Australian Satanism and the Temple of THEM

[1137]

So the O9A's stance is we need big names to matter.

 

[kerriscott]

So the O9A's stance is we need big names to matter.

There is no "O9A stance", given the axiom of the authority of individual judgment. There's only individual O9A people giving their own personal opinion about certain things based on their own experience, their own pathei-mathos, and (because they're O9A) guided by the O9A logos (aka the code of kindred honor). These personal opinions can and do vary regarding certain topics.

I gave my personal opinion about the matter, albeit one guided by the O9A logos:

"One of the basic principles of the O9A, enshrined in the Code of Kindred Honour, is that of judging people for ourselves, individually, based on and only on a personal knowing. Thus, we who are O9A neither trust nor respect anyone unless we know them personally, in the real-world, and they have shown us, by their behaviour and by their deeds over a period of time, that they merit our trust and our respect.

This means that we most certainly do not trust nor respect some anonymous or anonymized person who writes about themselves and/or about the O9A via the medium of the internet. Thus we suspect them, and everything they write, be it via e-mail, or on some weblog or on some forum or on some website." Source - Advice For Neophytes​

Now, that makes sense to me - it's only logical, given the O9A logos - although no doubt it won't make sense to some other people.

 

[ametist]

Angry? I'm not in the slightest emotional - you asked questions, I gave answers - where does anger come into it? Are you projecting your expectations and emotions on to me?

The Temple of THEM works in multiplicities. We have an internal membership with eight of us that perform certain roles and goals. We also have a broader understanding of the Temple of THEM meaning evolutionary life and higher consciousness itself, to which some belong without needing to know or be affiliated with the inner sanctum of us eight. We use public presence and synchronicity to make contact with them. We also seek to expand general consciousness and evolution, our own and where possible, others. Thus we have a physical temple conduit and a holistic temple conduit - where general awareness being raised through sharing what we discover and unfold through our group is considered of value to offer up to others - for it is a reciprocal exchange. We do not need these others to join our Temple to work with them. Only to know of them, maybe aid them, or have them aid us - so we all grow. However, like calling Dark Gods, Dark, things grow in stages, where some things are true to a certain point, and therefore necessary, and then later, discarded.

Their interest in us is on any level is hard to be sure. They may not be interested in us at all. But I and the rest of us are interested in THEM.

specialized Sex magic, death magic, development of empathy, inward introspection, experiment, archetypal magic, narrative magic, increase in synchronicity, empathy, solidarity with Ones of THEM, through understanding what THEY are, want, how we can work with them, dreams, signs, symbols, intuition, genius, madness, vantage, luck, chance, knowledge, love, and certain methods of other magic are some of the ways to communicate - or have THEM communicate.

No, i am not angry i was just curious. I am glad you arent angry with me either. Thank you for answering me. Also you are writing in a blue dir. If you get disturbed by anyone's harsh comments you can ask mods to delete them. This is the nature of blue dirs those who are not of the blue dir's religion should be respectful to op and should only questions.

 

[Estro Felino]

All right. What are the values that your sect intends to promote?

 

[hollow]

No, i am not angry i was just curious. I am glad you arent angry with me either. Thank you for answering me. Also you are writing in a blue dir. If you get disturbed by anyone's harsh comments you can ask mods to delete them. This is the nature of blue dirs those who are not of the blue dir's religion should be respectful to op and should only questions.

I'd like them to delete kerriscott who is debating what THEM is and trying to turn this thread about the Temple of THEM into another failed and boring o9a one.

 

[hollow]

All right. What are the values that your sect intends to promote?

An interesting question Hay. Solidarity, Synchronicity and Empathy.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Some people have certain concerns, especially given he's publicly announced there's a 'temple', a 'satanic co-operative', and 'members'.

Plus, there's no proof that he has actually done anything practical in terms of the LHP/sorcery.

You've only got the word of some anonymous person anonymously posting stuff on the internet that this 'temple' and 'members' exist.

