Avert World War Three By Speaking The Same Language ...

[SunMessenger]

This may seem a little difficult to digest so I recommend a deep breath before reading it. It is not very Christian like but it may be necessary...

When I read a report that Enriched Uranium had been found in Iran I was not surprised by the report. It is late in coming . These are wealthy nations controlled by extremist. I am sure they have been working on this program for a long time. In our country we spread the wealth around a lot more than in these dictatorships. I am sure people have starved to death while resources were and are diverted to war and the bomb. First we must learn to conquer these nations when they attack first and then leave the mess for them to clean up. It is a consequence of the war caused by them. This bog down in Iraq is just a ridiculous atrocity, leading to the needless loss of American lives on a daily basis. We intended to get rid of a dangerous regime, SUPPOSEDLY. Well once all the big boys were either killed or captured then it was time to get out . Time to leave giving a strong message to other countries not to even consider any aggression against us or our allies. The message being we will come quickly, cut out the cancers and leave just as quickly and let you fix the mess as a consequence. Why did the United States ever think they could force political or social or even religious will on any other group of people. Why must we bomb to destroy the enemy and then think we have to clean it all up and fix everything when we are done. Then like an abusive parent when the vicious beating was all said and done we say let me kiss that better for you. What sense is this. What sense is it at all. Let them kiss their own wounds better and clean up the structural mess that was created by their own actions . That is where the lesson will be learned. Tell Iran clear and simple launch a nuclear device anywhere in the world and before it reaches its destination ten times as many, that are ten times as powerful, will be launched at you. Say it and mean it. That is the language they will understand . God forbid if that day comes ,but if it does ,do not rush in and try to kiss anything better. I have many religious forecasts for this situation but it is not time to release them . I hate to say it but the time for that could be upon us in a literal flash... Please Pray For Peace ...What Do You Think The Next Move Should Be ???I

 

[sparc872]

Whoa buddy. There are plenty of reasons why we are still in Iraq. Namely, had we gone in, bombed, took out Sadaam and then left, there would be any number of extremist groups willing to take his place. The people of the country can not be held accountable for the actions of their dictatorial leadership. That's like saying that we here in the US should all be punished for the actions of G Dub himself.

I am sure they have been working on this program for a long time.

Are you going on gut feelings? Do you have any evidence to back this up or are you just running off with your emotions?

In our country we spread the wealth around a lot more than in these dictatorships.

Well, we don't stock it all up in the government if that's what you mean. America has one of the highest splits between the rich and poor of all the industrialized nations in the world.

I am sure people have starved to death while resources were and are diverted to war and the bomb.

So what is so different than America? Look at our numbers of homeless people, our sick and elderly that die on a regular basis while the government spends all of its money on the Pentagon.

12 million kids in poverty

Pentagon budget - 400 billion a year
children health care - 40 billion a year

'Axis of evil' war budget - less than 10 billion combined

First we must learn to conquer these nations when they attack first and then leave the mess for them to clean up. It is a consequence of the war caused by them.

Since when does a preemptive strike from us mean that the other country caused the war?

Time to leave giving a strong message to other countries not to even consider any aggression against us or our allies.

Haha...we still have allies?

The message being we will come quickly, cut out the cancers and leave just as quickly and let you fix the mess as a consequence.

That's a hell of a surgeon. "I'll come in and remove the tumor, but I'll leave you unstitched and bleading on the table...good luck"

 

[SunMessenger]

Whoa buddy. There are plenty of reasons why we are still in Iraq. Namely, had we gone in, bombed, took out Sadaam and then left, there would be any number of extremist groups willing to take his place. The people of the country can not be held accountable for the actions of their dictatorial leadership. That's like saying that we here in the US should all be punished for the actions of G Dub himself.

That is the problem. We do not allow these countries the opportunity to fix their own problems. No one came to the aid of The United States during our war for seperation from England... Why should we be punished for the one you call G Dub if you defend his actions in Iraq you defend him. If he did not misrepresent Iraqs capabilities we would have never entered in the first place. Are You saying the end justifies the means ?



Are you going on gut feelings? Do you have any evidence to back this up or are you just running off with your emotions?

Commonsense would lead anyone to that conclusion since weapons grade uranium requires about 90 percent enriched product. Not an easy thing to learn over a long weekend.



