Attention All Creationists, Here's Your Big Chance

[Subduction Zone]

They can swirch to modular phased phonics if they like.
You will still be mistaken.

How so? Cladistics is simple and consistent. It is why more and more biologists are switching over that as a classification system.

 

[Subduction Zone]

None believe in speciation*, speciation being the contention of modern science.


*Speciation is the evolutionary process by which populations evolve to become distinct species.
Source: Wikipedia

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Some ID believers might more accurately be said to be believers in theistic evolution. Such as Behe and Dembski. They accept common descent but said that God helped. Sort of the Shake n' Bake version of evolution. Picture a little ineffective god saying "life evolved, and I helped!"

 

[Sky Rivers]

None believe in speciation*, speciation being the contention of modern science.


*Speciation is the evolutionary process by which populations evolve to become distinct species.
Source: Wikipedia

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Really? I’ve met those who do.

 

[Sky Rivers]

Some ID believers might more accurately be said to be believers in theistic evolution. Such as Behe and Dembski. They accept common descent but said that God helped. Sort of the Shake n' Bake version of evolution. Picture a little ineffective god saying "life evolved, and I helped!"

Outside of that quip being rude, it’s also inaccurate, least as far as my experience with IDs goes. They maintain that the intelligent agent, originated matter and created the engine which brought life into existence. Many also believe that the intelligent agent, guided the course of that life, giving rise to humanity.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Modern biology is switching over to cladistics as its method of classification. I already linked a Berkeley article, perhaps Wiki will do the trick:

Cladistics - Wikipedia

Of course they are..... it is much easier to "Hypothesized relationships" from "missing common ancestors" that can't be found for any claimed split on any evolutionary tree for any creature than it is to actually have to show a relationship....

 

[Subduction Zone]

Outside of that quip being rude, it’s also inaccurate, least as far as my experience with IDs goes. They maintain that the intelligent agent, originated matter and created the engine which brought life into existence. Many also believe that the intelligent agent, guided the course of that life, giving rise to humanity.

Rude? Not really. The God of creationists is a weak and ineffective God. The problem with ID is that it is not science. It is religion. It cannot be taught in schools. There is no scientific evidence for it.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

This post only tells us that you do not understand the nature of evidence or how evidence works.

Would you like to take a short side trip and try to learn?

And of course no dog can turn into a salmon:

And no fish can turn into a dog.... yet this is precisely what evolution asks.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Rude? Not really. The God of creationists is a weak and ineffective God. The problem with ID is that it is not science. It is religion. It cannot be taught in schools. There is no scientific evidence for it.

versus claiming common ancestors that can't be found for any single creature for every single tree for every claimed split and calling the lack of evidence science??????

 

[Subduction Zone]

Of course they are..... it is much easier to "Hypothesized relationships" from "missing common ancestors" that can't be found for any claimed split on any evolutionary tree for any creature than it is to actually have to show a relationship....

And yet we have countless examples of "splits". To understand the fact that there are mountains of scientific evidence for evolution and none for creationism one must first understand the concept of evidence. We have found more than enough "missing links" so much so that all creationists can do is to continually move the goal posts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

And no fish can turn into a dog.... yet this is precisely what evolution asks.....

But a "fish" did turn into a dog. That is observed. The problem with "kinds" is that it is an undefined term.

Tell me, how would you tell if two groups are of the same "kind" or not?

 

[Subduction Zone]

versus claiming common ancestors that can't be found for any single creature for every single tree for every claimed split and calling the lack of evidence science??????

They have been found. You only make unreasonable demands. Why do you keep repeating things that you should know are false? It demonstrates either dishonesty or ignorance. When one does not understand it is best to ask questions. And politely and properly. If an improper question is asked I will explain why it is improper and give you another chance.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

ERVs provide the closest thing to a mathematical proof for evolution.. ERVs are the relics of ancient viral infections preserved in our DNA. The odd thing is many ERVs are located in exactly the same position on our genome and the chimpanzee genome! There are two explanations for the perfectly matched ERV locations. Either it is an unbelievable coincidence that viruses just by chance were inserted in exactly the same location in our genomes, or humans and chimps share a common ancestor. The chances that a virus was inserted at the exact same location is 1 in 3,000,000,000. Humans and chimps share 7 instances of viruses inserted at perfectly matched location. It was our common ancestor that was infected, and we both inherited the ERVs.

Johnson, Welkin E.; Coffin, John M. (1999-08-31). "Constructing primate phylogenies from ancient retrovirus sequences". Proceedings of the National Academy of Sciences. 96(18): 10254–10260. Bibcode:1999PNAS...9610254J. doi:10.1073/pnas.96.18.10254. ISSN 0027-8424. PMC 17875. PMID 10468595.

ERV's prove no such thing since virus simply develop attack routines for similar cells. They are located in the same locations because that is the type of cells those ERV's have devloped specific invasion routines for.....

You are confusing Invasion when two separate species lived alongside one another as meaning common descent.

If Virus did not attack the same similar sites, then genetic alteration could never be performed. It would produce random results, not specific results.

The chances that a virus was inserted in the exact same position in similar cells is 100%, since that is exactly why genetic alterations work. They use virus that attack only specific types of cells and insert their genetic alteration into the exact place wanted. If the odds were 1 in 3,000,000,000 as you claim, then genetic alteration of specific cell types would be virtually impossible. So we can discount your numbers as pure hyperbole.....

Notice readers he shys away from a number such as 1 in 3,000,000,000 yet gladly accepts one 10,000 times larger as fact when it comes to the odds of life from non-life..... Numbers made up out of the air to suit their pseudoscientific beliefs. Odds are not a hindrance except when they don't want to believe something....

