Atheists vow to fight monument rejection in Levy County, Fla.

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Wow, so all this talk about people becoming more irreligious and being Atheist is all wrong then?

No, it's not. "Irreligious" is not the same thing as "atheist". The proportion of people with no religious affiliation is growing rapidly, but only some of these people are atheists.

If there are 78% Christians in the USA, it already should be a total 'paradise on earth' over there already, no?

What are you talking about?

 

[freethinker44]

So, they (the Atheists) are going about this all wrong...they need to find those who are opposed to these kinds of monuments in general for discriminatory purposes, and have all references to the Bible, or to Jesus or anything like that, removed from public view.

That will be the best outcome here.

They have claimed it's discriminitory, the law doesn't say you can't display religiuos imagery, it says government can't respect a specific religion. Freedom OF religion, not freedom from religion. So as long as they don't arbitrarily tell other religious groups they cannot display there, they're good. That's why they are fighting religious displays by trying to put up their own displays, basically just calling the local governments bluff that it's legal because any group can display their monument their.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Source please.

Largest Religious Groups in the USA

Church Statistics and Religious Affiliations - U.S. Religious Landscape Study - Pew Forum on Religion & Public Life

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

No, it's not. "Irreligious" is not the same thing as "atheist". The proportion of people with no religious affiliation is growing rapidly, but only some of these people are atheists.



What are you talking about?

What I am talking about, are those Christians who say 'the world is going to pot because there are so many people out there who are not Christian' when statistics say the exact opposite.

 

[Ouroboros]

That is discriminatory though, but I bet there are many, many more Atheists than Christians in the USA if 'world trends' are anything to go by, so they are not a 'minority group' and they are not even religious!

Atheists are a minority in America. 90% religious, where 70% are Christians. Only 10% or so are non-religious. America is one of the more religious industrial nations.

And atheism is considered a religion by some (or many) Christians, but many (or most) atheists do not.

Or is it a case of 'We don't allow you to hold office if you are not a Christian?' not necessarily if 'you are Atheist?'

There are some states that actually have laws against atheists holding office.

North Carolina's Constitution, Article VI, Section 8:

Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

So, if that is the case, where does that leave all the Theists who are not Christian?

They're okay.

Can one who believes in the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' hold office then because they are Theist?

Maybe, maybe not.

So, please answer me this...if it's only Christians who are allowed to hold office in those 10 states, or any kind of Theist who is allowed to hold office in those 10 states.

Any theist can hold office. Atheists technically can't in these states.

This webpage has a list of the other states: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/friend...ates-ban-atheists-from-holding-public-office/

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Can an Agnostic be a parliamentarian in those 10 states?

What happens if...a candidate is elected to office going 'I worship the flying spaghetti monster' or 'ceiling cat'...then after being in office, saying 'haha! I fooled you all, I am really an Atheist'...

Who is to know what a person believes in? How can that ever be tested...honestly?

Don't know.

So, they (the Atheists) are going about this all wrong...they need to find those who are opposed to these kinds of monuments in general for discriminatory purposes, and have all references to the Bible, or to Jesus or anything like that, removed from public view.

Have been trying, since the 1960's, at least. The worldview of most Americans is vastly different from that in Australia. You don't understand how it could possibly be that way here, but for us, it's a common, everyday part of life. As far as schools are concerned, see this: Creationism in public schools, mapped. Where tax money supports alternatives to evolution. (Religious Right Watch).

EDIT: also here: http://news.yahoo.com/public-school-crams-christianity-114500832--politics.html

 

[Ouroboros]

Wow, so all this talk about people becoming more irreligious and being Atheist is all wrong then?

If there are 78% Christians in the USA, it already should be a total 'paradise on earth' over there already, no?

It's not.

America has one of the higher crime rates in the world.

It also has the most people incarcerated. 25% of the world's prisoners are located in America.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Any theist can hold office. Atheists technically can't in these states.

Again: this isn't true.

Torcaso v. Watkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

The group you're describing is the ACLU, and they're fighting against these sorts of religious monuments and displays as well.

For instance, they helped then-17-year-old Jessica Ahlquist launch a court challenge to remove a Christian prayer from her high school after her requests to the school administration were refused. For her trouble, she got described as an "evil little thing" by a state representative and had enough credible death threats that she had a police escort for a while.

Jessica Ahlquist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

This is the sort of person you expect to behave reasonably and fairly: people who would threaten the life of a teenage girl for speaking out according to her principles.