If there's nothing of substance, in the real world, and no real person with practical experience, to back up the claims and the practice, then it's just more theoretical gabble about the LHP by another anonymous person, and thus lacks credibility.

At least with the CoS, ToS, and the O9A, there's substance - people - in the real world with real practical experience. Not just words anonymously posted.

Can you please provide evidence that the ONA exists outside of Internet forum postings, blogs, and some people claiming or rumored to be involved with it? I have seen none, and this is something that really intrigues me.

You can do that in one of the many ONA threads here or start a new one because the OP obviously does not wish to have his thread hijacked with ONA talk, and that's a good idea.

 

[hollow]

@Hay: the following paragraphs are from the Temple of THEM Manifesto, and the article "Requisites" that was printed in 2006.

"The essential quality THEM look for in would-be initiates is an ability to continue to Change. I.e. to grow in as many ways as possible and explore ones world and being to its infinite potential. Since it's not always easy to know how to grow beyond one's situation and mode of being, THEM assist individuals in singular cases to work with them in finding ways to overcome limitations that they have in order that they not stop and rest permanently on any particular ideology, idea, or concrete notion of their being and their world; so that they may become like a shape-shifter who can adopt endless modes as suits that being. Some of the ways we attempt to help is by using our own magickal experience to identify blockages, weaknesses, psychological and physiological, in others. This may take the form of inducing a person to change in some way that compliments or contradicts them; perhaps to alter their perspective in conversation or via a task of some kind to help them look at other ways of thinking about things, dealing with problems, apprehending magic, and so on. Sometimes introspection is considered useful for an individual and we ask them to work with us by recording a set number of dreams for a period to assuage what their psyche is telling them, as per an Analytical/Jungian approach. Or we simply discuss their ideas and try to introduce new tangents... The essential factor is individually determined on a case by case basis; but the prime quality we look for is the ability to continually change, grow and overcome oneself. THEM become them, by selecting themselves as their Master; however, while it is Satanic to walk ones own way - it is not always easy to know ones being as intimately or the direction we might take as we would like; the ego prevents a person from being able to see what others see sometimes; and that is why each member of THEM helps others to grow, which in turn helps the member to grow.

Another key requisite is that you are capable of asking new questions of others and yourself, for this is considered by us a desirable quality. A member of THEM, is ambiguous about guidance. On one hand they don't want others to tell them what is valid and so really, we ask no questions to others; but that is a mindset, if you will, that is upheld in a different realm or mode of being; and that mode is at odds with my being, Here, writing replies and prompting others to change by taking the approach of the existence of real objective concepts that can be shared as valid for many people, not just the subjective experience of an individual.

Lets give the example of Happiness to show how we hold and turn and twist a form to see it from all Angles. Happiness is something you understand on an intricately complex level with your own interpretation for many situations where you might believe you encounter it and can make judgments as to its validity, for others and for yourself. It's a word, a sound, a notion, an idea, an abstract, a goal, an emotion, a vibration... and takes countless other shapes and names. What should be avoided, in my opinion, is a mode of specialization by a person, that limits interpretation of the thing "Happiness" and sets its suggestion in stone or if not as a singular definition, then an array of parameters that it might be defined under for a person. Even once you think you know Happiness; you should not stop trying to analyse it different ways, perhaps explore its basic opposite or varying degrees of shade. Or, perhaps you are focusing on emotion altogether too much and need to explore the physical side of your being... these tangents, or options to go further in examining the world, ourselves, and others, are the forte of THEM. It is hoped that individuals grow in some way from interaction with us, and we hope to be able to identify some way in which to prompt that growth for an individual using our experience and knowledge of magickal methods."

This document was later superseded by "361 Degress of Phorm" but it shows a part of our fundamental early interest in giving people back to themselves, not attempting to usurp their personal power.

 

[1137]

Can you please provide evidence that the ONA exists outside of Internet forum postings, blogs, and some people claiming or rumored to be involved with it? I have seen none.

You can do that in one of the many ONA threads here because the OP obviously does not wish to have his thread hijacked with ONA talk, and that's a good idea.

