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Atheists vow to fight monument rejection in Levy County, Fla.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by dyanaprajna2011, Feb 8, 2014.

  1. dyanaprajna2011

    dyanaprajna2011 Dharmapala

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    Atheists vow to fight monument rejection in Levy County, Fla. | Religion News Service

    And the 'persecution' against atheists continues. Atheists face more discrimination in this country probably more so than any religious group. Christians are allowed public displays of nativity scenes, the ten commandments, posters, billboards, and anything else selling Christianity, yet atheists get railroaded every time they try to do the same. And Christians want to cry persecution against them? Dark ages, here we come!
     
    Poeticus likes this.
  2. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Ignorant Atheist Capitalist Engineer Libertarian

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    The fight over it is so much more interesting than the monument itself.
     
    StarryNightshade likes this.
  3. StarryNightshade

    StarryNightshade Lovable Curmudgeon & Happy Cynic

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    Vadakalai Sri Vaishnav
    Not sure if your comment is facetious or sincere?

    Either way, I think the best way to settle this is dialogue and good old diplomacy. However, since people like to think in "black-or-white-terms", and no one in these situations really like to act like functioning adults, that's probably not going to happen.

    Besides, I'm rather bored with the monument debate. There are more important things to focus our time and energy on.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  4. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    I'm not sure it's reasonable to expect the sort of people who put up Ten Commandments monuments on public property to be interested in dialogue or diplomacy.

    The monument issue has taken an interesting turn ever since the courts in the US ruled that religious monuments that would normally be considered unconstitutional can be grandfathered into legality in the name of "community history" if they have been in place undisputed for a long time. Because of this, many atheists have realized that they don't object to these monuments loudly and early, then they could lose the ability to get rid of them later.
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
    Poeticus likes this.
  5. psychoslice

    psychoslice Well-Known Member Premium Member

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    my own religion
    Power to the atheist.:atheist:
     
  6. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    *quote from story:

    Since when was Atheism considered a 'religious minority group'? :areyoucra

    However, it has reached that point in society, where people will apportion blame to anything and everything else, other than the real issue!

    "you are only arresting me because I am black" (after the person breaks the law).

    "you are only yelling at me because I am a woman" (after she tells a guy off).

    "you are only declining our monument because we are Atheist" (after the reason is because of incorrect/missing text or the monument not being fit for the place)..

    People always use their 'minority status' to try and get their own political way or as a cheap publicity stunt, when even blind freddy can see this is not the case...then, they cry 'discrimination' and take it to court.

    No wonder there is such intolerance towards these minority groups now! - they created this whole situation for themselves and all I can say, is:

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Feb 8, 2014
  7. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    Religion:
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    Neither the atheist monument nor the existing Ten Commandments monument meet the strict requirements of the County's policy:

    https://www.google.ca/url?sa=t&rct=...=yzCeZKP3CJpceVQshrjclA&bvm=bv.60983673,d.b2I

    Neither the Ten Commandments themselves nor the slogan underneath them ("love God and keep his commandments") are "the entire text" of a document.

    The County government is engaging in a double standard. And while a monument itself isn't that big a deal, it can be a litmus test for more serious matters: if they learn that they can't engage in a small amount of religious favouritism, then maybe this will teach them not to engage in more serious forms of favouritism or discrimination.
     
    dyanaprajna2011 likes this.
  8. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    In that case, religion should have nothing to do with it.

    'Dear Judge; Monument X has missing text and was allowed to be erected, however, Monument Y, is not - why is this so?'

    People should just forget all the heated religious emotion, and fight the law based on these 'double standards'.

    Let's see them give a logical reason as to why what applies in one case, should not apply in another under the law.

    This is the only reason to fight such a thing and not turn it into an Atheist vs Xtian war, or saying that Atheists are being 'persecuted against'...that's a load of rubbish! I have never heard such bull.

    If people want to go that far, everybody is being 'persecuted against' for just being human, because we all have something that makes us unique from our fellow man....something we can use in court to get our own way...

    This society suffers from a persecution complex and it's bad...really bad!
     
  9. dyanaprajna2011

    dyanaprajna2011 Dharmapala

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    There are what, 10? states, that don't allow a person to hold office if they're atheist, Christians don't have to worry about that. Atheists monuments, billboards, and bus signs are shot down each and every time; Christian one's aren't. Like it or not, atheists face far more discrimination in the states than Christians could ever dream of. I wish it wasn't that way either, but that's the reality.
     
  10. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    That is discriminatory though, but I bet there are many, many more Atheists than Christians in the USA if 'world trends' are anything to go by, so they are not a 'minority group' and they are not even religious!

    One question (not knowing anything about American politics whatsoever), you said that 10 states don't allow a person to hold office if they're atheist. What if they are a Muslim? a Hindu? can they hold office then?

