Atheists Do It Better

[Revoltingest]

See most threads about religion

More so in politics.

 

[Revoltingest]

I want to focus on this part. I apologize for the additional post right away. I am guessing you are typing up a reply.

The word magic has a specific meaning in Abrahamic Religions.

Belief in magic is expressly forbidden.

If a person claims to be a believer in Abrahamic Religions and that person also believes in magic; that is textbook hypocrisy.

 

[ChristineM]

No, that is not what I'm saying. If the statements were using the words: cosmic super-being, that would be different. Also, in the specific examples, the posts were dogmatic, prejudiced, and intolerant.



Correct. The posters don't specify that the claim is about lack of evidence. That's why I say it's a trap that some Atheists fall into. It's not intentional, and the point they are trying to make is valid. But the way they do it, in those cases, it's dogmatic, prejudiced, and intolerant based on the dictionary definition of those words.



Precisely. Proof is unnecessary when speaking about belief.

The assumption is that people who believe in God claim to be able to prove it.

I know I don't do that. And... in my observation most people who believe in God don't claim that they can prove it.

Only the fundamentalists tend in this direction. And even then. For an Atheist to assume that a God believer claims to be able to prove it; that is technically prejudging that person.

Even if that person in a previous thread claimed to have proof... until that person says it in the current thread; my personal opinion is that is prejudging and possibly intolerant and dogmatic.

It's based on the assumption that the God believer did not change their view in between threads.

But, I do appreciate and I am trying to recognize the history of persecution of Atheists by God believers now. I honestly did not take that into account until recently. And I have you to thank for reminding me of that.

So, while we're here in this conversation. Thank you for reminding me about the years and years of persecution. I am aware it continues to this day. And I am sad and sorry for that.

Dogmatic in your opinion. What do you want, everyone to give up their knowledge/understanding and fall in line with you? You want dogmatic try discussing the flood with a bible literalist or maybe facts about the shroud of turin with a believer in miracles. As for intolerant, having thousands of years of religion based on guesswork shoved down your throat will do that. You really do need to see things from the other perspective.

Again, see things from the other perspective. Without evidence what you have is faith. To an atheist faith comes a distant second to evidence, to the faithful, personal belief outweighs evidence. Again a matter of perspective.

An atheist would, for the most part, require evidence and or logic, if not proof to believe in something, to believe in something as totally improbable as an all being who made it all just for humans to worship him then promptly skipped the universe is too contrary to reality.

Actually most claim they can then go ahead and fail the basic rules of evidence then get all incredulous when you point it out. I believe it is this, pointing out reality that you consider dogmatic.

What is anyone to do if they are told "i can prove it", that proof fails, it is not prejudging, it is post judging failure

Yes it continues but i am glad to see you recognise the existence of persecution. Many dont

 

[dybmh]

We're all assuming that Professor of psychology Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi is a devout member of a fundamentalist congregation, right?

Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi is Israeli?

A few interesting articles to put things in perspective:

hyperlink >>> pewforum.com - Israel’s Religiously Divided Society

According to Pew; most Jewish people in Israel are secular.

hyperlink >>> haaretz.com - You don't need to believe in God to believe in Judaism

"I grew up in a Modern Orthodox community. While the day school I attended was devoutly pluralistic, I was wrapping tefillin (phylacteries), praying three times a day, and keeping strictly kosher. My faith in God was the center of my life and my Judaism. Eight years later, I’m an atheist, but my commitment to Judaism is just as strong."

 

[ChristineM]

I want to focus on this part. I apologize for the additional post right away. I am guessing you are typing up a reply.

The word magic has a specific meaning in Abrahamic Religions.

Belief in magic is expressly forbidden.

If a person claims to be a believer in Abrahamic Religions and that person also believes in magic; that is textbook hypocrisy.

Ahh, interesting. The only way for god creation to happen as described in the bible is by magic but it is expressly forbidden to to entertain magic so god must be __________

I honestly dont know the word to fill in the blank.

But it makes for a great catch 22 situation

 

[Dan Mellis]

Atheists are 75% more likely to go to hell, so much for all those good intentions!!

I'm sure atheists disagree. But for the sake of argument; two equally as mediocre, uninteresting, relatively self-centred but generally ok people die. One is a christian, the other is an atheist. What do you believe happens to their souls?

2nd question, two people who are equally as outstanding and have had huge positive influence on humanity die. One was christian, the other atheist. What happens then?

3rd - Atheist is outstanding, Christian is kinda ok, or is evil and truly repents in his heart of hearts last minute. What then?

