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Authority, truth, pride, and prejudice

Select what describes your situation most closely:

  • I believe my church is the only true church on the earth and all others faiths are false.

  • I identify with a religious belief system which does not teach it is better than other faiths.

  • I identify with a religious belief system, but hold different personal beliefs than the group.

  • I do not affiliate with any religious group because I have not found a "true" group yet.

  • I do not affiliate with any single religious group because I believe God works equally with everyone

  • I do not affiliate with any religious group because I am an atheist.


Results are only viewable after voting.

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
I see Catholics, JW's, Mormons, Jews, Muslims, pretty much all religious faiths as being in this category. Anyone who has "authority" figures, president, elders, pope, prophet, Grand Mufti, Chief Rabbinate, Dalai Lama .... who follows any one particular leader over others I think fall under the #1 category. Debate me if that is wrong.

To have no 'authority' figures is to defy the scriptural model. To allow anyone to believe whatever they wish is to invite disunity. The first Christians did not operate that way.

The admonition from the apostle Paul was....
"Be obedient to those who are taking the lead among you and be submissive, for they are keeping watch over you as those who will render an account, so that they may do this with joy and not with sighing, for this would be damaging to you." (Hebrews 13:17)

So there were those who 'took the lead' and they had to have spiritual qualifications, but not necessarily academic ones. This in no way elevated them above the other members of the congregation, but these were the assigned shepherds and teachers....those who would account to God for their actions and decisions as they tried to correct erring ones, conscious of their own imperfections.....
"Brothers, even if a man takes a false step before he is aware of it, you who have spiritual qualifications try to readjust such a man in a spirit of mildness. But keep an eye on yourself, for fear you too may be tempted." (Galatians 6:1)

If those who came into the Christian congregation wanted to introduce their own ideas, John said...
"Everyone who pushes ahead and does not remain in the teaching of the Christ does not have God. The one who does remain in this teaching is the one who has both the Father and the Son. 10 If anyone comes to you and does not bring this teaching, do not receive him into your homes or say a greeting to him. 11 For the one who says a greeting to him is a sharer in his wicked works."

So there are grounds for rejecting those who want to create divisions and disruptions as well.

For those who broke God's laws unrepentantly, there were consequences...
"In my letter I wrote you to stop keeping company with sexually immoral people, 10 not meaning entirely with the sexually immoral people of this world or the greedy people or extortioners or idolaters. Otherwise, you would actually have to get out of the world. 11 But now I am writing you to stop keeping company with anyone called a brother who is sexually immoral or a greedy person or an idolater or a reviler or a drunkard or an extortioner, not even eating with such a man. 12 For what do I have to do with judging those outside? Do you not judge those inside, 13 while God judges those outside? “Remove the wicked person from among yourselves.” (1 Corinthians 5:9-13)

Authority to "judge" those "inside" the congregation was given to the shepherds, but those "outside" would be judged by God. The disciplinary arrangement inside the congregation is entirely biblical, so I have no issues with it. It is done lovingly and with a view to helping the erring one to make the necessary adjustments in their life to comply with Jehovah's standards. He only has one set and all must abide by them.

I was not born a JW but chose to become one because no other religious group ticked as many boxes for me as they did. I was raised Anglican and quire frankly the hypocrisy I saw was nauseating. Whatever Christ taught, Christendom twisted it all out of shape and made it into something else. Whatever he told them to do, they justified not doing it....I understand that no one is perfect but I also understand that the first century Christians all believed the same truth and all stayed within the confines of Jesus' teachings......all of them, not just the convenient stuff.

I don't expect my brothers to be any more perfect that the original apostles were and they were chosen by Jesus to carry on where he left off. Their words are our scripture.

If you want to invent your own religion, then I'm afraid God will be missing from it....he tells us what is acceptable to him......all we have to do is comply with his instructions and study his word...his spirit will direct us if we are sincere. (John 6:44; 65)
 
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Altfish

Veteran Member
As an atheist my 'community' (in normal, non-COVID, times) is family and friends. The extended community is people I meet walking, in the pub, grabbing a coffee.
We also have many friends in Scotland where we share a holiday cottaqe.