Well, we don't stock it all up in the government if that's what you mean. America has one of the highest splits between the rich and poor of all the industrialized nations in the world.

That is very true. It is also true that we have many social programs that aid the extreme poverty stricken.




So what is so different than America? Look at our numbers of homeless people, our sick and elderly that die on a regular basis while the government spends all of its money on the Pentagon.

12 million kids in poverty

Pentagon budget - 400 billion a year
children health care - 40 billion a year

'Axis of evil' war budget - less than 10 billion combined

I am unaware of these figures so I can not comment...



Since when does a preemptive strike from us mean that the other country caused the war?

That is the complete opposite of what I said. I mentioned no preemptive strike. What I spoke of was a retaliatory strike I said we must conquer these nations when THEY ATTACK FIRST...



Haha...we still have allies?

I contend that we do. I further contend that reparations are indeed likely with those recently in question.



That's a hell of a surgeon. "I'll come in and remove the tumor, but I'll leave you unstitched and bleading on the table...good luck"

You missed the point. I did not contend going in on a preemptive basis to fix anything. I indicated after an unmerciful retaliatory strike these actions would need to occure. Yes leave and let them fix the mess they have caused.

 

[SoyLeche]

Yeah, let's not learn anything from history. Wanna see what happens under your plan? Check out Germany between WWI and WWII.

 

[SunMessenger]

Yeah, let's not learn anything from history. Wanna see what happens under your plan? Check out Germany between WWI and WWII.

Where is our current path leading to ? Will this be more history we would rather forget? If Hitler was retaliated against without delay from the point of his first strike I contend there could have been a shorter war. One much less costly in human suffering. Perhaps that is history we should learn from as well. Some are critical of Truman for dropping the bomb to end the war with Japan. I commend the action as one that truley may have averted untold other conflicts that never evolved... When dealing with madmen who attack first we must speak their same unmerciful language but only in direct retaliation. When in Japan one gets around much easier and accomplishes more speaking Japanese...

 

[sparc872]

You missed the point. I did not contend going in on a preemptive basis to fix anything. I indicated after an unmerciful retaliatory strike these actions would need to occure. Yes leave and let them fix the mess they have caused.

I think you missed my point, entirely. What I was saying is that going in and destroying a countries support system and then leaving them to fend for theirselves would be a crime against humanity. Going back to the surgery analogy, it would be like taking out someones heart, you know, the thing that keeps them alive, and then not replacing it with anything not even a mechanical heart.

 

[greatcalgarian]

I think you missed my point, entirely. What I was saying is that going in and destroying a countries support system and then leaving them to fend for theirselves would be a crime against humanity. Going back to the surgery analogy, it would be like taking out someones heart, you know, the thing that keeps them alive, and then not replacing it with anything not even a mechanical heart.

Nah! US and willing coalition will not leave Iraq. Not because they do not want the Iraqi to fend themselves. But if US and coalition left, the French, the German, the Russian, and even the Chinese will very likely move in and help the so call 'terrorist' to set up a 'friendly' government with the French, German, Russian, and Chinese, and we can then see the flow of precious black gold heading towards those countries, while Iraq started her Nation building....... That will be the last thing US wants to see happening.

 

[kai]

its a good point but that would indeed be surgical and we would not be trying to help the vast majority of people who are not terrorists/insurgents. i think that is what is the difference i would like to see iraq stable and take its place in the world

 

[Ody]

War is inevitable, especially with human nature. :thud:

 

[SunMessenger]

I think you missed my point, entirely. What I was saying is that going in and destroying a countries support system and then leaving them to fend for theirselves would be a crime against humanity. Going back to the surgery analogy, it would be like taking out someones heart, you know, the thing that keeps them alive, and then not replacing it with anything not even a mechanical heart.

Comparing leaders of countries to organs of the body is not the same thing. They may both be responsible parts of current survival but not at all the same in idea based logic. One does not choose what heart they are given and the concept of one removing it and leaving the body to die is absurd. We are talking about countries who have either allowed or supported their leaders to be in power. It is for that country involved to correct and repair not any other. We elect presidents if they do a good job we reap the rewards if they do not we pay the bills. Then we elect new ones . The people decide what course of action their countries take by either electing or in the case of dictatorships allowing their leaders to remain in power...Be Well and God Bless...

