Ayn Rand's Legacy as a Philosopher

[Sunstone]

The question of whether or not Ayn Rand was a philosopher has come up as a side-issue in another thread.

Personally, the question strikes me as rather unnecessary. Rand took pride in calling herself a "philosopher". Why not allow her to call herself a philosopher? The term "philosopher" is hardly important in America -- a nation that is roughly as philosophically sophisticated as a convent of nuns is sexually sophisticated, and quite proud of it.

On the other hand, here are some questions that I believe are far and away more fruitful and interesting than the question of whether or not Rand was "properly" a philosopher.

1) Did Rand make any original contributions to any branch of philosophy?

2) Did Rand make any contributions to any branch of philosophy that influenced other philosophers?

3) How do Rand's contributions and influence -- assuming she had any -- compare to the contributions and influence of prominent American philosophers such a C.S. Peirce, William James, John Dewey, Walter Kaufmann, Richard Rorty, and John Rawls?

4) Does Rand have any significant influence beyond America's borders? Is she a world-class philosopher or is she merely a local American philosopher?​

I think if you were to answer all four of those questions honestly and fairly, your answers would go far in placing Rand's legacy in perspective and in context within the 2,600 year old Western philosophical tradition.

 

[Windwalker]

Investment Bankers read her like a Bible. I think that says enough.

 

[Sunstone]

Investment Bankers read her like a Bible. I think that says enough.

I didn't know that. Of course, being read by bankers does not normally imply one is of any particular philosophical consequence. It does raise a question about her popularity with the American public, though. There used to be a billionaire who would periodically buy 50,000 copies of her books at a time to keep her on the bestseller lists. I heard he did it for years, but I have forgotten is name now.

When I read Atlas Shrugged and a couple of her essays at 15, I thought she was brilliant, but before I was 20, I had both the life experience and the education to know she was unrealistic and impractical.

These days, I do have a small handful of female friends who tell me that they found reading The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged "liberating" because it was the first time in their lives anyone told them that they did NOT have to put everyone else first and themselves last -- which is what they had been raised to do. I've always been grateful to Rand for that.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The term "philosopher" is hardly important in America -- a nation that is roughly as philosophically sophisticated as a convent of nuns is sexually sophisticated.

Alot of terms don't seem important but it seems they are. The idea that everyone is an expert and the average joe's opinion is equally worthy of consideration leads to some serious implications outside of even philosophy, such as medical care in general where people want to diagnose stuff (especially mental health), in the world of law where there has been an increase of self-representation, and science as a whole where it's a war trying to get rid of Creationism, largely because terms and concepts like "theory," it turns out they can mean an awful lot.

 

[Sunstone]

Alot of terms don't seem important but it seems they are. The idea that everyone is an expert and the average joe's opinion is equally worthy of consideration leads to some serious implications outside of even philosophy, such as medical care in general where people want to diagnose stuff (especially mental health), in the world of law where there has been an increase of self-representation, and science as a whole where it's a war trying to get rid of Creationism, largely because terms and concepts like "theory," it turns out they can mean an awful lot.

That's a good point, Wolf. I guess in an ideal world, you would have Americans well enough educated in philosophy to know what the term means in a formal or historical sense and to use it correctly. Rand might not be considered a philosopher then -- or at least not much of one. But we do not live in a perfect world. For better or worse, Americans are typically too ignorant of philosophy to see much use or value for it, let alone agree on some common standards for what makes someone a philosopher.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

But we do not live in a perfect world.

And I'm a stubborn Aspie Irish gal.

 

[Sunstone]

You know, if Ayn Rand's family had not had their property confiscated by the Bolsheviks, Rand would most likely have not wished to become a philosopher in order to pay them back for their injustice to her and hers.

In that case, I think she would have more thoroughly pursued her talent for writing medieval morality plays. She would today be known to us -- not as a philosopher -- but as an author of women's romance novels specializing in rape porn. That was her kink, you know. Rand liked being raped and thought all women wanted to be raped. Perfect attitude for a steamy romance writer!

 

[Cooky]

Alot of terms don't seem important but it seems they are.

 

[sun rise]

My knowledge of her writings is superficial. But I did enjoy and agree with this:

a nation that is roughly as philosophically sophisticated as a convent of nuns is sexually sophisticated, and quite proud of it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

People think it doesn't matter. Turns out when people take the words of people who are experts in fields that aren't things like pathology, immunology, biology, and medicine get taken as experts in that field when they say vaccines cause autism. Rand gets credit and attention, people think she's a philosopher, and if she's any sort of philosopher she's a pee-wee t-ball league player. Bill Nye isn't a scientist, Dr. Phil isn't a psychologist, and Rand isn't a philosopher.

 

[Ellen Brown]

I think that she is awful.

 

[Sunstone]

I think that she is awful.

Awful? Compared to what? Donald Trump? Rand -- unlike Trump -- has done some good (in addition to the mess she's made). I have a few female friends that she inspired to free themselves from some crazy ideas about the "proper place" for women in this word. Rand wasn't a very bright bulb, and she wasn't very well educated, but she did do some good.

At least that's how I see her. Your mileage might vary.

 

[LuisDantas]

Investment Bankers read her like a Bible. I think that says enough.

That is certainly an interesting thing to know. It should however be complemented IMO by awareness of who else sees fit to read her and who does not.