I used to have many work colleagues but since retiring these are somewhat dwindled.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Yes, I work full time, and very much enjoy those I work with. Most are just a professional relationship, although there are a couple I have become friends with.



From the two different denominations I experienced, only those within the church group had "close" relationships, because the church monopolized so much of everyone's free time. Sunday meeting times, evening classes, morning classes, service (to others within their group, not service to those outside of the group), etc. Members in the group were not given any free time to form friendships with others outside of their group.


Betrayed by a kiss - yes, the lesson that apostles are not to be trusted, that authority figures are not to be trusted.


JW offshoot, followed by Mormon - haha - yes, two horrible cults, and I do mean cult.



I wish adultery was my demon to fight.... I have forgiven whom I need to forgive, just natural laws, just a sickness so many seem to have. I have learned neither the JW's nor the Mormons, nor any other group which claims to have authority is "true". Growing up involves becoming your own authority figure - graduating from school, moving up from employee to employer, not trying to be prideful but as an adult self-reliance is being responsible... so many organizations do not allow members to become self-reliant, always forced to follow the imperfect authority figure it seems. Everyone is imperfect, I get that, just seems like there would be a better "adult" faith out there which embraces learning from all sources.

sorry for the rant.
No problem with "the rant" :) WOW! That is some journey! My sister used to be a Mormon (sharing just for reference sake).

I find it interesting that Jesus said, in Matt 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

In churches all over the world, it isn't about spending our lives touching just touching the lives of our people in the church. It's taking God's Kingdom and His keys and sharing it wherever you go and not consume it on just ourselves.

It sounds like you have your heart in the right place. Your previous experience did have some good things... how to take care of your brother... Don't let what was bad ruin what is good IMV

But it is about sharing it with the world.


I trust God's Holy Spirit will lead you to your next step
 
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Vee

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
  • How do you view those who are not of your faith?
  • Do you agree 100% with the leaders in your faith and see them as having more knowledge and authority than you? Do you trust your own mind more, or do you trust your leaders more?
  • How many close friends do you have outside of your faith vs. how many friends hold the same faith as you?
.

- Although I do believe I belong to the truth as the Bible describes it, I don't see myself in any way superior to others. I view people who don't belong to my faith as fellow human beings who I should love and respect. In fact, if I didn't show love and respect for others, I would be violation the principles of the bible. Two of my favorite scriptures are Mathew 7:12 "All things therefore, that you want men to do to you, you also must do to them", and 1 Peter 4:8 "Above all, have intense love for one another". If you keep reading after these two verses you'll see that they don't have a list of exceptions, which means that a loving attitude should be applied towards all people.

- Most of the people taking the lead in my religion have more knowledge than me because they've been studying for much longer and they have more experience as well. They've never made me feel inferior and I don't see their authority as repressive. I don't even think of them as "authority", I think of them as helpers or guides. My mind has served me well most of my life and I listen to my instincts a lot, but in case of doubt I'm not afraid to ask for help and I must say that I've never received bad advice from those with more experience in my religion.

- I've never counted how many friends I have on each "side", but probably 50/50. My basic rule is "you're nice to me, I'm nice to you", so I'm not going to exclude someone from my friendship list because of their religious views, nationality, skin color, etc. Of course it is much easier to communicate with someone of similar values, but that doesn't mean others can't have a place in my life. It's just a matter of focusing on people's qualities.
 

idea

Question Everything
Wow, so many great replies!

I've been an atheist/Agnostic all my life but I have never seen that as a defining feature. It's but a small aspect. I've done youth work with my assigned church. My friends are atheist, Christians of different denominations, a Buddhist and some diverse Pagans. I only ever had problems with people who took their religion too serious.

That is wonderful your church embraces atheist/agnostic's. The groups I was in would never allow someone with non-dogmatic beliefs to serve the youth. (I once held a career/college info session for boys, but insisted the girls needed one too. Boys class was well-attended, full room. Only 2 girls were allowed to come by their parents to the girls session, as the girls place is in the home, not getting a career :( ....)

I know I need to explore more groups, but bad experiences have made me shy away from anything in a brick-and-mortar building.

