Atheists are the Key

[RamaRaksha]

The 4 dominant religions can be divided into two - on one side stand King/Master religions - God is seen more as a Master - get down on your knees and swear loyalty(belief in today's religions) and hope for a reward. Actions don't matter, only belief matters and you better believe in the "right" God. One can serve only one master, hence the One God - but be clear that they are talking about One NAME for God, not the One God who created us all
The ideas are very simple, quite primitive in fact - back in the day Kings were masters of their land ruling with an iron fist and He was the template for these religions - the King decided the quality and quantity of life of his subjects/slaves/servants. Hence swear your loyalty, beg for his forgiveness and enjoy the good life in heaven

The other two - Hinduism/Buddhism stress action - Actions(Karmas) alone matter - belief is not necessary nor is required. These are Parent/Teacher faiths - God is seen more as a Parent/Teacher - everyone knows that Buddhism is a Teacher faith, but even in Hinduism God Krishna made it clear that He would only Advice and Instruct - nothing more - that is a Teacher. The goal is not pleasures of the flesh as in heaven but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - in fact, to be a God!

See the difference between the two - Heaven and Moksha - one is given, you can beg for it, whereas Moksha is Earned, you cannot beg for it. Easy to understand - you give some money to a beggar - which he can then use to buy food or clothes or pay rent - pleasures of the flesh. Whereas Knowledge cannot be given - whether you want to learn a new language, play an instrument, learn math - all these have to be Earned

And so, where does your religion fall into within these two categories? Simple - does your faith welcome Atheists? or does it teach hatred against Atheists? If it is the former then clearly it is saying your actions matter - somewhat like getting a job because of what you know instead of who you know. The King/Master religions are who-you-know religions - to get to heaven you must profess your belief in their God - whereas in Parent/Teacher faiths it is what-you-know, basically what you have done with your life is all that matters

 

[Riverwolf]

Which one is it?

Depends on which Gods a person worships, and their relationship with said Gods.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Which one is it?

Depends on which Gods a person worships, and their relationship with said Gods.

An Atheist does not worship any Gods and some religions do not insist on that criteria. Actions matter - True worship is done with Actions - when you volunteer your time at a shelter - that is worship that God finds pleasing. A dancer dancing in a Hindu Temple sings - "See my art, God, this is my worship"

King/Master religions have brainwashed people that worship only means using words directed at a Super being - it is appealing - just words - as they say, talk is cheap. Actions are harder and so not-so favored

 

[Riverwolf]

An Atheist does not worship any Gods and some religions do not insist on that criteria. Actions matter - True worship is done with Actions - when you volunteer your time at a shelter - that is worship that God finds pleasing. A dancer dancing in a Hindu Temple sings - "See my art, God, this is my worship"

King/Master religions have brainwashed people that worship only means using words directed at a Super being - it is appealing - just words - as they say, talk is cheap. Actions are harder and so not-so favored

Not all Gods are pleased by the things we do everyday, though many certainly are. There are Gods who are worshiped best by out of the ordinary things, set apart from the mundane world.

Þunor wēoha.

Different modes of worship for different Gods.

Pretty sure the Gods I worship don't much care whether they're "believed in" or not, though.

 

[Katzpur]

The 4 dominant religions can be divided into two - on one side stand King/Master religions - God is seen more as a Master - get down on your knees and swear loyalty(belief in today's religions) and hope for a reward. Actions don't matter, only belief matters and you better believe in the "right" God. One can serve only one master, hence the One God - but be clear that they are talking about One NAME for God, not the One God who created us all
The ideas are very simple, quite primitive in fact - back in the day Kings were masters of their land ruling with an iron fist and He was the template for these religions - the King decided the quality and quantity of life of his subjects/slaves/servants. Hence swear your loyalty, beg for his forgiveness and enjoy the good life in heaven

The other two - Hinduism/Buddhism stress action - Actions(Karmas) alone matter - belief is not necessary nor is required. These are Parent/Teacher faiths - God is seen more as a Parent/Teacher - everyone knows that Buddhism is a Teacher faith, but even in Hinduism God Krishna made it clear that He would only Advice and Instruct - nothing more - that is a Teacher. The goal is not pleasures of the flesh as in heaven but Moksha - Enlightenment, Knowledge - in fact, to be a God!

See the difference between the two - Heaven and Moksha - one is given, you can beg for it, whereas Moksha is Earned, you cannot beg for it. Easy to understand - you give some money to a beggar - which he can then use to buy food or clothes or pay rent - pleasures of the flesh. Whereas Knowledge cannot be given - whether you want to learn a new language, play an instrument, learn math - all these have to be Earned

And so, where does your religion fall into within these two categories?

Neither. You have not described the Abrahamic religions the way I see them at all, at least not mine. I am a Christian, and to me, actions matter a lot.

Simple - does your faith welcome Atheists?

Sure, atheists are always welcome to join us in our worship services.

or does it teach hatred against Atheists?

My faith doesn't teach hatred towards anyone.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Not all Gods are pleased by the things we do everyday, though many certainly are. There are Gods who are worshiped best by out of the ordinary things, set apart from the mundane world.

