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Atheists what should God do to make you believe in ?

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
I had to google "zlortids" to realize it's something you made up lol. Anyway, I think you might be missing my point, more on this on the reply to the comment below.

That was sort of my point.

The whole point of my question, which was "How do YOU define God? Please provide your definition and the evidence it would take to convince YOU of your pre defined God" was to see if you have any idea or concept of God. Forget what every person and religion has ever said about God or what they believe God is. The point of my question and the capitalized "YOU" was for, you, Polymath, to define what you think God is and then provide what it would take for YOU to believe in "your" God.

I don't know what God is. Everyone I ask seems to use a different definition. There seems to be no consistency in the different concepts and I find all of them rather unlikely (except for those identifying the universe with God, which seems more like an abuse of language).

Why would I *want* to define what the term 'God' means? Why would I want to define what 'zlortids' are? Everyone else is using the word: let them figure it out and let me know what the consensus is. Then I will decide if I believe in it or not.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
You do not seem to understand. We don't believe in any gods, it is not up to atheists to define him. It is not possible to define something that one lacks a belief in.

Well, first off the conversation was not with you. Anyway, I understand the position of an Atheist but, from what I can tell Polymath is a Non-Theist, not an Atheist and from what I read those are 2 different things. In any case, if you can't define something that you lack belief in then, that's fine however, how do you lack belief something just because you can't define it? Just does not make sense to me to say I lack belief in something simply because I don't understand it or believe in it
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Let's run through your post:

"There is literally nothing that can be done to convince Atheists of a God. I don't know why people are still trying"

As already has been explained to you a God or god would know how to convince us. If nothing can be done to convince us that means that there is no God. That was the logical conclusion of your claim.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
Why would I *want* to define what the term 'God' means? Why would I want to define what 'zlortids' are? Everyone else is using the word: let them figure it out and let me know what the consensus is. Then I will decide if I believe in it or not.

Ok well it seems we are still on 2 different pages and that's fine. Thank you for your replies.
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
Well, first off the conversation was not with you. Anyway, I understand the position of an Atheist but, from what I can tell Polymath is a Non-Theist, not an Atheist and from what I read those are 2 different things. In any case, if you can't define something that you lack belief in then, that's fine however, how do you lack belief something just because you can't define it? Just does not make sense to me to say I lack belief in something simply because I don't understand it or believe in it

I am closer to an ignostic or an apatheist. I have yet to hear a coherent definition of the concept of a God and I'm not all that interested.

I lack a belief in God, partly because I lack a notion of God. So, in that sense, I am an atheist. NONE of the standard definitions make any sense to me--I don't believe they describe an existing being.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well, first off the conversation was not with you. Anyway, I understand the position of an Atheist but, from what I can tell Polymath is a Non-Theist, not an Atheist and from what I read those are 2 different things. In any case, if you can't define something that you lack belief in then, that's fine however, how do you lack belief something just because you can't define it? Just does not make sense to me to say I lack belief in something simply because I don't understand it or believe in it
No, atheist is a big tent. What do you think that an atheist is?

And you seem to rather confused about gods. There are countless different versions of god. An atheist cannot say whether they believe in something until the believers define what that god is first. If someone clearly defined the Norse Gods I would almost surely say "I do not believe in those gods". There is a possibility that a god could be defined that we believe in, but it is hard to be 100% sure until someone defines what their god is.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Not even close but that's fine let's just agree to disagree. I really dislike having to constantly rephrase what I said because people choose to interpret what I say in way to fit what they hope I said.
It was. I am afraid that you are not following the logic of your statement when one considers what has already been posted here. Context matters.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Well, I don't know. I'm an atheist. So, if I answered my own question, since I've never known of a god the closest definition I can get (from others) is an experience or a source of spiritual awakening. At times I think it could be something believers personified. Other times when they say he did this or that, it makes me think of mythological gods especially in scripture in how its written and what the concept of the christian god has done.

So, as an atheist, the closest description I have (therefore ability to discuss it) is the christian god insofar my definition being either an experience or a mythological being. Though, I side for the former only because most people I talk to who believe in god experience him not hear him in an audible voice or see him dance in the stars (or how some say, be pink unicorn or spaghetti monster).

Another example on the opposite side would be if I asked the christian the same thing, his or her concept of god is, well, jesus christ. Jesus christ was human so it's easier for me to give a definition of that particular "god" because I have interacted with humans before.

I do feel the question is logical-how can you, say, blame someone that doesn't exist-but many people have christian upbringing and in my opinion using the god as a scapegoat for how they feel about believers claims of god. However, to ask about god itself, I'm sure they have some sort of concept or they wouldn't be (or couldnt) talk about it.

Trying to find a consistent definition for God feels pretty futile. Even among Christians. So I try as best I can to ask the "believer" to define their God. So IMO, how a believer defines God is really a reflection on them.

I suppose what you are saying though is some atheists use their own (the atheist's) personal definition to attack the position of the believer. Maybe, I think sometimes that this "personal" definition for God came from other believers.

Many Christians feel they have among themselves a consistent definition of the God they believe in. They don't. However, an atheist may find themselves getting caught up in that assumption and using what has been defined by other Christians to attack a claim.

So IMO, God is a fiction created by our subconscious mind. The subconscious mind files away all the information about God, religion, what we hear, what we see and uses it to create and God for us using our feelings and to a degree our senses to support the existence of this God.

While there is some commonality about the information we received the rest, what we see what we hear what we read is unique to us. So while some similarities exist, the God each individual experiences is unique.

If you want a definition of God, there exists as many definitions of God as there are minds available to consider such a definition.

For God to prove they exist they would need to prove they are more than a fiction created by the subconscious mind.