I wonder, Just because i am a Muslim, it means i believe in Allah as the only God i should follow.
This does not mean I have to go around telling non muslims that they are wrong, bad or going to hell.
Who am I to tell a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or other religions that theyr religion is "fake"?

Yes, I have met many who are "polite and friendly" to others of different faiths, but in reality close bonds do not seem to be there if beliefs are not shared. It would require giving up belief in your own faith to not see another's beliefs as "fake", misguided, or wrong. Those with any kind of belief have chosen one authority over another, one organization over another, one group of people over another. That is wonderful that you are kind to all.... forgive me for being frank, but that polite kindness gets under my skin as it feels like pity. "You poor thing, so sorry you do not understand the things I understand, or hold the faith I hold, so sorry you are not chosen like I am" kind of a thing. Conversations seem condescending to defensive when legitimate questions or ideas are presented which contradict someone's belief system. Talk about the weather or something superficial and benign and everyone is fine. Talk about anything real, anything that is actually meaningful and a barrier is present due to belief systems.

To have no 'authority' figures is to defy the scriptural model. To allow anyone to believe whatever they wish is to invite disunity.

United in all things - united heart, united mind - at first this does sound beautiful, to be part of a group who shares everything.... but to join such a group is to lose yourself, to not think for yourself, or be yourself. It is not really "you" that is part of this kind of a group, it is a puppet - the group only embraces puppets.

If the creation is to witness of the creator, nature's diversity must be contemplated. Men create mass-produced identical interchangeable parts. In nature, each leaf on each tree is unique and different. Books aside (there are many different holy books) nature and the laws of nature - if any power is behind all of that wonder - nature prefers diversity, and so I seek a belief system which also embraces symbiotic diversity.

Well you could at least change the spelling of atheist (as an option) to be correct (if possible - MODS?). :oops:

Haha - thank you for fixing it! Turns out Ashiest is a word - from ashes. Darn spiel cheek!!

As an atheist my 'community' (in normal, non-COVID, times) is family and friends. The extended community is people I meet walking, in the pub, grabbing a coffee.
We also have many friends in Scotland where we share a holiday cottaqe.

I used to have many work colleagues but since retiring these are somewhat dwindled.

That is wonderful if you have a family who are accepting of your belief system. I'm jealous! Yes, I agree, put in effort and time to anyone and a friend can be made. Wish I had more time, perhaps when I am retired....

No problem with "the rant" :) WOW! That is some journey! My sister used to be a Mormon (sharing just for reference sake).

I find it interesting that Jesus said, in Matt 10:7 And as ye go, preach, saying, The kingdom of heaven is at hand. 8 Heal the sick, cleanse the lepers, raise the dead, cast out devils: freely ye have received, freely give.

In churches all over the world, it isn't about spending our lives touching just touching the lives of our people in the church. It's taking God's Kingdom and His keys and sharing it wherever you go and not consume it on just ourselves.

It sounds like you have your heart in the right place. Your previous experience did have some good things... how to take care of your brother... Don't let what was bad ruin what is good IMV

But it is about sharing it with the world.


I trust God's Holy Spirit will lead you to your next step

Love the ideas in Matt 10:7, no pay to play (pay to enter the temple haha, or pay for indulgences etc.) salvation army seems like a legit group as they actually do spend time serving rather than preaching. I agree, not throwing the baby out with the bath water, just a little lonely without being part of any tribe. The ex-Mormon crowd has some very special people in it (as does the ex-JW crowd, and ex-anything crowd). Those who reach the point in life where they can think outside the box they were born into - they are special people. It is not "lost faith", it is a bigger faith.

- Although I do believe I belong to the truth as the Bible describes it, I don't see myself in any way superior to others.

When Tyndale translated the bible, he thought everyone who read it would agree on what "truth" is. One of the beautiful things about parables are the many different interpretations and applications of them. It reaches everyone individually if allowed to speak without middlemen. I believe if there is a God, that power speaks individually to each of us - a quiet soft voice that is difficult to hear, we push it away for fear of what we will be asked to do, fear of not being strong enough .... parables from any book (not just the bible) bring that inner voice to the forefront. We explore promptings first at arm's length through the imagined story of another before allowing it to become our own story. Without dogma, without others forcing their story on us - scriptures are an amazing thing.

