Atheists: Please sell me on atheism

[Sand Dancer]

After trying to figure exactly which religion I should adhere to, I finally realized that it can't be proven, so I have decided to be agnostic. It seems so wishy-washy. Give me some reasons to consider atheism.

 

[LuisDantas]

Reasons? I don't think it is really worth actively pursuing atheism. Either you feel like disbelieving in the existence of deities, or you do not. It is not supposed to be a big deal either way.

If you feel like being religious, I don't think you should let either atheism or agnosticism be an obstacle. It would be a waste to do so.

Edited to add: for that matter, I'm not sure you should let go of theism just because it can't be proven. It seems to me that the decisive factor should be what effects the belief has on you. Theism can be borderline miraculous for some people.

 

[allfoak]

Agnostic is wishy-washy.

If we could just realize that there is something separate from ourselves that we work with to create our lives on a moment by moment basis, our whole life would change.
And never once would i ever have to mention god.
But i probably would, due to lack of any other way to speak of this force.

 

[Quintessence]

I'm confused. Given a huge chunk of religions is not about proof, why is this a central issue? What about something being entertaining, useful, fun, aesthetically pleasing, meaningful, emotionally riveting, philosophical, intriguing, intellectually challenging, relationship building, communal, ritualistic, institutional, educational, traditional, connecting, and on and on?

 

[allfoak]

I'm confused. Given a huge chunk of religions is not about proof, why is this a central issue? What about something being entertaining, useful, fun, aesthetically pleasing, meaningful, emotionally riveting, philosophical, intriguing, intellectually challenging, relationship building, communal, ritualistic, institutional, educational, traditional, connecting, and on and on?

Is there an App for that?

 

[viole]

After trying to figure exactly which religion I should adhere to, I finally realized that it can't be proven, so I have decided to be agnostic. It seems so wishy-washy. Give me some reasons to consider atheism.

Many things cannot be proven. I cannot prove that the speed of light in vacuum is constant, for instance. I can only provide evidence that it is the case that the speed of light in vacuum is constant. But no proof. I did not check the speed of light in every corner of the Universe now and in the past, after all.

Does that justify agnosticism about the speed of light, because I cannot provide exhaustive and complete proof about its speed everywhere and anytime?

Nope. I prefer to rid wishy washiness and claim knowledge that the speed of light is indeed constant everywhere, at the "risk" of being wrong. As it can always be the case with not analytic propositions.

You could do the same. Since there is no evidence of gods (vs. no evidence of speeds different than c) then you can claim knowledge that god does not exist (vs. the speed of light is always c).

Ciao

- viole

 

[Sand Dancer]

Reasons? I don't think it is really worth actively pursuing atheism. Either you feel like disbelieving in the existence of deities, or you do not. It is not supposed to be a big deal either way.

If you feel like being religious, I don't think you should let either atheism or agnosticism be an obstacle. It would be a waste to do so.

Edited to add: for that matter, I'm not sure you should let go of theism just because it can't be proven. It seems to me that the decisive factor should be what effects the belief has on you. Theism can be borderline miraculous for some people.

I am just so fed up with religious texts full of errors and people who hate in the name of religion. I like and hate something about all of them. I just don't think there is any one perfect faith. I am frustrated trying to find the one I adhere to most.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Agnostic is wishy-washy.

If we could just realize that there is something separate from ourselves that we work with to create our lives on a moment by moment basis, our whole life would change.
And never once would i ever have to mention god.
But i probably would, due to lack of any other way to speak of this force.

That is kind of what I think. There is something out there I think, but I don't know for sure and I don't know the attributes and function.

 

[allfoak]

I am just so fed up with religious texts full of errors and people who hate in the name of religion. I like and hate something about all of them. I just don't think there is any one perfect faith. I am frustrated trying to find the one I adhere to most.

It is YOU!
YOU are the perfect faith.
You have all that you need.
You will realize immediately that no worship is necessary.

 

[YmirGF]

Atheism = You are good enough as you are. You have nothing to prove.

 

[Sand Dancer]

Atheism = You are good enough as you are. You have nothing to prove.

That is a cool take on it. Very positive.

 

[Quintessence]

I am just so fed up with religious texts full of errors and people who hate in the name of religion.

I would recommend against letting other people ruin things for you. Because other people will always find a way to ruin things for you. Forget about what other people are doing and do what you want to do, perhaps?

