Atheists what should God do to make you believe in ?

[Subduction Zone]

What you said is true if you want to use prophecies as the only evidence for God, but I never said it was all the evidence I have, I said it is part of the evidence. I believe that the evidence for God is Baha'u'llah and the evidence for Baha'u'llah is listed on this post I wrote some time ago when I was asked for evidence:

Questions for knowledgeable Bahai / followers of Baha'u'llah

Even as part of the evidence it fails. I have seen the prophecies and they are overly vague and though there are standard events that were used to be their "fulfillment" there are easily others that would count as well. I would simply not count them as part of the evidence for your beliefs.

 

[Trailblazer]

Even as part of the evidence it fails. I have seen the prophecies and they are overly vague and though there are standard events that were used to be their "fulfillment" there are easily others that would count as well. I would simply not count them as part of the evidence for your beliefs.

Baha'u'llah never told us to count the prophecies as evidence. Below is what Baha’u’llah wrote about evidence that establishes the truth of His claims. More specifically, Baha’u’llah enjoined us to look at His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with 106 the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

Since I already believe because of all the evidence cited above I don't need prophecies as evidence. I just like the prophecies because they definitely prove that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and Christians should realize that so they will stop waiting for the same Jesus to return.

 

[ChristineM]

I have what is proof to me but it would not be proof to you.

You have belief then. Ok

 

[ChristineM]

Excellent.

I agree.

Here is an example from the NIV Daniel 11:

The God of gods:

“The king will do as he pleases. He will exalt and magnify himself above every god and will say unheard-of things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been determined must take place. He will show no regard for the gods of his ancestors or for the one desired by women, nor will he regard any god, but will exalt himself above them all. Instead of them, he will honor a god of fortresses; a god unknown to his ancestors he will honor with gold and silver, with precious stones and costly gifts.
Daniel 11:36 Then the king will do as he pleases and will exalt and magnify himself above every god, and he will speak monstrous things against the God of gods. He will be successful until the time of wrath is completed, for what has been decreed must be accomplished.
​

Peaceful Sabbath.

The word god is a derivative of the 6th century ad proto Germanic word gudan. It became god much later in old saxon and dutch. So despite what the bible says, god is not the name of the main protagonists.

 

[Dave Watchman]

So despite what the bible says, god is not the name of the main protagonists.

What about what Wiki says?

Do they capitalize the name of God?

In practice

To avoid coming under guilt by accidentally misusing God's name, Jewish scholars do not write or pronounce the proper name in most circumstances, but use substitutes such as "Adonai (the Lord)," or "HaShem (the Name)."[16] In English translations of the Bible, the name Adonai is often translated "Lord," while the proper name Yahweh represented by the tetragrammaton is often indicated by the use of capital and small capital letters, Lᴏʀᴅ.[17]

Rabbi Joseph Telushkin wrote that the commandment is much more than a prohibition against casual interjections using God's name. He pointed out that the more literal translation of Lo tissa is "you shall not carry" rather than "you shall not take", and that understanding this helps one understand why the commandment ranks with such as "You shall not murder" and "You shall not commit adultery".[4]

One of the first commandments listed by Maimonides in the Mishneh Torah is the responsibility to sanctify God's name.[18] Maimonides thought the commandment should be taken as generally as possible, and therefore he considered it forbidden to mention God's name unnecessarily at any time. Jewish scholars referred to this as "motzi shem shamayim lavatalah", "uttering the Name of Heaven uselessly."[19] To avoid guilt associated with accidentally breaking the commandment, Jewish scholars applied the prohibition to all seven biblical titles of God in addition to the proper name, and established the safeguard of circumlocution when referring to the Name of God.[20] In writing names of God, a common practice includes substituting letters or syllables so that the written word is not exactly the name, or writing the name in an abbreviated manner.

Orthodox Jews will not even pronounce a name of God unless it is said in prayer or religious study. The Sacred Name (Tetragrammaton), is never pronounced by these Jews but always read as "Adonai (the Lord)," "HaShem (the Name)," or sometimes "AdoShem".[21]

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - Wikipedia

May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[ChristineM]

What about what Wiki says?