- Most of the people taking the lead in my religion have more knowledge than me because they've been studying for much longer and they have more experience as well.

become a child, not a scholar.... Many try to become an expert at "borrowing light" from others, entrenched deeper and deeper in escaping oneself by simply copying and following others. No borrowed light.... God speaks directly to each of us through that soft still voice, anything else would not be just or fair. No high and mighty degrees needed. No titles. He was born next to animals in a manger, remember? Remember who it was that killed him? Organized religious scholars killed Him. A little child will lead them.... the kingdom of God is within each of us, is within you.

Thank you again everyone, something about typing and thinking out loud, it is helping me find God again.... wish things like family outings did not throw me off so much, I should be able to find peace and joy no matter who or what is around me. Seems so easy now that I am alone haha.
 

Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Wow, so many great replies!



That is wonderful your church embraces atheist/agnostic's. The groups I was in would never allow someone with non-dogmatic beliefs to serve the youth. (I once held a career/college info session for boys, but insisted the girls needed one too. Boys class was well-attended, full room. Only 2 girls were allowed to come by their parents to the girls session, as the girls place is in the home, not getting a career :( ....)

I know I need to explore more groups, but bad experiences have made me shy away from anything in a brick-and-mortar building.



Yes, I have met many who are "polite and friendly" to others of different faiths, but in reality close bonds do not seem to be there if beliefs are not shared. It would require giving up belief in your own faith to not see another's beliefs as "fake", misguided, or wrong. Those with any kind of belief have chosen one authority over another, one organization over another, one group of people over another. That is wonderful that you are kind to all.... forgive me for being frank, but that polite kindness gets under my skin as it feels like pity. "You poor thing, so sorry you do not understand the things I understand, or hold the faith I hold, so sorry you are not chosen like I am" kind of a thing. Conversations seem condescending to defensive when legitimate questions or ideas are presented which contradict someone's belief system. Talk about the weather or something superficial and benign and everyone is fine. Talk about anything real, anything that is actually meaningful and a barrier is present due to belief systems.



United in all things - united heart, united mind - at first this does sound beautiful, to be part of a group who shares everything.... but to join such a group is to lose yourself, to not think for yourself, or be yourself. It is not really "you" that is part of this kind of a group, it is a puppet - the group only embraces puppets.

If the creation is to witness of the creator, nature's diversity must be contemplated. Men create mass-produced identical interchangeable parts. In nature, each leaf on each tree is unique and different. Books aside (there are many different holy books) nature and the laws of nature - if any power is behind all of that wonder - nature prefers diversity, and so I seek a belief system which also embraces symbiotic diversity.



Haha - thank you for fixing it! Turns out Ashiest is a word - from ashes. Darn spiel cheek!!



That is wonderful if you have a family who are accepting of your belief system. I'm jealous! Yes, I agree, put in effort and time to anyone and a friend can be made. Wish I had more time, perhaps when I am retired....



Love the ideas in Matt 10:7, no pay to play (pay to enter the temple haha, or pay for indulgences etc.) salvation army seems like a legit group as they actually do spend time serving rather than preaching. I agree, not throwing the baby out with the bath water, just a little lonely without being part of any tribe. The ex-Mormon crowd has some very special people in it (as does the ex-JW crowd, and ex-anything crowd). Those who reach the point in life where they can think outside the box they were born into - they are special people. It is not "lost faith", it is a bigger faith.



When Tyndale translated the bible, he thought everyone who read it would agree on what "truth" is. One of the beautiful things about parables are the many different interpretations and applications of them. It reaches everyone individually if allowed to speak without middlemen. I believe if there is a God, that power speaks individually to each of us - a quiet soft voice that is difficult to hear, we push it away for fear of what we will be asked to do, fear of not being strong enough .... parables from any book (not just the bible) bring that inner voice to the forefront. We explore promptings first at arm's length through the imagined story of another before allowing it to become our own story. Without dogma, without others forcing their story on us - scriptures are an amazing thing.



become a child, not a scholar.... Many try to become an expert at "borrowing light" from others, entrenched deeper and deeper in escaping oneself by simply copying and following others. No borrowed light.... God speaks directly to each of us through that soft still voice, anything else would not be just or fair. No high and mighty degrees needed. No titles. He was born next to animals in a manger, remember? Remember who it was that killed him? Organized religious scholars killed Him. A little child will lead them.... the kingdom of God is within each of us, is within you.