Þunor wēoha.

Different modes of worship for different Gods.

Pretty sure the Gods I worship don't much care whether they're "believed in" or not, though.

Agree with you on the last sentence. The prior ones though - how is it any different from pleasing a rich man or a king and hoping for a reward? I am not much for a believer in God or Gods, i look for rational explanations and i see most people see God or Gods as a giver of gifts - to be pleased by our praises - just as any old king or rich man. The king or rich man knows all these praises are not for him but for his money

Can we do better?

 

[Quintessence]

Well, being an adherent of none of those religions, mine, unsurprisingly, falls into neither of those categories. Notions of salvation are not particularly important in Paganisms, Druidry included.

 

[RamaRaksha]

Neither. You have not described the Abrahamic religions the way I see them at all, at least not mine. I am a Christian, and to me, actions matter a lot.

Sure, atheists are always welcome to join us in our worship services.

My faith doesn't teach hatred towards anyone.

Good to hear that actions do matter but is there a but to it? Can you say belief does not matter at all? Only by actions are you defined? That is what Hinduism teaches - we are defined by our Karmas(Actions) and clearly Buddhism all about actions

Can you explain why Atheists are hated in the US? In most polls only muslims beat them in unlikeability - what have they done to deserve it? I see that you are a mormon - have heard a lot of stories that in Utah if you are not mormon, you are discriminated socially. Is that true?

As for atheists being welcome at your worship services - that's not what accepting them is all about - that's nothing more than trying to convert people to your religion. When we say actions matter it means one doesn't have to belong to any religion or believe in any Gods

 

[RamaRaksha]

Well, being an adherent of none of those religions, mine, unsurprisingly, falls into neither of those categories. Notions of salvation are not particularly important in Paganisms, Druidry included.

Well, Moksha is not salvation - people make a big deal out of it but it is basically gaining Knowledge, that's all. No magic, no miracle, no fantasy lands of heaven

But i assume you don't find Atheists or Atheism distasteful or preach hatred against them, you let them be who they are, so that would put you in the latter category

 

[Thief]

what you have done with your life is all that matters

it took the whole paragraph to get to the point.

 

[Willamena]

Interesting caricatures of religion.

 

[Riverwolf]

Agree with you on the last sentence. The prior ones though - how is it any different from pleasing a rich man or a king and hoping for a reward?

I'm... honestly not even sure where you saw that.

When you are in positive relationships with people, regardless of their economic or political standings relative to yours, don't you want to keep frith with them?

 

[Katzpur]

Good to hear that actions do matter but is there a but to it? Can you say belief does not matter at all?

Of course I wouldn't say that belief doesn't matter at all. I was merely responding to your statement that "actions don't matter; only beliefs matter."

Only by actions are you defined? That is what Hinduism teaches - we are defined by our Karmas(Actions) and clearly Buddhism all about actions

In my religion, our actions are a direct result of our belief in Jesus Christ and the example He set for us.

Can you explain why Atheists are hated in the US? In most polls only muslims beat them in unlikeability - what have they done to deserve it?

In most cases, they have done nothing to deserve the hatred they get.

I see that you are a mormon - have heard a lot of stories that in Utah if you are not mormon, you are discriminated socially. Is that true?

That's something that people who hate Mormons almost as much as they hate atheists and Muslims would like you to believe. And no, it's not true.

As for atheists being welcome at your worship services - that's not what accepting them is all about - that's nothing more than trying to convert people to your religion.

If somebody shows up at a Mormon worship service uninvited, it's hard fair to accuse us of trying to convert them. We seek converts because we believe we have something worth sharing, and for no other reason.

When we say actions matter it means one doesn't have to belong to any religion or believe in any Gods

Actions matter. There is no doubt about that. That said, if God (i.e. the Abrahamic God) really does exist, it would only make sense that He would want people to believe accurate information about Him and what He expects of them. Wouldn't you agree? You may find it interesting to learn, though, that of all the Christian denominations, Mormonism is the only one that teaches, as an official doctrine, that virtually everyone who has ever lived -- regardless of beliefs (or lack of belief at all) -- will ultimately end up in Heaven.

 

[RamaRaksha]

I'm... honestly not even sure where you saw that.

When you are in positive relationships with people, regardless of their economic or political standings relative to yours, don't you want to keep frith with them?

You talked about Gods and pleasing them etc - almost like doing things so that a rich man will be pleased and give us the good life

All we can control are our actions and if you view God as a Parent or Teacher, we all want to make them Proud, that's where actions come in. Whereas in King/Master religions the word pleasing Him comes in - get down on one's knees, swear loyalty and beg for his mercy - pleased He will give us the good life

The Terminology is important - study the Terminology of Abrahamic religions - they are different from Eastern faiths

 

[Riverwolf]

You talked about Gods and pleasing them etc - almost like doing things so that a rich man will be pleased and give us the good life

Well, that's not the context that I was coming from. I was coming from the context of frith.