    What if they believe in an unaligned deity and are theistic, but not Christian, can they hold office then?

    Or is it a case of 'We don't allow you to hold office if you are not a Christian?' not necessarily if 'you are Atheist?'

    So, if that is the case, where does that leave all the Theists who are not Christian?

    Can one who believes in the 'Flying Spaghetti Monster' hold office then because they are Theist?

    So, please answer me this...if it's only Christians who are allowed to hold office in those 10 states, or any kind of Theist who is allowed to hold office in those 10 states.
     
  11. freethinker44

    freethinker44 Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly the point! Religion isn't supposed to have anything to do with it. They've challenged religious groups putting their displays up on government property, the governments reaction is "it's not unconstitutional because we're not respecting a particular religion, anyone can put up a monument". So they do exactly that, apply to put up their own monument, but hey look at that it got rejected for some BS reason.

    If you honestly believe it isn't a government entity preferring one religious group over another, you need to remove yourself from the rock you are living under and open up your eyes because if you are Hindu like it says under your avatar, you're not part of their plan, whatever that may be.
     
  12. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    You can't remove religion from this issue. It started with a Ten Commandments monument on the steps of a courthouse. It was always about religion.

    It's not so much a matter of it being an atheist vs. Christian war as it is a fight between one subset of Christians (the ones who want to impose their religion on others) against non-Christians generally plus Christians who value separation of church and state.

    It's not persecution, but it is discriminatory conduct by government, which I think is something that should be considered a problem.
     
  13. dyanaprajna2011

    dyanaprajna2011 Dharmapala

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    Approximately 76% of the American population are professing Christian. Non religious is around 4%, if I remember correctly. And religious or not, it's still discrimination.

    Yes, as long as they profess faith in some kind of god.

    Which makes it all the more insulting against atheists. Atheists are treated as second class citizens here, and no one seems to notice or care, except the atheists.
     
  14. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    That's not really true. It would be more accurate to say that atheists can hold office everywhere, but there are 10 states where these state laws weren't explicitly repealed once their effect was nullified by the 14th Amendment. Even if those laws are still on the books, they carry no legal weight.

    That's true.
     
  15. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    Source please.
     
  16. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    Can an Agnostic be a parliamentarian in those 10 states?

    What happens if...a candidate is elected to office going 'I worship the flying spaghetti monster' or 'ceiling cat'...then after being in office, saying 'haha! I fooled you all, I am really an Atheist'...

    Who is to know what a person believes in? How can that ever be tested...honestly?
     
  17. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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  18. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    I live in Australia, so that 'rock' I would be living under, would be 'Ayer's Rock' :p

    All our politicians are instated on personal wealth, not religious conviction.

    Just as an atheist cannot hold any positions of power in your country, a poor person cannot hold any positions of power in ours, so can we then use poverty as an excuse?

    One just has to look at Senator Clive Palmer who is a multi billionaire and who bought his seat on the Senate without even a majority vote putting him there.

    In our country, it's all about the money and who it can buy/pay off.

    I bet, that a similar thing would apply...if a multi billionaire atheist went to run for office in those states, going 'I worship money as my deity...'

    However and that being said, there's an easy way to get rid of that 'Ten Commandment Statue' if they really want to...

    Just find another minority religious group who hates Christians (I bet there are many out there), to petition the council and go 'We find that monument to be highly offensive to our own religious/sacred beliefs and would like to see it removed, or we'll see you in court'. It will be taken down faster than lightning.

    There's a reason why crosses and such are not allowed to be publically displayed in schools and such...other religious groups who are not Christian get emotionally and psychologically traumatised by it...they have nightmares about it...

    So, they (the Atheists) are going about this all wrong...they need to find those who are opposed to these kinds of monuments in general for discriminatory purposes, and have all references to the Bible, or to Jesus or anything like that, removed from public view.

    That will be the best outcome here.
     
  19. NobodyYouKnow

    NobodyYouKnow Misanthropist

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    Wow, so all this talk about people becoming more irreligious and being Atheist is all wrong then?

    If there are 78% Christians in the USA, it already should be a total 'paradise on earth' over there already, no?
     
  20. 9-10ths_Penguin

    9-10ths_Penguin 1/10 Superstylin' Staff Member Premium Member

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    The group you're describing is the ACLU, and they're fighting against these sorts of religious monuments and displays as well.

    For instance, they helped then-17-year-old Jessica Ahlquist launch a court challenge to remove a Christian prayer from her high school after her requests to the school administration were refused. For her trouble, she got described as an "evil little thing" by a state representative and had enough credible death threats that she had a police escort for a while.

    Jessica Ahlquist - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    This is the sort of person you expect to behave reasonably and fairly: people who would threaten the life of a teenage girl for speaking out according to her principles.
     
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