I just don't think there is any one perfect faith. I am frustrated trying to find the one I adhere to most.

When we get right down to it, all religions have exactly one adherent. No two people's expression of religiosity is the same, even if they hail from the same tradition. The better way to approach it is like how you approach your choice of entertainment: I wager there are certain genres you prefer over others. Pick a genre (aka, a general category of religion). Then, within that genre, explore and allow yourself to be inspired by things on their own merits, rather than listening so much to what other fans of the genre are telling you. Yeah, other fans can be useful, but not every science fiction fan is going to love everything in that genre. It's the same with a religious demographic. People pick their favorites, they find their niche. Those favorites and niches can change over time, and probably should, as you change as a person. Thinking of finding a religion as a destination instead of a journey or a lived way of life... maybe that is part of the issue? I don't know... you would know better than I. At any rate, do remember that you build your own religion - that religion of one is uniquely yours, even if you share a common fandom with others.

It's worth noting that theism and atheism in of themselves are not genres - they are not religions. They have very little to offer - to the point that I would just about say they have nothing to offer in of themselves. Theology, on the other hand, does have something to offer, whereas the lack of any theology is... well... nothing offers nothing. But if theology isn't your thing, might as well cast it by the wayside and not waste your time with it. There are other genres. Work with philosophy instead, maybe social sciences. Whatever is your thing.

 

[LuisDantas]

I am just so fed up with religious texts full of errors and people who hate in the name of religion. I like and hate something about all of them. I just don't think there is any one perfect faith. I am frustrated trying to find the one I adhere to most.

If I may, have you read the Tao Te Ching? You could do worse.

 

[Quintessence]

Atheism = You are good enough as you are. You have nothing to prove.

I'm not seeing this connection between questions of self-worth and one's status as a theist or atheist. Could you explain this one to me?

 

[Sand Dancer]

I would recommend against letting other people ruin things for you. Because other people will always find a way to ruin things for you. Forget about what other people are doing and do what you want to do, perhaps?



When we get right down to it, all religions have exactly one adherent. No two people's expression of religiosity is the same, even if they hail from the same tradition. The better way to approach it is like how you approach your choice of entertainment: I wager there are certain genres you prefer over others. Pick a genre (aka, a general category of religion). Then, within that genre, explore and allow yourself to be inspired by things on their own merits, rather than listening so much to what other fans of the genre are telling you. Yeah, other fans can be useful, but not every science fiction fan is going to love everything in that genre. It's the same with a religious demographic. People pick their favorites, they find their niche. Those favorites and niches can change over time, and probably should, as you change as a person. Thinking of finding a religion as a destination instead of a journey or a lived way of life... maybe that is part of the issue? I don't know... you would know better than I. At any rate, do remember that you build your own religion - that religion of one is uniquely yours, even if you share a common fandom with others.

It's worth noting that theism and atheism in of themselves are not genres - they are not religions. They have very little to offer - to the point that I would just about say they have nothing to offer in of themselves. Theology, on the other hand, does have something to offer, whereas the lack of any theology is... well... nothing offers nothing. But if theology isn't your thing, might as well cast it by the wayside and not waste your time with it. There are other genres. Work with philosophy instead, maybe social sciences. Whatever is your thing.

I guess I like having my niche, label and community. It's a cozy feeling.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If I may, have you read the Tao Te Ching? You could do worse.

Yes, I was thinking about reading it. Thanks!

 

[YmirGF]

I'm not seeing this connection between questions of self-worth and one's status as a theist or atheist. Could you explain this one to me?

I like you, Quinty, but I have things to do right now. Perhaps give it some thought.

 

[allfoak]

I guess I like having my niche, label and community. It's a cozy feeling.

If we all understood that that is the condition of all of us, then we wouldn't get so upset when we got poked once in a while.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Personally I've got nothing to sell. I look at the world and the universe and see things proceeding by natural forces, with no 'higher force' necessary. So I'm not convinced gods or god like forces are necessary to the equation of us, life, the formation of Earth or formation of the cosmos.

 

[Twilight Hue]

After trying to figure exactly which religion I should adhere to, I finally realized that it can't be proven, so I have decided to be agnostic. It seems so wishy-washy. Give me some reasons to consider atheism.

What is it exactly that makes you agnostic?