Aussies to vote soon on whether to make gay marriage legal

[Jainarayan]

Slavery was a normal course of affairs back then. It was until the late 1800s.

 

[SomeRandom]

Slavery was a normal course of affairs back then. It was until the late 1800s.

If the Bible is supposed to be the eternal unalterable word of God, then why would it care about what mere humans thought as "normal?"
I mean I often see Christians say the Bible is against gay sex and that's that no matter what is considered normal by society. But if that is the case why would the Bible make an exception for slavery just because it was popular and mainstream at one point? Isn't the idea of God's law that it is above man's law, therefore it would never be subject to mankinds flaws?
Is it a work in progress or eternal?

 

[DavidFirth]

If the Bible is supposed to be the eternal unalterable word of God, then why would it care about what mere humans thought as "normal?"
I mean I often see Christians say the Bible is against gay sex and that's that no matter what is considered normal by society. But if that is the case why would the Bible make an exception for slavery just because it was popular and mainstream at one point? Isn't the idea of God's law that it is above man's law, therefore it would never be subject to mankinds flaws?
Is it a work in progress or eternal?

You do not understand the basic teaching of Christ. We are commanded to love others, even our enemies. We are not commanded to kill our masters to be free of them if we are slaves. We are commanded by Christ to pray for those who spitefully use us or do evil to us.

Therefore Paul did not teach slaves to cause turmoil but rather to serve their masters and pray for them in hopes of turning them to Christ.

We are commanded to suffer for doing right rather than do evil to others, including our enemies.

 

[leibowde84]

And you disagree?

I am asking. The 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law. Are Christians not responsible to follow the 10 Commandments?

 

[SomeRandom]

You do not understand the basic teaching of Christ. We are commanded to love others, even our enemies. We are not commanded to kill our masters to be free of them if we are slaves. We are commanded by Christ to pray for those who spitefully use us or do evil to us.

Therefore Paul did not teach slaves to cause turmoil but rather to serve their masters and pray for them in hopes of turning them to Christ.

We are commanded to suffer for doing right rather than do evil to others, including our enemies.

Why did Paul just not say, hey God does not approve of slavery? Seems a lot easier and far more loving. And it takes a stand on morality. Was he just a coward?

Also banning secular gay marriage, denying rights to strangers who's lives do not affect you, is being kind? Loving? Showing Christ's compassion? That's a good way to turn them away from Christ if you ask me.
Are they the slaves in this equation? Supposed to be treated as lesser and just do nothing?

 

[DavidFirth]

I am asking. The 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law. Are Christians not responsible to follow the 10 Commandments?

No, but rather Christ commanded us to observe stricter commandments than those.

Matthew 22
35One of them, an expert in the law, tested him with this question: 36“Teacher, which is the greatest commandment in the Law?”

37Jesus replied: “ ‘Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind.’ 38This is the first and greatest commandment. 39And the second is like it: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’d 40All the Law and the Prophets hang on these two commandments.”

Matthew 5
43“You have heard that it was said, ‘Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.’ 44But I tell you, love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you, 45that you may be children of your Father in heaven. He causes his sun to rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the righteous and the unrighteous. 46If you love those who love you, what reward will you get? Are not even the tax collectors doing that? 47And if you greet only your own people, what are you doing more than others? Do not even pagans do that? 48Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect.


Actually, the entire chapter 5 of Matthew of the sermon on the mount should be observed.

 

[DavidFirth]

Why did Paul just not say, hey God does not approve of slavery? Seems a lot easier and far more loving. And it takes a stand on morality. Was he just a coward?

Also banning secular gay marriage, denying rights to strangers who's lives do not affect you, is being kind? Loving? Showing Christ's compassion? That's a good way to turn them away from Christ if you ask me.
Are they the slaves in this equation? Supposed to be treated as lesser and just do nothing?

Paul was led by the Holy Spirit in what he said and did. When he spoke from his own mind and not the Spirit he said so.

I will not judge either the Holy Spirit or the Apostle Paul.

Sin is simply not acceptable to God. You can twist your words around anyway you like, you cannot change this simple fact. Homosexuality, adultery and fornication are all sin and are not acceptable in God's sight, no matter the circumstances.