None of the atheists have any sort of deathbed conversion

If the answer is everyone goes to heaven, wheres the point in believing? Just be kinda ok to people and you'll be fine. No need to grovel and try to justify unjustifiable positions.

If the answer is that any of the atheists go to hell, how can you possibly come to that conclusion? What makes your belief superior? If you're going to make that claim, provide evidence of your god and of hell. It's no longer a nicety - if you're telling someone they deserve to be tortured forever you must back it up.

Y'know what? I'll make it easier. Prove that being an atheist is inherently less moral - however slightly - than being a christian (the word of god doesn't count as evidence - that's the claim you're trying to prove) and I'll accept that I deserve eternal damnation. Because I'm reasonably confident that I have a stronger case for the inverse being true (I don't believe christians are less moral inherently, but I could still make a stronger argument for that).

 

[sealchan]

Professor of psychology Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi profiled a likely atheist to be this person - “We can say that atheists show themselves to be less authoritarian and suggestible, less dogmatic, less prejudiced, more tolerant of others, law-abiding, compassionate, conscientious, and well-educated. They are of high intelligence, and many are committed to the intellectual and scholarly life.”

1. HAPPINESS
Scandinavian countries tend to be the least religious countries of the Western world and yet are consistently ranked the highest in the polls that measure a happiness index.

2. INTELLIGENCE
Atheists tend to have higher IQs

3. BETTER JOBS
This follows from the previous reason - more intelligent people tend to do better in the workplace.

4. SELF-ESTEEM & SELF-RELIANCE
These are two sides of the same coin. Atheists are not being told that they are guilty and sinful, as is the case with many religious teachings.

5. PROGRESS
Atheists tend to value scientific discovery more

6. HEALTH
Atheists believe in science and would not stand in the way of medical treatments on religious grounds.

7. PEACEFULNESS
Atheists do not start wars or commit acts of terrorism for religious reasons, just to prove their deity is the correct one.

8. SCEPTICISM
Atheists are generally skeptical and tend to look at issues from a rational, often scientific standpoint that demands proof.

9. SOCIAL ISSUES
Atheists tend to be very involved in social justice issues.

10. BETTER SEX
It wouldn't be a worthwhile list if it didn't talk about sex. There have been studies that showed atheists having better sex lives than religious people simply due to not feeling guilty about it.
10 Reasons Atheists Do It Better

Biggest benefit of being an atheist is in not having to justify your life or choices according to some relic of a book.

Not to be too serious but, I never understood the "benefits" of religious belief or really what benefits religion might provide which couldn't be easily obtained without religious belief.

Tithing, volunteering to help those in need, teaching, participating in community activities, finding the meaning in good and bad circumstances...while not exclusive to believers, these are all aspects of the experience of belief in participants in a religious community.

It seems a bit insincere to not be aware of this.

 

[dybmh]

What do you want, everyone to give up their knowledge/understanding and fall in line with you?

No. That's not what I want. Does it seem that I way? Do I somehow come off that way?

As for intolerant, having thousands of years of religion based on guesswork shoved down your throat will do that. You really do need to see things from the other perspective.

I am. I do. Why do you think I don't. That's an assumption on your part. You are prejudging me. Currently. As we speak.

Actually most claim they can then go ahead and fail the basic rules of evidence then get all incredulous when you point it out. I believe it is this, pointing out reality that you consider dogmatic.

Your saying "most". That is an assumption. The truth is you are speaking about a select few. You are speaking about the ones you are debating with here on RF. While at the same time grouping all God believers into one camp, one group... it's labeling. And it's inaccurate.

Please. I am not trying to be rude.

In my observation, most people who believe in God do not believe in God-Magic. They believe in a more practical realistic approach.

They believe that God created Science.

Christine, I want to focus on two things you said that, in my opinion, are good examples of prejudging.

What is anyone to do if they are told "i can prove it", that proof fails, it is not prejudging, it is post judging failure

thousands of years of religion based on guesswork shoved down your throat will do that.

From my observation, people rarely claim "I can prove it". If they do it in a debate and someone calls them on it; that's totally fair.

But I think that an honest assessment will show that the claim, "I can prove it" is assumed. And I think that there are some Atheists who prejudge from time to time that the person they are debating with claims "I can prove God and the Bible are inerrant".

It's an assumption. And it's prejudice.

regarding your comment: "shoved down your throat..."

It's the same thing here. I think that, apologies, maybe, there are times on RF where an assumption is made that a God Believer is "shoving their beliefs" down other people's throats. But, it's not like that at all.

It's assumed, it's prejudging. It's better to wait for the person to demonstrate the "shoving down" their ideas, then call them on it.