Thank you again everyone, something about typing and thinking out loud, it is helping me find God again.... wish things like family outings did not throw me off so much, I should be able to find peace and joy no matter who or what is around me. Seems so easy now that I am alone haha.
To be kind toward others is not meant as "I am better than you" :) i actually am happy for others when they find a spiritual path/religion that is what they belive in.
I dont have to defend my own belief, because it is just what i believe. But if someone ask a question about my belief, i will give an answer according to my understanding of the teaching I follow and practicing. I understand i can be wrong in what i say sometimes, and if i get the chance to gain more wisdom or understanding, i will try to correct my past mistakes.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
If I may address a few points here....

I know I need to explore more groups, but bad experiences have made me shy away from anything in a brick-and-mortar building.

If you understand who built those bricks and mortar buildings in competition with the original, you would see a very familiar tactic....imitation.....counterfeit. Isn't that what Jesus said would take place? (Matthew 13:24-30; 36-43)

Have you heard the illustration about..."how do you hide a 40ft tree out in the middle of a cleared field"?
The answer is, you can't.....but if you had time up your sleeve, you could plant a forest of similar looking trees all around the original, and in time as they grew to maturity, it would become harder and harder to find and identify the original tree. Guess who planted the forest? Guess who built all those "buildings"?

Conversations seem condescending to defensive when legitimate questions or ideas are presented which contradict someone's belief system. Talk about the weather or something superficial and benign and everyone is fine. Talk about anything real, anything that is actually meaningful and a barrier is present due to belief systems.

This is the one thing I found most pleasing about my studies with JW's. Coming from an Anglican background, all of the things that annoyed me about "Christianity" (as it was practiced in my church) were the very things I wanted to address and I was always made to feel bad for asking....and never got any straight answers anyway...plenty of excuses though. Not so with JW's. I had all my questions answered....even the most difficult ones, straight from the Bible....which was the only source I trusted. They showed me how to study the Bible...one topic at a time, because the Bible is not a book that you can simply read from cover to cover and get the sense of it. You need guidance to help you understand it. (Acts 8:29-31)

I had heard all the awful stories but they addressed all my concerns and allowed me to experience first hand what becoming a JW would entail. The more I learned and the more I had to do with these people the more I felt completely at home with them. I kept asking why they had such a bad reputation, and then I remembered how hated Jesus and his disciples were by members of their own faith.... (John 15:18-21) ....and who was it that whipped up that hatred? (John 8:44)

I soon learned that this is not a church that you could just "join" today by walking into a building, and walk away from tomorrow. I learned that Christian baptism meant something very important to God. It is not an empty ritual but a commitment to God through Christ to change your whole life course. There is no coercion involved, but there is lots of study and research to make sure that you understand what it means to "become" a "Christian". It isn't something you merely call yourself, but involves a close and personal relationship with God through the mediatorship of his son. Once you make that commitment, you cannot just walk away without consequences. I studied for 2 years before I made my decision to get baptized. I have never wavered.

United in all things - united heart, united mind - at first this does sound beautiful, to be part of a group who shares everything.... but to join such a group is to lose yourself, to not think for yourself, or be yourself. It is not really "you" that is part of this kind of a group, it is a puppet - the group only embraces puppets.

We are all puppets of someone......its who you choose as the puppeteer that is important.....it demonstrates that you know that there is always someone who wants to pull your strings. If God is the puppeteer, your future life will keep your stings from tangling....but if you choose his rival, the freedom he promises is just another form of slavery.....

The apostle Paul wrote....
“Do you not know that if you keep presenting yourselves to anyone as slaves to obey him, you are slaves of him because you obey him, either of sin with death in view or of obedience with righteousness in view? But thanks to God that you were the slaves of sin but you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were handed over. Yes, since you were set free from sin, you became slaves to righteousness.” (Romans 6:16-18) Slaves, but still free.

