1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Australia abuse, Archbishop rejects call to report confessions.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by England my lionheart, Dec 16, 2017.

  1. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    16,766
    Ratings:
    +2,453
    Religion:
    Atheist
    A senior member of the Roman Catholic Church in Australia has rejected a key recommendation of a landmark inquiry into child sex abuse.

    It said priests should report abuse confided to them, even in the secret context of the confessional.

    But the archbishop of Melbourne said any priest who broke the seal of confession would be excommunicated.

    This means they would cease to be a member of the Church and would no longer be allowed a Catholic funeral.

    The Most Rev Denis Hart said a law requiring this of priests would undermine a central tenet of Catholicism, the sacredness of the confessional.

    The seal of the confessional, or the relationship with God that's carried through the priest and with the person, is inviolable," he said.

    In a statement, the Vatican said the report "deserved to be studied seriously".

    The five-year inquiry's final report said institutions had "seriously failed" to protect children.
    Source Church 'must keep' abuse confession seal

    This I find discussting, how many children have continued to suffer because of this and how many paedophiles have been to confession and abused again.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  2. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    I am not Catholic, nor I am trying to defend its sins and practices.

    However, since the confessional is such an integrated part of that church, you would destroy the church if they had to report confessions of illegal activities.
    The question then is - do lawyers have this kind of confessional like protection from the law? If the church shouldn't enjoy it, neither should lawyers.
     
  3. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    16,766
    Ratings:
    +2,453
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Fair point but the difference is the lawyer is part of the law process, if the lawyer loses the case the the defendant gets punished, some may win but a guilty paedophile who confesses to a priest zilch.
     
  4. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    Is it the person who has suffered (unless dead) that is supposed to bring the crime to the attention of the law?

    While I don't believe in the Catholic confession and its workings because I believe in confession in prayer to God, and I believe that I shall be punished by God for my serious sins, I still believe that turning everyone in the church into a taltletale is improper.

    Let's say you make this happen, and all of a sudden the church tells on everybody. How many churchgoers, priests, do you think will go to confession after this change happens? I don't think it takes a rocket scientist to calculate the number of people going from that point on, unless you speak of things like getting drunk, using drugs, or condoms. :D

    All you will succeed in doing is destroying that church. But, I am not a Catholic so it is not really my problem.
    --------------
    I know the JW have a problem with this too. But, they are actually disobeying the Bible in what they are doing:
    Romans 13:1-2 13 Let every soul be in subjection to the superior authorities, for there is no authority except by God; the existing authorities stand placed in their relative positions by God. 2 Therefore he who opposes the authority has taken a stand against the arrangement of God; those who have taken a stand against it will receive judgment to themselves.​
    Since their judicial body in the congregations gets the information about abuse from the victim, it is wrong of them not to report serious crimes to the authorities. They should tell people in their congregations that it would be proper and good for them to report serious abuse to the police.

    I do not understand why they don't.
     
    #4 Grandliseur, Dec 16, 2017
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2017
  5. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    16,766
    Ratings:
    +2,453
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Whether the church survives or not I don't really give a crap, my concern are the victims of these monsters.
     
    • Winner Winner x 6
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    I just updated my answer. You might want to read it again???

    Yes, that is how some think. But, are you the one that is going to make that decision? That is the question. In cases of sexual abuse, the victims can speak out, as many are doing now. It is big in the news recently.

    I don't think it is the right time yet for the churches to be done away with. It is coming soon, just not today.
    I would also say, that when robber police and killer police exists who can commit serious wrongdoing blessed by the courts, something more than social justice is needed. And, we are seeing how some begin to go after wrongdoers by themselves. It is anarchy, but it is the only way to get justice sometimes in our modern world.
     