Do they capitalize the name of God?

In practice

To avoid coming under guilt by accidentally misusing God's name, Jewish scholars do not write or pronounce the proper name in most circumstances, but use substitutes such as "Adonai (the Lord)," or "HaShem (the Name)."[16] In English translations of the Bible, the name Adonai is often translated "Lord," while the proper name Yahweh represented by the tetragrammaton is often indicated by the use of capital and small capital letters, Lᴏʀᴅ.[17]

Rabbi Joseph Telushkin wrote that the commandment is much more than a prohibition against casual interjections using God's name. He pointed out that the more literal translation of Lo tissa is "you shall not carry" rather than "you shall not take", and that understanding this helps one understand why the commandment ranks with such as "You shall not murder" and "You shall not commit adultery".[4]

One of the first commandments listed by Maimonides in the Mishneh Torah is the responsibility to sanctify God's name.[18] Maimonides thought the commandment should be taken as generally as possible, and therefore he considered it forbidden to mention God's name unnecessarily at any time. Jewish scholars referred to this as "motzi shem shamayim lavatalah", "uttering the Name of Heaven uselessly."[19] To avoid guilt associated with accidentally breaking the commandment, Jewish scholars applied the prohibition to all seven biblical titles of God in addition to the proper name, and established the safeguard of circumlocution when referring to the Name of God.[20] In writing names of God, a common practice includes substituting letters or syllables so that the written word is not exactly the name, or writing the name in an abbreviated manner.

Orthodox Jews will not even pronounce a name of God unless it is said in prayer or religious study. The Sacred Name (Tetragrammaton), is never pronounced by these Jews but always read as "Adonai (the Lord)," "HaShem (the Name)," or sometimes "AdoShem".[21]

Thou shalt not take the name of the Lord thy God in vain - Wikipedia

May His great Name be blessed forever and ever.

Peaceful Sabbath.

I will stick with the etymology of the word

 

[Subduction Zone]

Baha'u'llah never told us to count the prophecies as evidence. Below is what Baha’u’llah wrote about evidence that establishes the truth of His claims. More specifically, Baha’u’llah enjoined us to look at His own Self (His character), His Revelation (His works, which can be seen in Baha'i history), and His words (His Writings).

“Say: The first and foremost testimony establishing His truth is His own Self. Next to this testimony is His Revelation. For whoso faileth to recognize either the one or the other He hath established the words He hath revealed as proof of His reality and truth. This is, verily, an evidence of His tender mercy unto men. He hath endowed every soul with 106 the capacity to recognize the signs of God. How could He, otherwise, have fulfilled His testimony unto men, if ye be of them that ponder His Cause in their hearts. He will never deal unjustly with any one, neither will He task a soul beyond its power. He, verily, is the Compassionate, the All-Merciful.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 105-106

Since I already believe because of all the evidence cited above I don't need prophecies as evidence. I just like the prophecies because they definitely prove that Baha'u'llah was the return of Christ and Christians should realize that so they will stop waiting for the same Jesus to return.

Then why did you even mention the prophecies. As for his own words, I do not find them particularly convincing either.

 

[Dave Watchman]

I will stick with the etymology of the word

`
I'll stick with the context of the word, as their meanings can change throughout history.

TIME IN BIBLE TIMES
By CHARLES FRANCIS POTTER*

The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, mean- ing Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly suc- cession of the processes of nature.

"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use.

Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."

Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length.

There were astronomers then, to be sure, who had carefully worked out the exact length of the day from their observation of the stars and the equinoxes, and had divided the day into 24 equal parts or hours, like the ones we use today. These they measured by a clever mechanical device which they called the clepsydra, literally the water-stealer, a primitive forerunner of the clock.