 

[ΩRôghênΩ]

Maybe so, yet i forbid the use of nuclear weapons even if used against us. when the US uses them, everyone else will look at us and say, "hey look, the US used em, so we can too!" then we get the nuclear winter everyones talking about (maybe im going a little to far)

 

[sparc872]

Comparing leaders of countries to organs of the body is not the same thing. They may both be responsible parts of current survival but not at all the same in idea based logic. One does not choose what heart they are given and the concept of one removing it and leaving the body to die is absurd. We are talking about countries who have either allowed or supported their leaders to be in power. It is for that country involved to correct and repair not any other. We elect presidents if they do a good job we reap the rewards if they do not we pay the bills. Then we elect new ones . The people decide what course of action their countries take by either electing or in the case of dictatorships allowing their leaders to remain in power...Be Well and God Bless...

That may be the case in the beginning, but it is very difficult to overthrow political leaders. Think about the US right now, do you support Bush? We are a democracy and we can't get the idiot or his republican party to do anything have way intelligent.

Look at Iraq, they held an 'election' a few years back and there was 100% vote for Sadaam. Not because they wanted him, but because they wanted to live. You have to keep history in perspective, these countries were started not too long ago, they don't have a history of democracy, and when someone takes power, they use threats against the people to remain there. You CANNOT hold the citizens of that country responsible. If we were to pull out of any country in which we go in and remove the government, we would be hurting the citizens, not the people who wanted the country to be that way in the first place!

 

[SunMessenger]

Maybe so, yet i forbid the use of nuclear weapons even if used against us. when the US uses them, everyone else will look at us and say, "hey look, the US used em, so we can too!" then we get the nuclear winter everyones talking about (maybe im going a little to far)

I continue to pray daily that these things will never be. The aftermath is catastrophic.

 

[SunMessenger]

That may be the case in the beginning, but it is very difficult to overthrow political leaders. Think about the US right now, do you support Bush? We are a democracy and we can't get the idiot or his republican party to do anything have way intelligent.

Look at Iraq, they held an 'election' a few years back and there was 100% vote for Sadaam. Not because they wanted him, but because they wanted to live. You have to keep history in perspective, these countries were started not too long ago, they don't have a history of democracy, and when someone takes power, they use threats against the people to remain there. You CANNOT hold the citizens of that country responsible. If we were to pull out of any country in which we go in and remove the government, we would be hurting the citizens, not the people who wanted the country to be that way in the first place!

I will put this as nice as I can. We are screwed in Iraq. We should have never entered in the first place. Now we have an obligation to clean up the mess that was created. The original post was about a potential conflict with Iran or for that matter any other country that chooses to attack us or our allies first. That I contend is a different scenario all together. We entered the current mess on the basis of false information and I pray that who ever The Presidents successor is has an inside track of knowledge that will lend to a quick withdrawal when the time is right. I have faith that this too will pass as will the chain of command in this country. I pray we can survive that long ...Be Well and God Bless

 

[sparc872]

I will put this as nice as I can. We are screwed in Iraq. We should have never entered in the first place. Now we have an obligation to clean up the mess that was created. The original post was about a potential conflict with Iran or for that matter any other country that chooses to attack us or our allies first. That I contend is a different scenario all together. We entered the current mess on the basis of false information and I pray that who ever The Presidents successor is has an inside track of knowledge that will lend to a quick withdrawal when the time is right.

Alright, well thanks for clearing that up a bit. Although I do still disagree that we should leave the country completely helpless after going in and destroying the government. I disagree with war in general, war should always be the last option, and in the even that it does happen, we need to show compassion to the people whose lives we just tore apart.

I have faith that this too will pass as will the chain of command in this country. I pray we can survive that long ...Be Well and God Bless

I doubt you meant it this way but...I figured I would make a comment about it. I can't just have faith that something will happen, because when I say I have faith in it, then that takes away my responsibility from the situation. I hope that the situation will turn around, but I know that it won't unless action is taken. We must act against these problems, otherwise they will just keep growing and growing until it is too late to fix them.

Ignorance and inaction have been the downfalls of every major civilization.