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Featured Atheists: If God existed would God… (Continued)

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Trailblazer, Aug 3, 2022.

  1. Ella S.

    Ella S. Existentialist Anarchist

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    Then God is logically impossible and, thus, we can safely say that we know God does not exist, under epistemic logic.

    Good discussion.
     
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  2. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

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    I am glad we agree that many hypocritical Christians cherry-pick from the Bible.
    And of course, as I said above, the same goes for many hypocritical Bahia’s, Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims …
     
  3. Ella S.

    Ella S. Existentialist Anarchist

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    This really struck a chord with me in a profound way. I'm kind of at a loss for words.

    You just put a lot of ideas I had been considering into one simple passage. That's marvelous. It hits me more than any religious text I've ever studied.

    I'm genuinely humbled by what you've written here. No joke. I think I'm going to set some time aside to contemplate it.
     
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  4. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I said: Atheists like to apply logic to God but logic cannot be applied to God.
    I believe the reason logic cannot be applied to God is as follows:

    Everything in this physical world is subject to the rules of logic but the rules of logic do not apply to God. God is and has always been immensely exalted beyond all that can ever be recounted or perceived, everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men. Such an entity can never be subject to human logic because one cannot encapsulate an infinite God with the finite human mind.

    Why do you think that would make the existence of God logically impossible?
     
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  5. Ella S.

    Ella S. Existentialist Anarchist

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    Because if something does not follow the laws of logic, then it is considered "metaphysically impossible" which is a subset of subjunctive/alethic possibility in modal logic.

    Epistemic logic is (usually) based on modal logic, so it adopts the same concept of alethic possibility.

    In plain English, it's logically impossible to not be subject to the laws of logic and it is illogical to believe in anything that isn't subject to them.
     
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  6. Nakosis

    Nakosis Time Efficient Lollygagger
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    To this point I would agree. There is no reason to think any human would know what God would do.

    Here, you choose to believe that God would send Messengers to tell humanity about themselves. Here you are doing the same you accuse some atheists of. Believing this is something God would do.

    How is this any different from an atheist choosing to believe that God would do this or that and making an argument from it?
     
  7. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    There are contradictions between each gospel, which leads me to personally believe, this is only my opinion, that the accounts in some cases are incorrect, especially in Luke. Luke is where Christ said this:
    24:38 And he said unto them, Why are ye troubled? and why do thoughts arise in your hearts? 24:39 Behold my hands and my feet, that it is I myself: handle me, and see; for a spirit hath not flesh and bones, as ye see me have.
    (King James Bible, Luke)

    Also in Luke:
    24:42 And they gave him a piece of a broiled fish, and of an honeycomb.

    24:43 And he took it, and did eat before them.

    This last could be symbolic and not incorrect: A fish in the early church was a symbol of Christ. Just a guess.
     
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  8. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    That's because you've confined your concept of God to a small box.
     
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  9. Truthseeker

    Truthseeker Non-debating member when I can help myself

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    We believe this not because we can any conception of what God is, but because our Messenger has said this. That's what a Messenger does, tell us something that otherwise we couldn't know about God otherwise. Of course believing in our Messenger should come after independent investigation. This Hidden Word of Baha'u'llah tells us this:

    2. O SON OF SPIRIT!
    The best beloved of all things in My sight is Justice; turn not away therefrom if thou desirest Me, and neglect it not that I may confide in thee. By its aid thou shalt see with thine own eyes and not through the eyes of others, and shalt know of thine own knowledge and not through the knowledge of thy neighbor. Ponder this in thy heart; how it behooveth thee to be. Verily justice is My gift to thee and the sign of My loving-kindness. Set it then before thine eyes.
    (Baha'u'llah, The Arabic Hidden Words)

    In the original Arabic, Justice has the connotation of fairness. That is evident in context of this Hidden Word.
     
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  10. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Father's life origin. Not yours baby human man. All men since.

    Father's his story says.

    Living equally. We Came from the eternal being themselves. Parents and animals. Nature kept underground roots in ice age.

    Not you baby man liar. So Jesus isn't from the eternal. Fact.

    Looking back brain damaged using science data only as letter number to make new words. You lied. As you already were lying first. Scientist theist man.

    No man is God. Lawful. Legal. Men who knew father wrote that advice.....no man is God outright.

    Exact. Get your incorrect mind state sorted. As baby man brother was God satanic science life sacrificer. You've always been wrong.

    Proven as you don't stop self Idolating about DNA nationality. It's separation then new life as sacrificed DNA then separation again. Life sacrificed new tribes new men adult leadership thoughts about old wrong.

    Still not father otherwise you would not seek leadership. As father was mutually paired with mother as parents grand parents great grand parents greater than grand parents.

    Together forever mutual. Not leaders just mutual equal adult responsibility to nurture baby humans into their adult place. Mutual. Loved respected and nurtured.

    No argument is even involved. Is how wrong you are. Claim. I have learnt. I want to learn. But I won't as I'm correct already.

    That idealism father said is because you know you are his adult man father natural life. But not his consciousness.

    You only talked about regain of correct conscious advice. As our holy mother taught you by her human abuses agreed by just about all men. That you'd rather agree in self idolations than her equal rights.
     
  11. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    The reason I believe this is what God would do is because there is evidence that God did do it.
    The difference is that there is no evidence for what some atheists believe God would do.
     
  12. rational experiences

    rational experiences Well-Known Member

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    Evidence in creation that we hadn't existed in creation.

    O mass burning firming by water droplets forming in space. That froze as water upon soils form as a mass.

    Origin position is termed gods exact position by humans thinking.

    Then on earth water it's type is a mass as water.

    Human theist says mass belongs only to God.

    We aren't God.
     
  13. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

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    Oh, I totally agree. There is so much hypocrisy around this idea that what the Bible says can be interpreted in a way that makes MrB’s words true. If one can do this, then of course the authors of the many books of the Bible can be seen to REALLY say what MrB says.

    It’s just that the Bahai’s have to do an awful lot of jiggery-pokery to get to this point. Cherry-picking and eisegesis are just two examples.

    Actually, Fundy Christians display the same narrow mindset, albeit in the opposite direction.. Many of these folk read the 66 books of the Bible and fail to understand that they contain different types and styles of writing. For example:

    Laws and Rules
    Historical narrative
    Historical dramaPoetry & Songs
    Prophecy
    Wisdom Sayings & Proverbs
    Gospels
    Letters
     
  14. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I am glad you agree with me after all rhe crap.
     
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  15. Ella S.

    Ella S. Existentialist Anarchist

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    A box called "the actual world" that leaves out what isn't true, yes. That's the whole point.

    And that's not just snark, "actual world" is the technical term in modal logic.
     
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  16. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

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    Likewise, Christine! And I trust you also agree with me that there are many hypocritical Bahia’s, Atheists, Agnostics, Muslims …
     
  17. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I think i mentioned theists. What have atheiests to do with religion
     
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  18. Sheldon

    Sheldon Veteran Member

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    Of course it's not rational, because it is a straw man fallacy you have created, no atheist BY DEFINITION blames any deity for anything. As others have tried to explain, you are misunderstanding a rational extrapolation by atheists of the consequences of certain theistic beliefs, as if atheists themselves believe the result, when they quite obviously don't.
     
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  19. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

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    You've never come across an atheist who is hypocritical?
    You've never come across an atheist who loves to talk about religion?
     
  20. samtonga43

    samtonga43 Well-Known Member

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    It's surprising that Tb cannot get to grips with this very obvious fallacy that every other poster can see. (And very ironic!)
     
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