But the common people of New Testament times, in their homes and in business, knew nothing of the day of 24 equal hours. To them the day was the period between sunrise and sunset, and that was divided into 12 equal parts called hours. Of course, the hours were therefore much longer in summer than in winter. In mid- winter their hour was equal to only three-fourths of one of our hours and in midsummer was as long as our hour and a quarter. But in their leisurely method of living, they did not worry about such small matters.

© The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada • Provided by the NASA Astrophysics Data System1941JRASC..35..163P166 Charles Francis Potter​

Practically, too, Jesus' contemporaries did not even bother very much with separate hours. They used mostly the third, sixth and ninth hours, meaning mid-forenoon, noon and mid-afternoon. As a matter of fact, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth and 12th hours are never mentioned in the New Testament at all. The 11th hour is referred to twice, but in the same story; and the seventh and tenth hours are mentioned but once each. And in half the places where any hour is mentioned, it is prefaced by the word "about." "About the ninth hour" is a common phrase, and meant evidently "along some time in the afternoon."

The night was divided into watches. In Old Testament times there were three—the evening watch, the middle watch and the morning watch. That usage carried over into the New Testament, but the Roman four-watch night was also coming into use. There is an interesting example in Mark 13: 35, where all four watches are named, "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning."

1941JRASC..35..163P Page 163

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[osgart]

What makes you think that God is doing all this ?

Because God doesn't exist.

 

[Trailblazer]

Then why did you even mention the prophecies.

Because that is the only thing that is meaningful to Christians.... Everything has to be verified by the Bible.

As for his own words, I do not find them particularly convincing either.

Neither did I when I first became a Baha'i although I did many decades later. When I first investigated the Faith I read mostly the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha and other books about the Baha'i Faith. I did not join the religion because I believed in God because I did not care much about God or really believe in God back in those days. Now I am sure that God exists and it has great significance to me. My life has changed a lot in 50 years, I am not the same person.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Because God doesn't exist.

How do you know that?

 

[ChristineM]

`
I'll stick with the context of the word, as their meanings can change throughout history.

TIME IN BIBLE TIMES
By CHARLES FRANCIS POTTER*

The word "hour" comes from the Greek word "hora." The "Horae" were the three mythological goddesses of the seasons— spring, summer and winter. This was before autumn was recognized as a season. Their names were Eunomia, Dike and Eirene, mean- ing Good Order, Justice and Peace, guardians of the orderly suc- cession of the processes of nature.

"Hora" therefore meant "season" in a very general sense, almost synonymous with "a time." It was simply a measurable lapse of time with a beginning and an end, but with no uniform length of duration. That ancient Greek meaning of the word persisted into New Testament times even after "hora" came to be used also to mean a division of the day. Consequently, when the translators came across the word "hora," they found it very difficult to deter- mine what English word to use.

Several times they translated "hora" as "day" ; several other times they rendered it "season," and they were correct in so doing. But in some verses where "hora" should have been translated "moment" or "instant," they rendered it "hour."

Even in the many places in the New Testament where the word "hora" is used to indicate a period of time somewhat corresponding to our modern hour, it should be understood by the Bible reader that the New Testament hour varied greatly in length.

There were astronomers then, to be sure, who had carefully worked out the exact length of the day from their observation of the stars and the equinoxes, and had divided the day into 24 equal parts or hours, like the ones we use today. These they measured by a clever mechanical device which they called the clepsydra, literally the water-stealer, a primitive forerunner of the clock.

But the common people of New Testament times, in their homes and in business, knew nothing of the day of 24 equal hours. To them the day was the period between sunrise and sunset, and that was divided into 12 equal parts called hours. Of course, the hours were therefore much longer in summer than in winter. In mid- winter their hour was equal to only three-fourths of one of our hours and in midsummer was as long as our hour and a quarter. But in their leisurely method of living, they did not worry about such small matters.