All we can control are our actions and if you view God as a Parent or Teacher, we all want to make them Proud, that's where actions come in. Whereas in King/Master religions the word pleasing Him comes in - get down on one's knees, swear loyalty and beg for his mercy - pleased He will give us the good life

The Terminology is important - study the Terminology of Abrahamic religions - they are different from Eastern faiths

And the Terminology of both of those are different from that of the Northern religions. A King in the Chrisitan sense is quite different from a King in the Heathen sense. (Apparently some modern Thedes just eschew the term altogether because of its Christian baggage.)

 

[RamaRaksha]

Of course I wouldn't say that belief doesn't matter at all. I was merely responding to your statement that "actions don't matter; only beliefs matter."

Actions matter. There is no doubt about that. That said, if God (i.e. the Abrahamic God) really does exist, it would only make sense that He would want people to believe accurate information about Him and what He expects of them. Wouldn't you agree? You may find it interesting to learn, though, that of all the Christian denominations, Mormonism is the only one that teaches, as an official doctrine, that virtually everyone who has ever lived -- regardless of beliefs (or lack of belief at all) -- will ultimately end up in Heaven.

No, you can't have it both ways - it is like applying for a job or a promotion - a person must be judged based on his resume alone - his or her actions. Bring in any other factor and you taint the process

Accurate info - based on what? The same religion that said the sun circled the earth? that the earth is 5,000 years old? Think of it like you looking down at an ant hill - do you really care whether the ants look up to you and believe in you? How dare they go about their life without bowing to you? God couldn't care less whether you believe or not, but actions do matter

As for ultimately ending up in Heaven - please consider that not everyone wants to get to heaven - God's retirement home - it is just a fantasy, that's all - i have no wish to go sit in some cartoon world, snoring away eternity. People had no idea what happens after death and religions were more than happy to fill their ears with tales of magic lands of plenty and if anyone asked for evidence for such tall tales, they responded with threats of hell. Very simple and primitive ideas

 

[RamaRaksha]

Well, that's not the context that I was coming from. I was coming from the context of frith.



And the Terminology of both of those are different from that of the Northern religions. A King in the Chrisitan sense is quite different from a King in the Heathen sense. (Apparently some modern Thedes just eschew the term altogether because of its Christian baggage.)

I looked up the word Frith in wiki and this is what i got -
"The word friþgeard meaning "asylum, sanctuary" was used for sacrosanct areas. A friþgeard would then be any enclosed area given over to the worship of the gods. Seating oneself on a frith-stool was sometimes a requirement for claiming sanctuary in certain English churches.
Frith is also used in the context of fealty, as an expression of the relationship between a lord and his people"

Again regardless i see that you WANT something from God whereas Atheists as you know are not about wanting anything from a super being

 

[Katzpur]

Some people just like to argue for the sake of arguing. You're clearly one of those people.

No, you can't have it both ways - it is like applying for a job or a promotion - a person must be judged based on his resume alone - his or her actions. Bring in any other factor and you taint the process.

If you say so. You clearly have an "in" that none of the rest of us have.

Accurate info - based on what?

The truth.

The same religion that said the sun circled the earth? that the earth is 5,000 years old? Think of it like you looking down at an ant hill - do you really care whether the ants look up to you and believe in you? How dare they go about their life without bowing to you? God couldn't care less whether you believe or not, but actions do matter

How do you know what God cares about any more than anybody else does. You're pretty good at put-downs, aren't you? Tell me, what do you get out of mocking people you don't even know? And what makes you think you even know what I believe? You clearly have me mixed up with somebody else entirely.

As for ultimately ending up in Heaven - please consider that not everyone wants to get to heaven

Well, you certainly aren't going to be forced in, so don't lose any sleep over it.

- God's retirement home - it is just a fantasy, that's all - i have no wish to go sit in some cartoon world, snoring away eternity. People had no idea what happens after death and religions were more than happy to fill their ears with tales of magic lands of plenty and if anyone asked for evidence for such tall tales, they responded with threats of hell. Very simple and primitive ideas

Yeah, I think you've got a good head on your shoulders, too. You didn't even ask what I think Heaven will be like. You just told me what it isn't and then insulted me. You want to find someone who enjoys being put down? Look elsewhere. I have more important things to do than try to engage in a conversation with someone who is as condescending as you. See ya.

 

[Riverwolf]

I looked up the word Frith in wiki and this is what i got -
"The word friþgeard meaning "asylum, sanctuary" was used for sacrosanct areas. A friþgeard would then be any enclosed area given over to the worship of the gods. Seating oneself on a frith-stool was sometimes a requirement for claiming sanctuary in certain English churches.
Frith is also used in the context of fealty, as an expression of the relationship between a lord and his people"

Again regardless i see that you WANT something from God whereas Atheists as you know are not about wanting anything from a super being

Frith is a tricky word because it's only recently come back into Modern English usage, and even then almost exclusively among Heathens. A wikipeda entry isn't going to sufficiently explain what it is.

Here's another explanation: https://theodishheathen.wordpress.com/tag/firth/
If you have an hour, the podcast Heathen Talk did an entire episode about it.

Atheists, by the way, simply lack belief in Gods. That doesn't mean they can't participate in the rituals if they want, or get something out of them.

 

[Quagmire]

My faith welcomes anybody except know-it-alls and people who wear socks with sandals.