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Featured Atheists have faith.

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by TransmutingSoul, Oct 11, 2021.

  1. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    I also have faith that pink unicorns, tooth fairies, father Christmas, leprechauns etc don't exist

    I don't know of any atheist who tries "to convince others" that gods don't exist, rather i see it often the other way round, the faithful attempting to convince atheist to believe in something they know is not real. Often at the point of a loaded bible
     
  2. It Aint Necessarily So

    It Aint Necessarily So Well-Known Member
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    You've already acknowledged that you haven't defined what you mean by faith. The word has multiple dictionary definition, but only two that are relevant here: justified belief, and unjustified belief. Calling them both faith creates ambiguity and equivocation fallacies. Personally, I've stopped using the word faith to mean justified belief. Somebody gave the example of expecting one's car to start but knowing that it might not based on experience. That's a very different kind of thinking than having faith that you will have an afterlife. Atheists engage in the former but not the latter, and thus have a reason to keep the two distinct.

    For example, how many times have we seen the false equivalence that atheist have faith in science, so they're no different from theists who have faith in God. It's all faith, right? But this is a classic equivocation fallacy, wherein one uses the same word two different ways in an argument, such as, banks are a good place to keep your money, rivers have banks, therefore rivers are a good place to keep your money.

    It also depends on what you mean by atheists. Many on RF define an atheist as somebody who has positively asserted that there are no gods. That is a faith-based position.
     
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  3. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Yes we know that is what an Atheist will say and I offered this quote in the OP

    "All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living."

    It goes on to say that "This in itself is devotion to God".

    I am just asking about the above actions, are they part of your life?

    If they are, then your actions are as faithful as mine.

    Regards Tony
     
  4. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Wrong, this in itself is devotion to humanity, no god needed to be a decent, caring human being
     
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  5. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Maybe our actions are not that shallow, I will post part of a quote above.

    "All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living.

    It says that if we do the above that "This in itself is devotion to God".

    So it may be an Atheist who implements all the above in their lives may have a stronger faith than many of those that claim a faith.

    I see some people are not ready to admit the good is greater then themselves, then there are many that do all those actions in silence, they are the hidden Gems of our Nations.

    Regards Tony
     
  6. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    So you have Faith that being a decent, caring human being is devotion to Humanity as a whole, that is great, well done I say.

    Regards Tony
     
  7. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    Is having a real faith in pink unicorns, etc. really the exercise of faith/confidence or credulity.
    What else would a Christian use except a 'loaded' (complete) Bible.
    Meaning: using Scripture as Jesus did as being religious truth, Not at biblical gun point.
    An overly zealous person does Not make the Bible as wrong, just makes the person over reacting.
    An English teacher would use English books, a Science teacher would use science books, a history teacher would use history books, a math teacher would use math books so what else would a Christian use but a Christian book aka Bible.
     
  8. URAVIP2ME

    URAVIP2ME Veteran Member

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    An atheist I find can be a decent, caring human as was the neighbory good Samaritan.
    However, what atheist follows Jesus' instructions of Matthew 24:14 to tell others about God's kingdom (Daniel 2:44)
     
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  9. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Don't be sarcastic in ignorance, its not your style
     
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  10. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    I see atheists define that for their own selves.

    I see many people do acts that can only be backed in Faith.

    Like giving to charities, one has Faith that what they offer will help the purpose of that charity.

    I see the only issue here is that many do not want to admit they do things based in Faith, the word is what distracts them.

    Regards Tony
     
  11. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Good on them I say. There is no compulsion in religion, but Faith can move mountains.

    Regards Tony
     
  12. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    Sorry that was not an intent.

    Regards Tony
     
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  13. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    What I am thinking is that there are many levels of Faith.

    We have an ultimate level of Faith right to the complete lack of it.

    So the OP is really about how much Faith does an Atheist really have and how can that be measured?

    I have posted one standard, which reaches towards the highest levels.

    "All humanity must obtain a livelihood by sweat of the brow and bodily exertion, at the same time seeking to lift the burden of others, striving to be the source of comfort to souls and facilitating the means of living."

    It then says that "This in itself is devotion to God".

    Regards Tony
     
  14. TransmutingSoul

    TransmutingSoul One Planet One People Please
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    I see we all have that potential of good in us and we need to be motivated to bring that best out of us.

    That is where I see we need a level of Faith, that the best is the right way.

    Regards Tony
     
  15. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    I see a big distinction between faith, as an example of confidence, and religious faith, which is a belief in a supernatural.

    We can have great confidence in those things we have tested and verified. Have confidence in the love of my wife, for example. I have confidence my car will start. I have confidence that my computer will work.

    Is it possible my confidence will be misplaced? Absolutely. I know it is possible that my car won't start tomorrow. I know it is possible for my computer not to work. And it is possible that the feeling my wife has for me have changed.

    But *religious faith* is a different type of thing altogether. One of the big aspects of religious faith is belief in spite of the lack of evidence. It is also belief through confirmation bias, for example.

    As IANS said above, confidence is 'justified faith' and I see religious faith as being 'unjustified' because it *cannot* be justified. There is no way to really test a religious belief.

    So, the reason I am an atheist (I have no belief in any supernatural or in deities) is precisely the lack of evidence for deities or a supernatural. I do not have religious faith because I demand better evidence than religious faith can provide.

    Morality and aesthetics are not parts of faith in my mind. I neither have confidence nor do I have religious faith in either.
     
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  16. ChristineM

    ChristineM "Be strong" I whispered to my coffee.
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    Just as much an exercise if faith as any faith in a god.

    Well there ya go, how about nothing rather than putting you own guilt on atheists, i will remind you of your words

    Or is it ok for you to try to convince atheist but you object to the obverse?

    Same as previous answer
     
  17. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    And that, to me, seems like religious practitioners trying to say that non-believers are acting under religion anyway.

    Frankly, that sounds a bit presumptuous.
     
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  18. RestlessSoul

    RestlessSoul Well-Known Member

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    I flew from Prague to London this morning. Gravity was no object
     
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  19. John53

    John53 Well-Known Member

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    I don't consider evolution to be shallow.

    Sorry Tony but I don't really understand what you're trying to say here and a quote is only an opinion. What I take from what you've written is that not all heroes wear capes but I'm assuming I'm wrong.
     
  20. Jeremiah Ames

    Jeremiah Ames Well-Known Member

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    imo, I think some people who claim to believe in a god and go to church, can possibly not have any faith. Although they will refer to their “religion” as their faith. Faith is a tough concept to grasp. imo
     
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