Pick a side, Frank.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Pick a side, Frank.

You're allowed to ask questions in blue DIRs.

 

[Satan's Right Hand Man]

Can you please provide evidence that the ONA exists outside of Internet forum postings, blogs, and some people claiming or rumored to be involved with it?

I second this motion! I too have looked everywhere on the internet for proof, and all I can find on the internet are internet people claiming to be ONA on the internet! Am I doing something wrong? Or does the ONA only exist on the internet. I have looked everywhere on the internet for proof that it exist outside the internet, and all can can find is internet stuff.

 

[hollow]

Do it in your own boring, repetitive, mundane, failed threads. This thread is for the Temple of THEM.

 

[1137]

I'm curious as to why it matters if something "only" exists on the internet?

 

[kerriscott]

I'd like them to delete kerriscott who is debating what THEM is and trying to turn this thread about the Temple of THEM into another failed and boring o9a one.

Interesting and indicative reply, given that you haven't responded to any of the questions I asked you about your 'temple', about yourself, about your claims to have 'members', and about how what you're propagating seems to be basically just repackaged O9A material.

So, instead of replying to my questions, you want my posts about asking you such questions deleted!

 

[kerriscott]

I second this motion! I too have looked everywhere on the internet for proof, and all I can find on the internet are internet people claiming to be ONA on the internet! Am I doing something wrong? Or does the ONA only exist on the internet. I have looked everywhere on the internet for proof that it exist outside the internet, and all can can find is internet stuff.

1. Some of the people who currently associate themselves with the O9A, and who also have some presence on the internet, actually use their real names. Thus, these people are not anonymous 'internet people'. Here are just four examples - Ryan F who lives in Yorkshire England; Darryl H who lives in North Carolina; Joel H who lives in Iceland; Roxana H who lives in Russia.

2. Some of the people who, in the past, associated themselves with the O9A, and who also had some presence on the internet, also or subsequently used their real names. Thus, those people were not anonymous 'internet people'. A few examples are Richard Moult, Kerry Bolton, Stephen Cox, Michael Ford, and EA Koetting.

3. Given the 'heretical' and genuinely adversarial nature of the O9A - with its advocacy of culling, terrorism, political and religious extremism - obviously most people prefer to remain anonymous, and thus - if they have an internet presence at all (which many do not) - they prefer to use pseudonyms. However, given the languages they use, and given the diversity of material produced, it should be obvious that these are diverse, and real, individuals. Examples are the artwork and articles produced by the Russian Temple of the Black Sun; the articles in Portuguese of a Brazilian nexion; the articles in Slovene; the items the Italian Secuntra Nexion has produced, in Italian of course; the chants of the Deverills Nexion based in England (some are on youtube); the O9A material, in Polish, of a Polish nexion; and so on. There's even now a blog which has made some of this international O9A material more readily available.

Now, if some people still want to or need to believe that all these things - in their diversity - are produced by "one anonymous internet person" then they do, although reason most certainly indicatives otherwise.

4. What draws many of these people - anonymous or otherwise, past and present - to the O9A is that it has substance, in the real, documented, world. That is, beyond and independent of the internet. This substance is the documented 'sinisterly-numinous' life of David Myatt, whom most people assume or believe was Anton Long and who founded the O9A in the 1970s and whose writings form the basis for the esoteric philosophy of the O9A.

It is his strange and documented life which gives credibility, in the real world, to the O9A. Especially as an example of what following the O9A's Left Hand Path 'seven fold way' personally involves.

"In modern occultism there are four main exponents of, and/or expositions of, what is often referred to as Left Hand Path, and/or Satanic, esotericism. These are Anton LaVey and the Church of Satan; Michael Aquino and the Temple of Set; Aleister Crowley and Thelema; and Anton Long and the Order of Nine Angles.

