that this is where I belong. It is just a feeling but it is a strong one. Otherwise I can consider other religions, but I am not sure how much time I have left, and I have already been initiated into the religion in Baptism, and had my confirmation. I have to get going, I work the midnight shift, but what do you all think about this?

I really like visiting the local Universal Unitarian church. Catholicism can be pretty dogmatic about paganism but certainly no reason you can't take a lot away from Catholicism, especially as pagan like they really are. UU people were of all faiths.

 

[columbus]

I really like visiting the local Universal Unitarian church. Catholicism can be pretty dogmatic about paganism but certainly no reason you can't take a lot away from Catholicism, especially as pagan like they really are. UU people were of all faiths.

I would definitely consider this as an option worth exploring.
I was a member of the local UU Fellowship for many years. I can tell you for a fact that the single largest demographic in this regard was ex-Catholic. Of course, the individual congregations vary hugely. Things in your area might be extremely different. And the services tend to be completely devoid of the sort of liturgical theater that you appear drawn towards.
YMMV.
Tom

 

[shunyadragon]

You don't have to agree with them.

No, but you need to embrace the basics to justify membership

About 25 years ago, I was talking with a Catholic priest from Belfast, N.I., and he mentioned that the church is like the Roman traffic cop at an intersection pointing out who goes next, whereas many, if not most, will still do their own thing. However, if there's a conflict, his value is that (s)he's there to help sort things out.

His point is that the church has its teachings based on how they interpret what Jesus and the apostles taught, but it is up to the parishioner to ultimately decide what (s)he should do because, after all, the parishioner is ultimately responsible for their own fate. And, much like the traffic cop, it's always possible for the church leaders to be wrong on some things, and they well know that.

This a fine nice, warm and comfortable approach to the Roman Church, but not in touch with the reality and history of the church.

As a non-Catholic and a non-Christian, I feel very comfortable at my wife's church, including both enjoying and appreciating what the church is doing.

BTW, the choir director at my wife's church is also gay, and he's worked there for about 20 years now. My point is that none of the priests nor the board of directors in the church drummed him out, and I would have been terribly surprised if they had.

Being comfortable with 'hanging out' at church is nice, and soothing to ones desire for a 'sense of belonging,' but a true commitment to belief should a more sincere and honest investigation and if one believes a commitment to the church.

 

[shunyadragon]

I like the UU and the fellowship, and their belief system allows for the diversity of human belief on the humanist basis.

I am a Baha'i, but even this belief remains open to question, because I am a Socratic skeptic and every belief is open to question. Being comfortable with one's belief is like numbing anesthesia.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This probably would've been better to have been posted in the Catholic DIR. The OP states that they feel at home with Catholic rituals, but have a problem with the Vatican's stance on LGBT issues. Then we have a bunch of people encouraging the OP to seek outside of Catholicism or not to bother with religion at all. That's rather confusing and I don't think it's helpful, especially since the OP apparently recently been Baptized and Confirmed in the Catholic Church. There's no need to throw the baby out with the bathwater OP, feel free to message me because I have struggled with the Vatican's stances on LGBT issues, but have reconciled them with myself and my reality.

 

[metis]

This a fine nice, warm and comfortable approach to the Roman Church, but not in touch with the reality and history of the church.

All religious institutions evolve, and the RCC is one of them, and that's the "reality".

Being comfortable with 'hanging out' at church is nice, and soothing to ones desire for a 'sense of belonging,' but a true commitment to belief should a more sincere and honest investigation and if one believes a commitment to the church.

There's an old saying that if two people completely agree, then only one of them is actually doing the thinking.

The point is that any thinking person is likely to have areas of disagreement, or at least questioning, within any institution they may attend, including religious. The RCC is more built on the Roman model that I mentioned in a previous post than on some sort of iron-clad "believe this or else!" approach. I have found far more suppression of free thought in most Protestant denominations, such as the one I grew up in, than in my wife's RCC.

 

[metis]

I like the UU and the fellowship, and their belief system allows for the diversity of human belief on the humanist basis.

But the same thing is found in the RCC but is handled in a different way-- per my last post. The church is teaching what it thinks is right but allows individual discernment as long as no conflict with others occurs [see post #13].