Also, your wording is interesting. Ayn Rand strikes me as the kind of writer that brings interesting ideas to the fore, but those ideas are of the sort that needs a lot of careful scrutinity before they are given much leeway.

In that sense, yeah, I suppose that her works are a lot like the Bible: they require a lot of discernment in order not to lead people dangerously stray, and very often they are not subjected to that very necessary measure.

In a nutshell, she strikes me as an author that devotes a lot of attention to the importance of self-expression but not necessarily nearly enough to the significance of personal responsibility. I would almost say that she strongly hints that she never quite believed that other people existed for real.

Writers like her always remind me of the myth of Cocagne - the promised land where everything jumps through hoops in order to promote our personal convenience and comfort. A great concept for exercises of wish fulfillment, not nearly so great for serious goal pursuing.

These days, I do have a small handful of female friends who tell me that they found reading The Fountainhead or Atlas Shrugged "liberating" because it was the first time in their lives anyone told them that they did NOT have to put everyone else first and themselves last -- which is what they had been raised to do. I've always been grateful to Rand for that.

A couple of other authors (not necessarily ones that are usually described as philosophers or would even welcome such a descriptor) come to mind. They, too, seem to at some level describe Cocagne when one would expect some form of real world. But there is a place for using such tools in order to promote self-appreciation and responsible boldness.

 

[Sunstone]

People think it doesn't matter. Turns out when people take the words of people who are experts in fields that aren't things like pathology, immunology, biology, and medicine get taken as experts in that field when they say vaccines cause autism. Rand gets credit and attention, people think she's a philosopher, and if she's any sort of philosopher she's a pee-wee t-ball league player. Bill Nye isn't a scientist, Dr. Phil isn't a psychologist, and Rand isn't a philosopher.

Wolf, I think when you say, "Rand was no philosopher", you are doing little more than confusing most RFers -- especially us Americans -- because this is not a very philosophically oriented forum and Americans especially are not a philosophical people. Please allow me to suggest that -- instead of saying "Rand was no philosopher" you say "Rand was not a creative, original thinker". "Creative, original thinker" is close enough to "philosopher" for government work (as they say) and I think it better communicates to the Forum audience one of Rand's key weaknesses. Add that she also had an understanding of human nature, science, and history rivaled by a turnip, and you pretty much have captured what you yourself mean by "she was not a philosopher".

 

[Sunstone]

Rand would have made a decent associate professor of logic. She was pretty good at the basics and could have easily taught introductory and mid-level university courses. I think that that was her main strength as a thinker. But she fell far short of contributing anything original to the field.

 

[Sunstone]

I don't think you can understand so-called "objectivism" without grasping that it is first, foremost, and above all an angry, bitter, emotional attack on the Bolsheviks who stole Rand's family property when Rand was about 12 years old. Rand was not a creative thinker. Objectivism is "created" mostly be taking Bolshevik ideology of the 1920s and reversing it. Basically, Rand was a reactionary.

Most likely the great conservative William F. Buckley was right when he said Rand's one and only original idea was the notion that to inherit unearned wealth -- as most of today's millionaires and billionaires have done -- can be terribly corrupting in a moral or psychological sense.

 

[Ellen Brown]

Awful? Compared to what? Donald Trump? Rand -- unlike Trump -- has done some good (in addition to the mess she's made). I have a few female friends that she inspired to free themselves from some crazy ideas about the "proper place" for women in this word. Rand wasn't a very bright bulb, and she wasn't very well educated, but she did do some good.

At least that's how I see her. Your mileage might vary.

I might have her confused with someone else? I did read a bit about her but it didn't trigger anything.

 

[Sunstone]

Americans are an extraordinary people in so many ways, and I confess I love us. But that does not mean I fail to see at least some of our sins.

In erotic dance, Americans prefer the inauthentic, cheap, gaudy stripper with the artificial breasts and heavy make up to anything beautiful.

In hamburgers, we prefer the highly processed, additive-rich, fat-laden McDonald's hamburger to fresh, lean, hormone-free beef.

In religion, at least 40% of us prefer the Evangelical megachurch pastor/con-artist to the quiet and honest Christian minister.

And in political and social "philosophy" we prefer Rush Limbaugh to Edmund Burke, and Ayn Rand to John Rawls.

 

[Valjean]

The first Rand work I read was her short novella Anthem, when I was maybe 16. I found it inspiring and very thought provoking, but it was Atlas Shrugged made her agenda clear: unfettered competition, every man for himself and devil take the hindmost. Government with no responsibility for the general welfare, and general prosperity the inevitable result of universal selfishness' invisible hand.
It's a paean to unregulated capitalism.

Rand, whatever her philosophical bona fides, is a social contract denier.

 

[Valjean]

Americans are an extraordinary people in so many ways, and I confess I love us. But that does not mean I fail to see at least some of our sins.

In erotic dance, Americans prefer the inauthentic, cheap, gaudy stripper with the artificial breasts and heavy make up to anything beautiful.

In hamburgers, we prefer the highly processed, additive-rich, fat-laden McDonald's hamburger to fresh, lean, hormone-free beef.

In religion, at least 40% of us prefer the Evangelical megachurch pastor/con-artist to the quiet and honest Christian minister.

And in political and social "philosophy" we prefer Rush Limbaugh to Edmund Burke, and Ayn Rand to John Rawls.

Alas, many of the political aristocracy seem to favor rand's unregulated capitalism over Rawls' fairness.