Here's an example.

In a recent thread a poster engaged in Hate speech calling me, "the Jew".

I assume the person is racist, bigoted, and has some real problems. But I didn't treat them that way in the thread.

In addition, in the next thread, I won't assume that this person who engaged in hate speech is still racist, bigoted, etc... until they bring that into the next debate.

It's possible that the person has a change of heart; or maybe they are having problems in their personal life; or maybe they are just sleep deprived...

That is me trying not to be prejudiced. Emphasis on **trying**, because really, everyone prejudges all the time.

 

[dybmh]

The only way for god creation to happen as described in the bible is by magic

An example of intolerance.

It's the same intolerance that is demonstrated by people who don't allow LGBTQ people to define their own gender or to choose their own pronouns.

I am telling you. What you are describing is your version of magic.

Then you are applying that version of magic on to me.

And you are claiming there is no other way.

And the tone of your post isn't dogmatic?

Here's the Google Definition of Dogmatic:

"inclined to lay down principles as incontrovertibly true."

synonyms: opinionated, peremptory, assertive, imperative, insistent, emphatic, adamant, doctrinaire, authoritarian, authoritative, domineering, imperious, high-handed, pontifical, arrogant, overbearing, dictatorial, uncompromising, unyielding, unbending, inflexible, rigid, entrenched, unquestionable, unchallengeable; More.

Incontrovertibly True.

That is precisely what you are doing right now.

It sounds like you want a free pass to be dogmatic, and prejudiced.

Is that what you want?

Do you want permission to be dogmatic and prejudiced because in your view religion is being shoved down your throat?

 

[Thief]

Don't hate me cuz I'm pretty.

ok.....I won't hate you
cause you ain't pretty

 

[Revoltingest]

ok.....I won't hate you
cause you ain't pretty

Those come hither eyes say otherwise.

 

[Thief]

Those come hither eyes say otherwise.

hey!.....don't try to be cute

you might hurt yourself

 

[dybmh]

This is a beautiful moment you two...

 

[Revoltingest]

This is a beautiful moment you two...

Someone is coyly suggesting a threesome?

 

[Augustus]

More so in politics.

You mean it isn't a scientific fact that all gun owners have tiny little micro-penises?

 

[Revoltingest]

You mean it isn't a scientific fact that all gun owners have tiny little micro-penises?

Only those whom @Skwim personally checks.
Selection bias is possible.

 

[dybmh]

Someone is coyly suggesting a threesome?

Ack! RunAway! RunAway!

 

[Augustus]

Only those whom @Skwim personally checks.
Selection bias is possible.

To be fair, they were probably 13 year-olds.

 

[Thief]

oh oh

 

[BilliardsBall]

Professor of psychology Benjamin Beit-Hallahmi profiled a likely atheist to be this person - “We can say that atheists show themselves to be less authoritarian and suggestible, less dogmatic, less prejudiced, more tolerant of others, law-abiding, compassionate, conscientious, and well-educated. They are of high intelligence, and many are committed to the intellectual and scholarly life.”

1. HAPPINESS
Scandinavian countries tend to be the least religious countries of the Western world and yet are consistently ranked the highest in the polls that measure a happiness index.

2. INTELLIGENCE
Atheists tend to have higher IQs

3. BETTER JOBS
This follows from the previous reason - more intelligent people tend to do better in the workplace.

4. SELF-ESTEEM & SELF-RELIANCE
These are two sides of the same coin. Atheists are not being told that they are guilty and sinful, as is the case with many religious teachings.

5. PROGRESS
Atheists tend to value scientific discovery more

6. HEALTH
Atheists believe in science and would not stand in the way of medical treatments on religious grounds.

7. PEACEFULNESS
Atheists do not start wars or commit acts of terrorism for religious reasons, just to prove their deity is the correct one.

8. SCEPTICISM
Atheists are generally skeptical and tend to look at issues from a rational, often scientific standpoint that demands proof.

9. SOCIAL ISSUES
Atheists tend to be very involved in social justice issues.

10. BETTER SEX
It wouldn't be a worthwhile list if it didn't talk about sex. There have been studies that showed atheists having better sex lives than religious people simply due to not feeling guilty about it.
10 Reasons Atheists Do It Better

Biggest benefit of being an atheist is in not having to justify your life or choices according to some relic of a book.

Not to be too serious but, I never understood the "benefits" of religious belief or really what benefits religion might provide which couldn't be easily obtained without religious belief.

Fantastic post! Now please explain what the heck it's doing posted on a RELIGIOUS FORUM for people to explore RELIGION, not how the lack of it is a "virtue".