Considering how many definitions for God exist, this is not looking good.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
There are countless different versions of god.

And that was my whole point, I am 100% sure that you, with over 33K post has given enough thought to "God". My question is, given all your experience with the various gods, if YOU had to "customize" what YOU think God really is or should be, how would you define/build/customize that God? If your response is along the lines of "I cant "customize" something I lack belief in" then that's fine.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And that was my whole point, I am 100% sure that you, with over 33K post has given enough thought to "God". My question is, given all your experience with the various gods, if YOU had to "customize" what YOU think God really is or should be, how would you define/build/customize that God? If your response is along the lines of "I cant "customize" something I lack belief in" then that's fine.

I cannot really customize a version of God. No matter what version I made up it would not be the version of some believer. That is why it is necessary for believers to define their god. All I can say for sure is that there is no god that has been presented to me that I believe is real. What you are requesting is for someone to create a strawman of some sort. And I do not like to create strawmen. It is a rather pointless pursuit.
 

Earthtank

Active Member
No matter what version I made up it would not be the version of some believer

The believers don't care what you think about their version so why would you? Also it seems you forget that I said "Forget what every person and religion has ever said about God or what they believe God is". You are honestly way over complicating this whole thing

What you are requesting is for someone to create a strawman of some sort

I am honestly not. I am seeing if my statement of saying that nothing can be done to convince an atheist of god is true or not. I honestly do not care if i am right or not, I am simply trying to find out if i am right or wrong, I was honestly hoping to be wrong but you are proving me right (unfortunately).

It is a rather pointless pursuit.

Agreed. This whole exchange has been
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
The believers don't care what you think about their version so why would you? Also it seems you forget that I said "Forget what every person and religion has ever said about God or what they believe God is". You are honestly way over complicating this whole thing

Because unlike some, I am honest. It appears that you are implying that believers are not honest. This is not the case for all believers, though sadly it is the case for some.
I am honestly not. I am seeing if my statement of saying that nothing can be done to convince an atheist of god is true or not. I honestly do not care if i am right or not, I am simply trying to find out if i am right or wrong, I was honestly hoping to be wrong but you are proving me right (unfortunately).

You might not understand it, but that is what your request amounts to. No matter what version an atheist comes up with you are likely to say "Well that is not my God". It is not up to use to define all of the possible gods out there.

Agreed. This whole exchange has been

And why is that? You made a poor request even after it was explained to you why it was a poor request.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
Trying to find a consistent definition for God feels pretty futile. Even among Christians. So I try as best I can to ask the "believer" to define their God. So IMO, how a believer defines God is really a reflection on them.

I suppose what you are saying though is some atheists use their own (the atheist's) personal definition to attack the position of the believer. Maybe, I think sometimes that this "personal" definition for God came from other believers.

Many Christians feel they have among themselves a consistent definition of the God they believe in. They don't. However, an atheist may find themselves getting caught up in that assumption and using what has been defined by other Christians to attack a claim.

So IMO, God is a fiction created by our subconscious mind. The subconscious mind files away all the information about God, religion, what we hear, what we see and uses it to create and God for us using our feelings and to a degree our senses to support the existence of this God.

While there is some commonality about the information we received the rest, what we see what we hear what we read is unique to us. So while some similarities exist, the God each individual experiences is unique.

If you want a definition of God, there exists as many definitions of God as there are minds available to consider such a definition.

For God to prove they exist they would need to prove they are more than a fiction created by the subconscious mind.

Considering how many definitions for God exist, this is not looking good.

Thank you. Ill have to get back to fully comment. That was really I wanted to ask pretty much. An opinion
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
And that was my whole point, I am 100% sure that you, with over 33K post has given enough thought to "God". My question is, given all your experience with the various gods, if YOU had to "customize" what YOU think God really is or should be, how would you define/build/customize that God? If your response is along the lines of "I cant "customize" something I lack belief in" then that's fine.

What's the point of customizing? To find *something* you believe in and then label that as 'God'? Isn't that rather dishonest? What's the need to find something to label as 'God'?
 

Polymath257

Think & Care
Staff member
Premium Member
The believers don't care what you think about their version so why would you? Also it seems you forget that I said "Forget what every person and religion has ever said about God or what they believe God is". You are honestly way over complicating this whole thing

In that case, I would simply not use the term 'God' at all.

I am honestly not. I am seeing if my statement of saying that nothing can be done to convince an atheist of god is true or not. I honestly do not care if i am right or not, I am simply trying to find out if i am right or wrong, I was honestly hoping to be wrong but you are proving me right (unfortunately).

I have stated what would be required: a definition that is coherent and an observable phenomenon best explained by the existence of something given by that definition.

Theists are the ones that seem to get bent out of shape when atheists don't believe in 'God'. Why is that? What is so important about believing in a concept I make up for myself that uses the same word as you do for some other concept?

Agreed. This whole exchange has been

I am confused why you want someone to define the concept of God. Does it not have a meaning? If so, what is that meaning? Why should *I*, someone who has not yet found a believable concept of God that is non-trivial, be asked to define a word everyone else seems to be using?

Let those who think they understand the concept define it and provide evidence of it.
 

chinu

chinu
It is not up to me to provide a solution it is up to the god, if said god is unable to provide a solution to prove there existence then they are not worthy of godhood and as i say, that is not my problem.
So, finally you have nothing to suggest to God ? And according to you God's Godhood is in danger ? :)
 

chinu

chinu
That is the reason I posted what I did. I honestly don't know the answer to this question. Therefore if a God exists, I have to leave it in their hands.
For how long will you leave that in God's hands ? How much time will you give to God ?
 
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