Authorities in Brazil investigate pro-Bolsonaro rioters who stormed Congress, government buildings

[ImmortalFlame]

I don't accept your premise that Bolsonaro and Trump have made the same claims nor that the current unrest in Brazil is similar to the protests after the 2020 U.S. election. Again, each case is its own and should be judged separately.

I mean, fair enough. But no comment at all on how similar they are and how both have the exact same person as their senior campaign manager?

You see no connection whatsoever?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

That doesn't contradict what I wrote. I never said those rioting were not Bolsonaro supporters. But there are as many dissimilarities between the current events in Brazil and what happened on January 6 as there are similarities.

I think the key difference is that one was carried out on a specific day intended to hamper or halt the actual declaration of votes, and thus effectively prevent a democratic process taking place, while the other was carried out on a seemingly random Sunday when nobody was actually working in the capitol buildings and consisted primarily of ransacking the buildings rather than actually attempting to halt any democratic process that was taking place.

But in terms of causes, the similarities are pretty stark. Both were caused by the (previous) democratically elected leader spreading a lie to their followers.

 

[Koldo]

I think each case is its own and that there is no linkage between them. Seeing Brazil through the cultural lens of the United States' culture is wrong and borderline racist.

Now you are sounding like the far-left people that get outraged by cultural appropriation when the actual people that could be offended, the people that are actually part of that culture, just don't.

@We Never Know As a brazilian, let me tell you that you have said nothing wrong in your OP and I just don't see anything resembling racism on it. It is a fact that the US is influential across the world and there is obviously a parallel between what happened in the US and what happened in Brazil. There are other factors involved too, but the comparison is proper.

 

[Koldo]

The krauts had a wee bit'o insurrection too.
2022 German coup d'état plot - Wikipedia

To be honest, I don't even know whether it is proper to say that what happened here in Brazil was a (attempted) coup.

A lot of people, without guns, rushed into very important buildings and destroyed property. Then as soon as they faced armed opposition they left the buildings. And that's pretty much it.

 

[Revoltingest]

To be honest, I don't even know whether it is proper to say that what happened here in Brazil was a (attempted) coup.

A lot of people, without guns, rushed into very important buildings and destroyed property. Then as soon as they faced armed opposition they left the buildings. And that's pretty much it.

I checked the definition of "insurrection".
It dint include competence or success.

 

[LuisDantas]

I think each case is its own and that there is no linkage between them.

Actually, there is. Steve Bannon is a close counselor of Bolsonaro, mainly by way of his sons.

Seeing Brazil through the cultural lens of the United States' culture is wrong and borderline racist.

True enough. Many Brazilians waay over-estimate the cultural proximity.

 

[LuisDantas]

I don't accept your premise that Bolsonaro and Trump have made the same claims nor that the current unrest in Brazil is similar to the protests after the 2020 U.S. election. Again, each case is its own and should be judged separately.

Really? Because that is indeed what happened.

 

[LuisDantas]

To be honest, I don't even know whether it is proper to say that what happened here in Brazil was a (attempted) coup.

A lot of people, without guns, rushed into very important buildings and destroyed property. Then as soon as they faced armed opposition they left the buildings. And that's pretty much it.

It was indeed a failed attempt at a coup. We know that already.

 

[Stevicus]

To be honest, I don't even know whether it is proper to say that what happened here in Brazil was a (attempted) coup.

A lot of people, without guns, rushed into very important buildings and destroyed property. Then as soon as they faced armed opposition they left the buildings. And that's pretty much it.

I've noticed that there's been a lot of exaggeration and embellishment in the coverage of events in recent years. There's been a tendency on the part of some to get stridently melodramatic about various issues.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think each case is its own and that there is no linkage between them. Seeing Brazil through the cultural lens of the United States' culture is wrong and borderline racist.

Really?
Ameristanians & Brazilians are different races?

 

[metis]

That doesn't contradict what I wrote. I never said those rioting were not Bolsonaro supporters. But there are as many dissimilarities between the current events in Brazil and what happened on January 6 as there are similarities.

Nope as it goes well beyond that as Bolsonaro and Trump have used the same tactics and corresponded as such. Also, CPAC last November enthusiastically listened to and praised Bolsonaro.

Here:
As Trump endorsed Jair Bolsonaro for reelection, prominent U.S. election deniers made inroads with Bolsonaro’s movement and family, according to interviews and public documents. Eduardo Bolsonaro discussed election fraud with Bannon and lunched with former Trump adviser Jason Miller, while Donald Trump Jr. spoke remotely to a gathering in Brazil last year to push claims that outside forces were seeking to undermine Bolsonaro’s campaign.