  7. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    16,766
    Ratings:
    +2,453
    Religion:
    Atheist
    Children may not speak out for years, its well publicised about priests abusing children so they can get forgiveness from another priest, bottom dollar should be nobody is above the law I'm.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,457
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    The way I understood it, is that they are in trouble because the criminal elements game that system with their knowledge of it. If you confess your crimes to your employer, he will have to deny any knowledge of them and can breathe easy and also continue their crimes.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  9. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,572
    Ratings:
    +8,030
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    I completely agree with the church on this. Confessions should be sealed.

    The only point is that the church should not protect sex abusers in its clergy. That is all.
     
  10. England my lionheart

    England my lionheart Rockerjahili Rebel
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2007
    Messages:
    16,766
    Ratings:
    +2,453
    Religion:
    Atheist
    For what reason should they be sealed?
     
  11. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    I don't see how you think you could force people to confess once the confessional becomes broken. So, if people confess to their lawyers let these not be able to hide either. Let the police robbers and killers be executed by firing squad.
     
  12. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    I don't see how you can get anyone to confess anything once the confessional church system is broken. It is not as if (I am actually ignorant as to the method except as seen on movies) you have recordings of confessions.
    I am not an employer. But, if an employee, or a son / daughter of mine - confessed to a horrible crime to me, I would turn them in. But, hearsay is only hearsay.
     
  13. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,572
    Ratings:
    +8,030
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Since they provide a safe space for people to open up about their misdeeds and provide a pathway for spiritual or psychological transformation that maybe helps them become better people moving forward. The state's job is to extend justice, while a church's job is to extend psychological and spiritual sustenance, while a doctor's job is to keep people physically healthy. The ability to have confidential discourse with priests is an important part of its proper function, I feel.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. Jumi

    Jumi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2014
    Messages:
    9,881
    Ratings:
    +5,457
    Religion:
    Secular theist (none)
    While they have this system, the criminals who want to abuse it, will abuse it. I think the confession shouldn't protect priests who are abusing their position. If they had any love for their own church, they would turn themselves in, instead of making the confessional a mockery.
     
  15. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,324
    Ratings:
    +42,894
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    Given the church's history of committing & furthering child sexual abuse,
    there should be no confidentiality regarding knowledge of crimes.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  16. sayak83

    sayak83 Well-Known Member
    Staff Member Premium Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2012
    Messages:
    8,572
    Ratings:
    +8,030
    Religion:
    Pluralist Hindu
    Priests should not be protected. But ordinary church members should.
     
  17. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Greased up & ready for action!
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2010
    Messages:
    151,324
    Ratings:
    +42,894
    Religion:
    Bokononism
    If priests take confession from someone who only thinks wrong thoughts, confidentiality is OK.
    But if a priest hears of a crime, it should be reported.
    No child should be fondled or f****d.
    The church should do all in its power to prevent it, & see that the perps are prosecuted.
    If the church fails at this, then they too should be prosecuted & imprisoned for life.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
    • Like Like x 1
  18. Kemosloby

    Kemosloby Well-Known Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2016
    Messages:
    5,122
    Ratings:
    +1,230
    Religion:
    Christian
    Definitely something wrong with them not reporting it. The "priest" would be sinning by not doing something about it. "anyone who sees the good he ought to do, and does it not, sins". The whole situation seems to show, by design, the ineffectiveness of the Catholic confessional. It just isn't right.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. Shadow Wolf

    Shadow Wolf Crazy Diamond

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2005
    Messages:
    55,725
    Ratings:
    +18,535
    Religion:
    God is in the Rain
    A religion that would allow child abuse to continue, and threaten those who would move to stop it with excommunication, are deserving of extinction.
     
    • Winner Winner x 5
  20. Grandliseur

    Grandliseur Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2008
    Messages:
    2,236
    Ratings:
    +576
    Religion:
    Pragmatic Christian
    Churches do what they do. If they claim to be able to forgive the sin, confessionals becomes a must. I am not defending their conduct, their confessionals, and systems.
    I am just pointing out that forcing them to provide information will just stop the people from trusting their confessors and stop the confessions. Nothing will change.
    Perhaps people will start confessing to the new priesthood, the lawyers instead. :):)
     
Loading...