If the creation is to witness of the creator, nature's diversity must be contemplated. Men create mass-produced identical interchangeable parts. In nature, each leaf on each tree is unique and different. Books aside (there are many different holy books) nature and the laws of nature - if any power is behind all of that wonder - nature prefers diversity, and so I seek a belief system which also embraces symbiotic diversity.

What makes you think that God's people have to be cookie cutter clones of each other? We can all have diverse interests and talents but we do not have the freedom to make our own rules. That was driven home in the garden of Eden.....it's a lesson some still find hard to learn. Wanting to do things her own way is exactly what undid Eve. It has been undoing humans ever since. We were not put here to do our own thing as a first concern...we can do that after we have done the will of God....he is our Landlord after all, so he makes the rules.
 
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Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Continued...
I agree, not throwing the baby out with the bath water, just a little lonely without being part of any tribe. The ex-Mormon crowd has some very special people in it (as does the ex-JW crowd, and ex-anything crowd). Those who reach the point in life where they can think outside the box they were born into - they are special people. It is not "lost faith", it is a bigger faith.

Ex's find solace in other defectors....it makes them feel accepted when they are rejected by their spiritual family...
But if God is the one rejecting them, the solace will be meaningless and short lived. He makes the rules and if you break them with no remorse.....you will disappear off his radar altogether. The "bigger faith" is what you will find traveling the "other" road. (Matthew 7:13-14; 21-23) Its a dead end.

I believe if there is a God, that power speaks individually to each of us - a quiet soft voice that is difficult to hear, we push it away for fear of what we will be asked to do, fear of not being strong enough

That "quiet soft voice" is our conscience....but if that is our moral compass, what happens when someone points us in the wrong direction by using something "magnetic" (something that 'draws' our attention to something opposite to what God's word teaches, but we find it attractive) and then "due North" is lost? Where will we end up? :shrug:

Without dogma, without others forcing their story on us - scriptures are an amazing thing.

And that is why we have so many different "churches"....does that create unity or is it the product of so many individuals all thinking that they don't need to be told what to believe?...or how to worship God acceptably?
When Jesus came, did he tell his disciples that they could believe whatever they wished? Scripture properly interpreted is an amazing thing...but misinterpreted it can be the millstone around the necks of the deluded.
God is the one who adjudicates between those who are the genuine "wheat" and who are the "weeds" sown by the devil.

God speaks directly to each of us through that soft still voice, anything else would not be just or fair. No high and mighty degrees needed. No titles.

Not fair? Look at Israel....what happened to them when they went off on tangents and disobeyed their God? He had a written Law that was binding on all of them.....if they decided to divert to something else, he punished them.
Read about the times in their wilderness wandering when they questioned God's choice of leader. Moses was the one whom God chose to guide and direct his people and give them his Laws. I think you are kidding yourself if you think God has somehow changed......he never changes. Its his way or the highway....and that road leads nowhere you wanna go.

He was born next to animals in a manger, remember? Remember who it was that killed him? Organized religious scholars killed Him. A little child will lead them.... the kingdom of God is within each of us, is within you.
Jesus taught us many things about humility and the deceptive power of riches (Matthew 6:24)

Why did the religious leaders of the day want him dead? For the reason that his works were righteous and their works were wicked. He said that they "taught the commands of men as doctrines"....don't we see the same thing today only on a larger scale? Christendom is the monstrous mirror image of first century Judaism. Jesus led his sheep out of that incorrigibly apostate religious system and into a new pen.....one with good nourishing food and fresh clean water to quench their spiritual hunger and thirst....with the guidance from God's spirit, they flourished for a time, but another apostasy was foretold. So the present system of "Christian" religion is just as the Bible said it would be....a jumble of lies passed off as truth.

By our own choices, we can be among the "many" or the "few". Our willing compliance with God's rules is what makes the difference.
1 John 5:3...
"For this is what the love of God means, that we observe his commandments; and yet his commandments are not burdensome".

One’s choice of action is a personal responsibility, even as Moses indicated....“I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction, and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice, and by sticking to him, for he is your life....”. (Deuteronomy 30:19-20) As I see it......there is no room for doing your own thing....
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
I wonder, Just because i am a Muslim, it means i believe in Allah as the only God i should follow.
This does not mean I have to go around telling non muslims that they are wrong, bad or going to hell.
Who am I to tell a Christian, Hindu, Buddhist or other religions that theyr religion is "fake"?
Would a Creator, who has created all people, want us to love others? Or hate others?
Of course, we know the answer.