In more recent months, Bannon has used his “War Room” podcast to stoke claims of fraud in Bolsonaro’s loss and insist that proof of systematic cheating was at hand. When rioters breached Brazilian government buildings on Sunday, Bannon took to the social media site Gettr to call the pro-Bolsonaro crowds “Brazilian freedom fighters.”

Bolsonaro’s new life as a Florida man: Fast food runs and selfies
The parallels between Trump and Bolsonaro show how an anti-democratic ideology embraced by Trump has been exported abroad and enlisted by foreign leaders and their allies. In addition to Brazil, Trump supporters have forged ties with far-right leaders in Hungary and other parts of Europe. While both Bolsonaro and Trump were ultimately cast out of office, with democratic institutions ratifying the will of voters, the recent turmoil has illuminated how deeply the Trump network has been enmeshed in Bolsonaro’s political world... -- Brazil’s riot puts spotlight on close ties between Bolsonaro and Trump (msn.com)

It is more than appalling that you would back neo-fascists like Trump and Bolsonaro, and again let me highly recommend the excellent book by Ruth Ben-Ghiat "Strongmen: From Mussolini to the Present", whereas both Trump and Bolsonaro are covered with this resurgence of fascism.

 

[Koldo]

It was indeed a failed attempt at a coup. We know that already.

How did you reach the conclusion it was a failed attempt at a coup?

 

[LuisDantas]

How did you reach the conclusion it was a failed attempt at a coup?

PLEASE don't insult both of us. You know better, or at the very least you are supposed to.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Nope as it goes well beyond that as Bolsonaro and Trump have used the same tactics and corresponded as such. Also, CPAC last November enthusiastically listened to and praised Bolsonaro.

Here:
As Trump endorsed Jair Bolsonaro for reelection, prominent U.S. election deniers made inroads with Bolsonaro’s movement and family, according to interviews and public documents. Eduardo Bolsonaro discussed election fraud with Bannon and lunched with former Trump adviser Jason Miller, while Donald Trump Jr. spoke remotely to a gathering in Brazil last year to push claims that outside forces were seeking to undermine Bolsonaro’s campaign.

In more recent months, Bannon has used his “War Room” podcast to stoke claims of fraud in Bolsonaro’s loss and insist that proof of systematic cheating was at hand. When rioters breached Brazilian government buildings on Sunday, Bannon took to the social media site Gettr to call the pro-Bolsonaro crowds “Brazilian freedom fighters.”

Bolsonaro’s new life as a Florida man: Fast food runs and selfies
The parallels between Trump and Bolsonaro show how an anti-democratic ideology embraced by Trump has been exported abroad and enlisted by foreign leaders and their allies. In addition to Brazil, Trump supporters have forged ties with far-right leaders in Hungary and other parts of Europe. While both Bolsonaro and Trump were ultimately cast out of office, with democratic institutions ratifying the will of voters, the recent turmoil has illuminated how deeply the Trump network has been enmeshed in Bolsonaro’s political world... -- Brazil’s riot puts spotlight on close ties between Bolsonaro and Trump (msn.com)

It is more than appalling that you would back neo-fascists like Trump and Bolsonaro, and again let me highly recommend the excellent book by Ruth Ben-Ghiat "Strongmen: From Mussolini to the Present", whereas both Trump and Bolsonaro are covered with this resurgence of fascism.

Does it cover what causes the attraction to fascism and how to deter it?

 

[Stevicus]

Really?
Ameristanians & Brazilians are different races?

I think both America and Brazil have a rather diverse variety of different racial and cultural groups. I think it's just that some people use the term "racist" when they really mean "ethnocentric."

 

[metis]

Does it cover what causes the attraction to fascism and how to deter it?

Yes, she covers that well largely, largely because the fascists who eventually became leaders also were "populists".

For example, some historians believe Hitler had roughly 80% of the populace in Germany behind him at the beginning of WWII. The irony is that at the end of the war most didn't admit as such.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think both America and Brazil have a rather diverse variety of different racial and cultural groups. I think it's just that some people use the term "racist" when they really mean "ethnocentric."

The post-dictionary age rears its ugly head again.

 

[Koldo]

PLEASE don't insult both of us. You know better, or at the very least you are supposed to.

Erm...
I am not insulting anyone. And I have no idea how you have reached the conclusion that was an (failed) attempt at a coup.

 

[LuisDantas]

Erm...
I am not insulting anyone. And I have no idea how you have reached the conclusion that was an (failed) attempt at a coup.

Not playing that game, pal. You have access to the news.

 

[Koldo]

Not playing that game, pal. You have access to the news.

What game? What news?
In what way would that vandalism have resulted in a coup? It is a simple question.