© The Royal Astronomical Society of Canada • Provided by the NASA Astrophysics Data System1941JRASC..35..163P166 Charles Francis Potter​

Practically, too, Jesus' contemporaries did not even bother very much with separate hours. They used mostly the third, sixth and ninth hours, meaning mid-forenoon, noon and mid-afternoon. As a matter of fact, the first, second, fourth, fifth, eighth and 12th hours are never mentioned in the New Testament at all. The 11th hour is referred to twice, but in the same story; and the seventh and tenth hours are mentioned but once each. And in half the places where any hour is mentioned, it is prefaced by the word "about." "About the ninth hour" is a common phrase, and meant evidently "along some time in the afternoon."

The night was divided into watches. In Old Testament times there were three—the evening watch, the middle watch and the morning watch. That usage carried over into the New Testament, but the Roman four-watch night was also coming into use. There is an interesting example in Mark 13: 35, where all four watches are named, "Watch ye therefore: for ye know not when the master of the house cometh, at even, or at midnight, or at the cockcrowing, or in the morning."

1941JRASC..35..163P Page 163

Peaceful Sabbath.

What good is context of 2-3-4 thousand years ago of the word has only existed 1000 or so years?

 

[Trailblazer]

Because God doesn't exist.

Hi osgart! I thought you had fallen off the face of the earth, glad to see you are still here.
God does exist, but that is another subject.

 

[Dave Watchman]

What good is context of 2-3-4 thousand years ago of the word has only existed 1000 or so years?

Because.

Our word hour comes from the word hora.

2000 years ago it could mean a time, a season, or any designated period with a starting point and an ending point in time.

We need the context to decern it.

Like Winston Churchill said, this is their finest hour.

It's not 60 minutes.

"Because you have kept my word about patient endurance,
I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.​

The "hour" of trial is probably not a literal 60 minutes.

Context is king.

The King of kings.

The God of gods, is the Ruler of rulers.

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[ChristineM]

Because.

Our word hour comes from the word hora.

2000 years ago it could mean a time, a season, or any designated period with a starting point and an ending point in time.

We need the context to decern it.

Like Winston Churchill said, this is their finest hour.

It's not 60 minutes.

"Because you have kept my word about patient endurance,
I will keep you from the hour of trial that is coming on the whole world, to try those who dwell on the earth.​

The "hour" of trial is probably not a literal 60 minutes.

Context is king.

The King of kings.

The God of gods, is the Ruler of rulers.

Peaceful Sabbath.

So i guess you have not studied the etymology. Ok, fair enough

 

[blü 2]

The joke is that you can't see as see my errors. They are not my errors, because they are nothing but thoughts in your mind.

Be of good cheer. One day you'll twig to what I've been telling you.

 

[blü 2]

The joke is that you can't see as see my errors. They are not my errors, because they are nothing but thoughts in your mind.

Be of good cheer. One day you'll twig to what I've been telling you.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Atheists what should God do to make you believe in ?

As a former devout atheist what influenced me initially was when I came across intelligent people who were religious. By that I mean they weren’t superstitious, were kind and all that, but highly intelligent and to me intelligence was always missing from religious people as they were either eating Christ’s body and drinking His blood (Eucharist) or worshipping a tree, statue or a priest.

I could never accept superstition so I rejected all religion as it was all to me just superstitious nonsense.

So I began asking tough questions and expected the usual superstitious nonsense. But these people replied with answers based upon sound reasoning , logic and rational. So I was taken aback. Then I began reading their literature and it was very rational and made complete sense.

At that point I began to investigate alone, what it was all about, and there are no words to describe what I found. Hidden in all that mystery I found truth not only in one religion but in all also the remedy for all our present day ills which had been dropped in our midst but ignored so far.

To have been honoured with such a discovery remains perplexing as I do not consider myself as having willingly set out to find anything and resisted all the way. Yet, when all was said and done, it stood out as bright as the sun to me which I could not ignore.

So my days as an atheist ended as I had discovered what has alluded most of humanity as they still struggle on their journey.

 

[osgart]

Hi osgart! I thought you had fallen off the face of the earth, glad to see you are still here.
God does exist, but that is another subject.

Lots of changes in my life. Always good to hear from you Trailblazer!

 

[osgart]

How do you know that?

Because none of the definitions of God fall into the realm of people's experience. Especially mine.