Now, let’s look at it this way....what if a particular religion, preaches hatred of people?
How should we view such a religion? Wouldn’t it be a kindness to lead them away from developing thought-processes endorsed by that particular religion, but which would incur God’s disfavor?

See, not everything religions teach, honors the Creator.

(Note that I said a religion teaching to hate people, not their actions. It’s appropriate to hate certain behaviors, like thievery... and killing.)
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Would a Creator, who has created all people, want us to love others? Or hate others?
Of course, we know the answer.

Now, let’s look at it this way....what if a particular religion, preaches hatred of people?
How should we view such a religion? Wouldn’t it be a kindness to lead them away from developing thought-processes endorsed by that particular religion, but which would incur God’s disfavor?

See, not everything religions teach, honors the Creator.

(Note that I said a religion teaching to hate people, not their actions. It’s appropriate to hate certain behaviors, like thievery... and killing.)

Better question.... Why would a creator create people that hate or create hate period? The creator knows all so why would the creator of all create hate?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Better question.... Why would a creator create people that hate or create hate period? The creator knows all so why would the creator of all create hate?
Because we were created with free will, aka , the ability to make choices. Nobody would want to be a robot.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Because we were created with free will, aka , the ability to make choices. Nobody would want to be a robot.
So the creator created hate. There's no way around it.

Let me be clear here. If the creator created me, he also created everything in me and every emotion I can have and will display. Thus if I hate, he created hate. Convince me I'm wrong.
 
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Spirit of Light

Be who ever you want
Would a Creator, who has created all people, want us to love others? Or hate others?
Of course, we know the answer.

Now, let’s look at it this way....what if a particular religion, preaches hatred of people?
How should we view such a religion? Wouldn’t it be a kindness to lead them away from developing thought-processes endorsed by that particular religion, but which would incur God’s disfavor?

See, not everything religions teach, honors the Creator.

(Note that I said a religion teaching to hate people, not their actions. It’s appropriate to hate certain behaviors, like thievery... and killing.)
A religion does not teach to hate other people, as a sufi i learn to love everyone.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
Better question.... Why would a creator create people that hate or create hate period? The creator knows all so why would the creator of all create hate?
Would you want to be a robot, essentially being a “Yes” man/woman?
On top of that, it shows the Creator is loving in giving us freedom to choose. (There is no ‘torment’ after death, only sleep until the promised Resurrection.)

The mere fact that at Matthew 6:9-10, where Jesus said to pray for God’s will to “be done on Earth”.... means His will, isn’t being done now. If there was anyone who could enforce his will on others, don’t you think God could? But He doesn’t (not yet)...He’s actually been more patient than anyone. And there’s a reason.....
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Would you want to be a robot, essentially being a “Yes” man/woman?
On top of that, it shows the Creator is loving in giving us freedom to choose. (There is no ‘torment’ after death, only sleep until the promised Resurrection.)

The mere fact that at Matthew 6:9-10, where Jesus said to pray for God’s will to “be done on Earth”.... means His will, isn’t being done now. If there was anyone who could enforce his will on others, don’t you think God could? But He doesn’t (not yet)...He’s actually been more patient than anyone. And there’s a reason.....
Everything we choose was created by the creator. Without the creator hate nor you would exist.
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member
So the creator created hate. There's no way around it.

Let me be clear here. If the creator created me, he also created everything in me and every emotion I can have and will display. Thus if I hate, he created hate. Convince me I'm wrong.
To hate, is your choice. He gives us all sorts of counsel, on how to love. Colossians 3:13-14. But you can disregard it. That’s your prerogative.

He’s given us the smarts & the physical power to kill and torture animals. Other people, too .
But is that what you want to use your intelligence for?
We have a conscience to guide us; a sense of justice is tied in with that. Because of such intangible things, entire societies have built up laws that protect and govern. That’s God-given, too.
But you can unwisely disregard them... probably to your detriment.
 
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