A person cannot serve sin and please Holy God at the same time. It simply is not possible. It is a good thing we can be saved by faith, then.

 

[SomeRandom]

Paul was led by the Holy Spirit in what he said and did. When he spoke from his own mind and not the Spirit he said so.

I will not judge either the Holy Spirit or the Apostle Paul.

Sin is simply not acceptable to God. You can twist your words around anyway you like, you cannot change this simple fact. Homosexuality, adultery and fornication are all sin and are not acceptable in God's sight, no matter the circumstances.

A person cannot serve sin and please Holy God at the same time. It simply is not possible. It is a good thing we can be saved by faith, then.

So God does not care about slavery? Does not consider it a sin? Even freely allowing it when he could have been clear to His followers that it was not acceptable.
But the private lives of gay people are sinful? Did He just find slavery amusing to watch? Is God a nosy busybody more concerned about the sex lives of humans than He is about people actively forcing others to be slaves? That's some messed up prioties!

 

[DavidFirth]

So God does not care about slavery? Does not consider it a sin? Even freely allowing it when he could have been clear to His followers that it was not acceptable.
But the private lives of gay people are sinful? Did He just find slavery amusing to watch? Is God a nosy busybody more concerned about the sex lives of humans than He is about people actively forcing others to be slaves? That's some messed up prioties!

If you continue to ignore my answers, why then do you question me?

Question somebody else, then.

 

[SomeRandom]

If you continue to ignore my answers, why then do you question me?

Question somebody else, then.

You basically answered "just coz." That's not an answer that's deflection. I'm asking about the implications, trying to apply critical thinking to the justifications used by both sides. You are free to not question your God, but I like questioning things.

 

[Jainarayan]

We are commanded by Christ to pray for those who spitefully use us or do evil to us.

Therefore Paul did not teach slaves to cause turmoil but rather to serve their masters and pray for them in hopes of turning them to Christ.

So the slaves should pray for their freedom because slavery is evil. This causes a problem if the masters already profess to be Christian. Is it ok to be Christian and own slaves?

 

[Jainarayan]

If you continue to ignore my answers, why then do you question me?

Question somebody else, then.

Your answers are non-sequiturs and cherry-picking at its finest.

 

[DavidFirth]

Your answers are non-sequiturs and cherry-picking at its finest.

Fine, so you've determined that my answers are unsatisfactory.

So ask someone else.

 

[DavidFirth]

So the slaves should pray for their freedom because slavery is evil. This causes a problem if the masters already profess to be Christian. Is it ok to be Christian and own slaves?

Good question. You've read Matthew 5, what do you think? Stop asking me questions if you don't like my answers. I'm not going to sugarcoat anything for you.

 

[Revoltingest]

I am asking. The 10 Commandments are part of Mosaic Law. Are Christians not responsible to follow the 10 Commandments?

I wonder.....
If the 10 Commandments address banned acts ranging from the minor
(cursing) to the major (killing), why not ban enslavement of others?
If they are indeed the word of God, this appears to be his tacit approval of slavery.

 

[Jainarayan]

Fine, so you've determined that my answers are unsatisfactory.

So ask someone else.

I'm asking you.

 

[Jainarayan]

Good question. You've read Matthew 5, what do you think? Stop asking me questions if you don't like my answers. I'm not going to sugarcoat anything for you.

I've read Matthew many times. I know what it says. I don't see its words being twisted like Olive Oyl the way you're doing.

 

[leibowde84]

I wonder.....
If the 10 Commandments address banned acts ranging from the minor
(cursing) to the major (killing), why not ban enslavement of others?
If they are indeed the word of God, this appears to be his tacit approval of slavery.

I think, at that point, outlawing slavery would have blown their little minds.

 

[Revoltingest]

I think, at that point, outlawing slavery would have blown their little minds.

No more so than prohibiting the consumption of bacon cheeseburgers
while coveting me neighbor's wife to pi$$ off me parents.

 

[leibowde84]

No more so than prohibiting the consumption of bacon cheeseburgers
while coveting me neighbor's wife to pi$$ off me parents.

Considering that bacon cheeseburgers didn't exist and slavery surely did, I don't think that is a fair comparison.