If that representative went on public record as saying such a thing, could he not be then sued for defamation of character?

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Atheists are a minority in America. 90% religious, where 70% are Christians. Only 10% or so are non-religious. America is one of the more religious industrial nations.

And atheism is considered a religion by some (or many) Christians, but many (or most) atheists do not.


There are some states that actually have laws against atheists holding office.

North Carolina's Constitution, Article VI, Section 8:



They're okay.


Maybe, maybe not.


Any theist can hold office. Atheists technically can't in these states.

This webpage has a list of the other states: Which States Ban Atheists from Holding Public Office?

Oh yeah, the last time I said 'Atheism is a religion' on here, I was shot down in flames by everybody.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

They have claimed it's discriminitory, the law doesn't say you can't display religiuos imagery, it says government can't respect a specific religion. Freedom OF religion, not freedom from religion. So as long as they don't arbitrarily tell other religious groups they cannot display there, they're good. That's why they are fighting religious displays by trying to put up their own displays, basically just calling the local governments bluff that it's legal because any group can display their monument their.

So, why is it then, you have said this:

because if you are Hindu like it says under your avatar, you're not part of their plan, whatever that may be.

Even if I was a Theistic Hindu (which I am not), I would still be Theist, not Atheist, so I could still get a seat in parliament and be 'part of their plan'. This is what I do not understand.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

If that representative went on public record as saying such a thing, could he not be then sued for defamation of character?

Lol, I wish. Just look up what politicians and Christian leaders had to say about Sandra Fluke.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

If that representative went on public record as saying such a thing, could he not be then sued for defamation of character?

I don't know if a lawsuit like that would be successful. He wasn't sued; that's all I know.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Sec. 8. Disqualifications for office.
The following persons shall be disqualified for office:
First, any person who shall deny the being of Almighty God.

This is straight out of the 'Dark Ages' though.

I don't have any religious perspective on this whatsoever. I am Agnostic, who says that an 'Almighty God may exist...but may not', so where does that leave me?

However, for that to occur, the creator of these laws, must define what an 'Almighty God' is and be able to prove the existence of such, before making it a requirement for office that a person should believe in it.

Then again, my memory reminded me about a movie that I once saw which was based on a true story:

The Man Who Sued God - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

So, I guess I can just put this all down to yet another case of human stupidity, and if only 2% of Americans are Atheist, if Atheism is a religion, then yeah, I can see the point and why Atheists believe they are being discriminated against.

Still, I would love to hear the non-religious reason as to why one incomplete monument was allowed to stand, while another was not.

I'd love to hear the reason given....and if it turns out 'because the Ten Commandments Statue is a Christian statue and the Bench monument is an Atheist statue, and the laws of this State only apply to Atheists and not Christians', then the Atheists can mount legal challenge based on discrimination.

If not, they haven't got a leg to stand on.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Lol, I wish. Just look up what politicians and Christian leaders had to say about Sandra Fluke.

I guess that's one advantage of living in Australia. Even though our politicians are elected according to wealth, they still have to answer to ICAC (the Independent Commission Against Corruption) and all of this would be seen as being corrupt and the parliamentarian would be sued.

 

[Ouroboros]

Again: this isn't true.

Torcaso v. Watkins - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ah. Didn't know it had been challenged in supreme court.

 

[Ouroboros]

Oh yeah, the last time I said 'Atheism is a religion' on here, I was shot down in flames by everybody.

I think that it would be cool if it was declared as a religion. That way, American Atheists could register as a church and get tax reductions.

 

[freethinker44]

Even if I was a Theistic Hindu (which I am not), I would still be Theist, not Atheist, so I could still get a seat in parliament and be 'part of their plan'. This is what I do not understand.

Because they call this a "Christian nation", not a theist nation. They want to dissolve the separation of church and state and instill their religion as law and you're not Christian so they don't care about you're rights any more than they do mine.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Because they call this a "Christian nation", not a theist nation. They want to dissolve the separation of church and state and instill their religion as law and you're not Christian so they don't care about you're rights any more than they do mine.

And they don't even care about all Christians. I'm not sure if that sort of "Christian nation" would have much room for Catholics or Mormons, for instance.

 

[NobodyYouKnow]

Because they call this a "Christian nation", not a theist nation. They want to dissolve the separation of church and state and instill their religion as law and you're not Christian so they don't care about you're rights any more than they do mine.

However, that totally discredits the whole notion that Atheists are being discriminated against, when 'anybody who is not a Christian' is being discriminated against. Do you see my argument?