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Featured Atheists have faith.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    When Jesus was speaking to his disciples, please explain for us what Jesus was saying at Luke 19:11-15 .
     
  2. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not know what those verses mean. What do you believe they mean?
     
  3. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Again, why do you take this literally when you don't take other verses literally? And do you believe John the apostle wrote this gospel? If not, who did and why would we trust him as being accurate on quoting things that Jesus had supposedly said? Are similar verses where he says "it is finished" found in other gospels? If you believe it was John that wrote it, when did he write it? How many years after the events did he write it? Was he quoting the exact words of Jesus or telling his version of the Jesus story... with a few embellishments and liberties with the facts?

    Now the "Lamb" is a central character in Revelation. It might matter. And you say it is not referring to Jesus, great. Then who is it referring to? Do you agree with Tony's guess that it is the Bab? For being a manifestation of God, the Bab is hardly mentioned by Baha'is. Why would he be the main character in Revelation?
     
  4. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    There's more than one verse we should look at. What else do Baha'is use to show that Jesus told of "True Prophets"?
     
  5. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    And what verses do Baha'is use, and how do they interpret them to make the "Lamb" the Bab?
     
  6. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    So you say that Jesus told of Muhammad, the Bab and Baha'u'llah? Which other verses are Baha'is using? Also, did Jews predict and expect four "Messiahs"?
     
  7. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Baha'is believe that this "new Name" is a reference to their prophet Baha'u'llah. But they also believe that since the coming of Jesus, there's been two other "new names", Muhammad and the Bab? They mix and match prophecies to make either the Bab or Baha'u'llah the fulfillment.
     
  8. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    Tony is talking about "manifestations" and calling them "Messengers". So these are people like Krishna, Buddha, Moses, Muhammad and of course their two prophets.
     
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  9. CG Didymus

    CG Didymus Well-Known Member

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    And guess which interpretation Baha'is believe in? They do the same thing. Theirs is the true one. And that is the question. Why is their right and the other ones wrong?
     
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  10. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    This is the quote and I am happy to give a few thoughts, my own take, as there is no official Baha'i view on these passages.

    11 And as they heard these things, he added and spake a parable, because he was nigh to Jerusalem, and because they thought that the kingdom of God should immediately appear.

    12 He said therefore, A certain nobleman went into a far country to receive for himself a kingdom, and to return.

    13 And he called his ten servants, and delivered them ten pounds, and said unto them, Occupy till I come.

    14 But his citizens hated him, and sent a message after him, saying, We will not have this man to reign over us.

    15 And it came to pass, that when he was returned, having received the kingdom, then he commanded these servants to be called unto him, to whom he had given the money, that he might know how much every man had gained by trading.

    Firstly in verse 11 it can be considered that Jesus is telling them that the Kingdom of God does not appear like an instant miracle, that it unfolds over time and offers a parable as to how it does and will unfold in the future.

    Verse 12 can be seen as a prophecy that a Messenger of God comes and leaves a trust and then departs with the promise to return.

    Verse 13 seems to be offering that the trust was that Message and they were to live by it until the promise was fulfilled.

    Verse 14 appears to be saying most of them did not want to live by that word and eventually live by their own rules and understandings.

    Verse 15 can be seen as the return, and the invitation to the new Message and how much faith was gained by the practice they had previously claimed and are to be judged by that practice.

    Regards Tony
     
    #470 TransmutingSoul, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
  11. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    If there is One God for all humanity, and Baha'u'llah was the one promised in all religions, then would that answer the question?

    Regards Tony
     
  12. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    It is worth consideration as to how many Christains think that they are the Prophets being spoke of in the Bible, just because they say we beleive.

    Personally I see that is the opposite of humility.

    Regards Tony
     
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  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    This has been covered in great detail in pasts threads, so let's leave that for this OP.

    Why do you see atheists would practice moral and virtues, which obviously is more a spiritual choice over material benefits?

    Regards Tony
     
  14. Trailblazer

    Trailblazer Veteran Member

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    I do not need to know all of that. Even if John was not accurate there is not one single verse in the entire New Testament where Jesus says He is coming back to earth, so in light of that it makes sense that the plain meaning of these verses in John are correct. The same Jesus is not coming back to earth in the same body, period.
    I agree with Tony, the Lamb is the Bab.
     
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  15. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Have you read the story of the Bab. If so you would know that everything a Christian would use to demonstrate that Jesus was the Lamb, would also be mirrored in the life and Message of the Bab. Except, the Bab has much more to offer, as there is many more prophecies pointing to the time of the Bab, than to the time of Jesus.

    Regards Tony
     
    #475 TransmutingSoul, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  16. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    I do not see that the Jews did expect that more Messages would unfold before they embraced the Messiah.

    The Old Testament does hint to them, but they were a distant future, and Jesus was yet to come.

    Jesus offered that if you beleive in Moses you would beleive in me, but they did not. As such all what Jesus taught about the Messengers to come is not considered by a Jew.

    The same happened with Muhammad, the Christains do not have the bounty of what was offered by Muhammad, then what was offered by the Bab.

    Hindsight is useful, but not all will use it to its full potential.

    Regards Tony
     
    #476 TransmutingSoul, Oct 16, 2021
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2021
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  17. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    No idea. I only became aware of Baha'i a few years ago and I've never really looked into it. I'm not even sure how to pronounce it.
     
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  18. Subduction Zone

    Subduction Zone Veteran Member

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    You have to be a member of the ultimate inner circle to know this secret, but what the heck:

    It is pronounced "tadpole".
     
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  19. wandering peacefully

    wandering peacefully Which way to the woods?

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    So you started a thread pretending to want to know why atheists don't have or need religious faith yet can still be moral and ethical humans. You were given the answers by many atheists yet here you are again denying their responses.

    It appears your only real interest was an opportunity for more proselytizing . Got it.

    How many times do you believe people will fall for your supposed questions and take time to try to help you with your lack of understanding when you just continue to ignore the answers?

    I'm not wasting any more of my efforts. Keep spreading your ignorance about atheists and faith. If you need to have faith in a God to behave like a moral and ethical human being then by all means, have faith. Lots of faith.
     
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  20. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    If you chiise to be an Athiest to do the same, then that is also great, In this life all will be good.

    Regards Tony
     
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