Anytime an evolutionists starts quoting odds, you can be sure he or she is trying to avoid reality....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

They have been found. You only make unreasonable demands. Why do you keep repeating things that you should know are false? It demonstrates either dishonesty or ignorance. When one does not understand it is best to ask questions. And politely and properly. If an improper question is asked I will explain why it is improper and give you another chance.

My demands are not unreasonable. I simply ask you to show me ONE common ancestor that split to become something else......

 

[Subduction Zone]

ERV's prove no such thing since virus simply develop attack routines for similar cells. They are located in the same locations because that is the type of cells those ERV's have devloped specific invasion routines for.....

You are confusing Invasion when two separate species lived alongside one another as meaning common descent.

If Virus did not attack the same similar sites, then genetic alteration could never be performed. It would produce random results, not specific results.

The chances that a virus was inserted in the exact same position in similar cells is 100%, since that is exactly why genetic alterations work. They use virus that attack only specific types of cells and insert their genetic alteration into the exact place wanted. If the odds were 1 in 3,000,000,000 as you claim, then genetic alteration of specific cell types would be virtually impossible. So we can discount your numbers as pure hyperbole.....

Notice readers he shys away from a number such as 1 in 3,000,000,000 yet gladly accepts one 10,000 times larger as fact when it comes to the odds of life from non-life..... Numbers made up out of the air to suit their pseudoscientific beliefs. Odds are not a hindrance except when they don't want to believe something....

Anytime an evolutionists starts quoting odds, you can be sure he or she is trying to avoid reality....

Prove it. Find a peer reviewed paper that supports this claim. Do you even know what an ERV is? This post indicates that you do not.

 

[Subduction Zone]

My demands are not unreasonable. I simply ask you to show me ONE common ancestor that split to become something else......

Of course it is unreasonable. It demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of what you are arguing against. It demonstrates that you do not even understand the concept of evidence.

First learn what evidence is and then you can make demands.

 

[Justatruthseeker]

But a "fish" did turn into a dog. That is observed. The problem with "kinds" is that it is an undefined term.

Tell me, how would you tell if two groups are of the same "kind" or not?

It's well defined. In fact it's the first definition in the dictionary... It's your term species that has 26 separate definitions and is not well defined to the extent they admit to having a species problem...

Definition of SPECIES

a : kind, sort
b : a class of individuals having common attributes and designated by a common name specifically : a logical division of a genus or more comprehensive class confessing sins in species and in number
c : the human race : human beings —often used with the survival of the species in the nuclear age
d(1) : a category of biological classification ranking immediately below the genus or subgenus, comprising related organisms or populations potentially capable of interbreeding, and being designated by a binomial that consists of the name of a genus followed by a Latin or latinized uncapitalized noun or adjective agreeing grammatically with the genus name
(2) : an individual or kind belonging to a biological species
e : a particular kind of atomic nucleus, atom, molecule, or ion

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Prove it. Find a peer reviewed paper that supports this claim. Do you even know what an ERV is? This post indicates that you do not.

Apparently you don't understand that it is a foreign retrovirus that is known to carry DNA from one host to another.....

 

[Justatruthseeker]

Of course it is unreasonable. It demonstrates a basic misunderstanding of what you are arguing against. It demonstrates that you do not even understand the concept of evidence.

First learn what evidence is and then you can make demands.

And yet you are still unable to produce a single common ancestor, which is supposed to be the basis for your cladistic classifications.

So basically your classifications are all based on hypothesized common ancestors that can't be found, because they never existed and so one can say they contain any features one likes....

So your classifications are all based upon imagination of what a common ancestor would look like, yet it can't be found because nothing looks like it.....

 

[Skwim]

Some ID believers might more accurately be said to be believers in theistic evolution. Such as Behe and Dembski. They accept common descent but said that God helped. Sort of the Shake n' Bake version of evolution. Picture a little ineffective god saying "life evolved, and I helped!"

The difference, as I understand it, is that ID asserts that living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. In other words, like the assertions of creationism, the entire diversity of life was created at one moment, that moment being related in the book of Genesis; although they would never openly admit the Bible part.

In contrast, theistic evolution simply addresses the origin of life, which evolution doesn't concern itself with, and says that god started it. It's simply evolution +. So I wouldn't put them in the same camp as the IDers.

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[Justatruthseeker]

The difference as I understand it is that ID asserts that living things are best explained by an intelligent cause, not an undirected process such as natural selection. In other words, like the assertions of creationism, the entire diversity of life was created at one moment, that moment being related in the book of Genesis; although they would never openly admit the Bible part.

In contrast, theistic evolution simply addresses the origin of life, which evolution doesn't concern itself with, and says that god started it. It's simply evolution +. So I wouldn't put them in the same camp as the IDers.

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What evolution?

Ahhh, you mean mistaken classifications....

Husky mates with Husky and produces only Husky. Mastiff mates with Mastiff and produces only Mastiff. Only when Husky mates with Mastiff is variation (the Chinook) seen within the species. It comes into the record suddenly, with no single visible common ancestor. But this is important to understand. neither the Husky nor the Mastiff evolved into the Chinook. The Husky remained Husky and the Mastiff remained Mastiff.... Exactly what we observe in the fossil record....

I understand they merely have bones in the fossil record. They can not see what mated with what. If all they had were bones of the Husky, Mastiff and Chinook, and the Chinook appeared later in the stratum, they would conclude the Husky or Mastiff evolved into the Chinook. The common ancestor where the split occurred would be missing because it never existed....