Whatever one's opinion of the Church of Satan, the Temple of Set, Thelema, or the Order of Nine Angles, they all to great extent reflect the known and documented life, the personality, and the ideas or beliefs, of the person most associated with them and who first expounded, or who first effectively codified, the ideas/beliefs/praxis – or the esoteric philosophy – evident in them." Source - A Modern Mage | Regarding David Myatt​

Thus, unlike the so-called 'temple of them' - which is the product of one anonymous internet person - one can only conclude that the O9A has substance far beyond the internet.

 

[kerriscott]

I'm curious as to why it matters if something "only" exists on the internet?

My personal view is that, in respect of the LHP/satanism, it matters in the following instances. (i) If a person claims they have founded or belong to a temple/lodge/coven/group that has members. (ii) If a person claims to have undertaken sorcery/rituals and thus claim or lead others to suppose they have practical occult experience. (iii) If a person makes claims about themselves and their deeds, sinister/satanic or otherwise. (iv) If a person claims to have developed some new take on the LHP/satanism, or puts forward what purports to be their own original 'esoteric philosophy'.

Without some supporting documentation - as in having a documented reputation, or documented experience in the real world - then, IMO, they and their writings lack credibility. Such individuals are either puffers indulging in puffery, or they are charlatans.

 

[1137]

This forum does not exist outside the internet, yet we are all members of it. It's full of occult experiences and practices - it'd be impossible to put out much writing without it. Creating an entire religion / philosophy, even if it's just for you, is vastly more impressive than simply following someone else's.

 

[kerriscott]

This forum does not exist outside the internet, yet we are all members of it. It's full of occult experiences and practices - it'd be impossible to put out much writing without it. .

The internet is just a modern, and sometimes quite useful, means of disseminating information and exchanging and discussing ideas - in our case here, about matters occult.

There's no problem with anonymous people disseminating information or discussing stuff with other anonymous people, but there is a problem (at least for me and some others) when anonymous people make certain unverified claims, such as about themselves, about their deeds, their experience, or about some group they claim to have created or be a member of.

Creating an entire religion / philosophy, even if it's just for you, is vastly more impressive than simply following someone else's

Indeed, but in the majority of instances such claims to have done so - by some anonymous person - usually turn out to be bogus or just laughable. Often, they've just repackaged something already existing, sometimes just by using some different terms.

If they're really proud of what they've done, and really believe it to be original, then wouldn't they put their real name to it? [Aside: people like Michael Ford and EA Koetting come to mind here, in relation to prior association with the O9A and then, using their real names, establishing their own weltanschauung.]

It's just suspicious when some anonymous person claims originality, or is assumed by others to be original, and yet refuses to answer pertinent questions about what they've claimed about themselves, about what they've claimed about their 'temple', and about their so-called 'philosophy' being just repackaged O9A ideas with a few other ideas from other sources thrown into the mix.

Also, there's a vast difference between creating a religion or a philosophy (esoteric or otherwise) and developing your own weltanschauung (and having a few people admire that weltanschauung).

 

[1137]

Why does anyone owe it to anyone else to release their identity? I'm proud of my own works but I don't release my identity, it's only wise not to especially in certain concepts. I work with people and plan to further where my very career would be at risk if I was some widely known author on Luciferian philosophy. Some know, yes. Bit I'd never announce my identity somewhere like hete.

I also question what's wrong with repackaging? That's the fundamental strength of occultism (from a psychological view)! You'd be hard pressed to find true originality in any context.

 

[1137]

Of course, you understand that your statement implies that you value your career in a higher regard than your philosophy, be it Luciferian or otherwise?

Disagree. I think that "Luciferian" is simply a label, and labels simply make it easier to communicate. Labels are also symbols in themselves, meant either to affect others or yourself, in this case myself (whereas in high school the label "Satanist" was certainly for others). Not to mention that my philosophy is about practice and how we act, not so religious in nature from an outsiders view. I am myself in every situation relative to context. However, some people simply don't listen to explanations of such labels, people that I can help but may drive away simply due to their own ignorance and indoctrination - things they can only partially be held responsible for. Considering that my career is based around my philosophy and my philosophy is based around helping people help themselves there is no contradiction in my values.