Avi's Spiritual and Religious Journey

[Akivah]

You don't care ? Why are you here speaking to us if you don't care ?

It isn't nice to take my response out of context. I don't care how many time the universe was/is created nor how the actual process of creation took place.

You seem like a good guy to me Akivah. But you are much more literalist than I. G-d's message comes to us in the form of how we relate to other wo/men and our environment. G-d does not tell us about creation. We are learning about creation through logical deduction and induction. Any other way doesn't work, it will fail.

Of course, I'm a good guy. Just ask me.

G-d has lots of messages to us about relating with people and our environment. None of that has any relevance as to how G-d created the universe.

Thank you for joining me on my search. I hope we can learn from each other. Do you know I was born a Conservative Jew and switched to reform about 20 years ago ?

No. And did you know that I was raised Reform and swiched to Conservative about 15 years ago?

 

[Akivah]

I'm with the majority. There are plenty of places to debate about with others about our religion. It's nice to have a place where we can just talk about Judaism. Avi, why are you against us having a place of our own?

 

[RabbiO]

Do you know I was born a Conservative Jew and switched to reform about 20 years ago ?

As I pointed out to you some time ago on another forum, you were not born a Conservative Jew.

One can be born a Jew, but that designation doesn't come with adjectives like Orthodox, Conservative, Reconstructionist or Reform.

 

[CMike]

So you are saying that the State of Israel is an integral part of Judaism?

How so? Is it being mentioned in the Tanakh or Talmud?


There is a difference between the State of Israel and Eretz Israel.

Yes it is. G-D pointed it out to Avraham in Genesis, along with what the borders should be.

The whole five books of Moses, is from the beginning of time to the journey to Israel.

It's also almost in every jewish prayer.

 

[CMike]

So, you're anti-money?

Good point.

 

[CMike]

I'm with the majority. There are plenty of places to debate about with others about our religion. It's nice to have a place where we can just talk about Judaism. Avi, why are you against us having a place of our own?

Similar question.

Why are you for your position?

 

[Flankerl]

Yes it is. G-D pointed it out to Avraham in Genesis, along with what the borders should be.

The whole five books of Moses, is from the beginning of time to the journey to Israel.

It's also almost in every jewish prayer.

I find it incredibly unorthodox to believe that the secular state of Israel is in any way the prophesied Israel that is mentioned in the Tanakh.

Also this would mean that it was achieved by the Moshiach. Who by that logic would be the United Nations.

 

[CMike]

I find it incredibly unorthodox to believe that the secular state of Israel is in any way the prophesied Israel that is mentioned in the Tanakh.

Also this would mean that it was achieved by the Moshiach. Who by that logic would be the United Nations.

Really? Where does it say that jews can only live in Israel when the moshiach comes? I must have missed that verse.

And Israel is absolutely the same state that G-D gave to the jews.

 

[Flankerl]

Really? Where does it say that jews can only live in Israel when the moshiach comes? I must have missed that verse.

And Israel is absolutely the same state that G-D gave to the jews.

Ok so where is this fun (almost) secular State of Israel being mentioned?

And no quoting the borders of Israel after the moshiach did his stuff wont work as we both agree that he wasnt here yet. Except of course if you think the UN is the moshiach. Though that might make for a weird religious position.

 

[CMike]

Ok so where is this fun (almost) secular State of Israel being mentioned?

And no quoting the borders of Israel after the moshiach did his stuff wont work as we both agree that he wasnt here yet. Except of course if you think the UN is the moshiach. Though that might make for a weird religious position.

I answered this question already.

Avraham was told by G-D where it would be.

Where exactly did he mention will only occur after the messiach comes?

King David and Solomon ruled in Israel.

The five books of Moses is from the beginning to the point of getting to Israel.

Also, almost every jewish prayer includes Israel.