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Featured Atheists are more pro-life than Christians

Discussion in 'Atheism' started by Altfish, Jun 16, 2021.

  1. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Personhood is a philosophical issue, not a medical science issue.
     
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  2. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    I can agree that locking up a murderer or rapist is beneficial to the safety of the public. But can’t we do more? It just seems a bit simplistic. Other countries seem to do better with rehabilitation than mere “justice.”
    Granted perhaps a serial killer might be more of a scientific study than a candidate for rehabilitation, I suppose
     
  3. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Yes, we should be focusing on rehabilitation, for sure. Unfortunately, some types of people cannot be rehabilitated (like full-blown psychopaths of the Jimmy Savile or Ted Bundy type). Some people are just evil and love it.
     
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  4. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Ahh fair enough. I agree
     
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  5. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    So I support both - rehabilitate and help those you can, while retaining capital punishment for serious, depraved crimes. However America really needs massive reform of its prisons from the ground up because of the huge amounts of corruption, the out of control violence and gang issues in prison. It's worse in prison than it is on the street for many people, and it's because we let our prisons be hellholes, and now we have private prisons with even less oversight. It's a huge, shameful mess.

    The courts and appeals process are a huge, bloated mess, too. It's all a wreck here.
     
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  6. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    I’m still not sure how private prisons are even supposed to work. I mean we have a few here on a “20 year trial” which I don’t believe for a second but whatever. But doesn’t that just incentivise the industry to keep people in crime?
     
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  7. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Yes, it does. It's the same with military contractors, the mercenary industry (which the US is using more and more of all the time) and the weapons industry (Raytheon, Lockheed, etc) having a stake in keeping the business of war going. It's all a racket.
     
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  8. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Well the US do like to act like they are the “world police”
    If you don’t mind me saying so
     
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  9. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    The government sells military equipment to police departments all over the country, too. It's all linked.
     
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  10. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    Save for habitual serial killers, please let us abolish capital punishment against non serial killers. Please let us consider reforming our criminal justice system to mostly emulate the Norwegian criminal justice system. Norway has a decent legal justice system where nobody can be sentence to more than 21 years imprisonment. Also, their prisons treat everybody with dignity and respect. The prison guards are mostly unarmed and they often socially interact with inmates during meals or recreational activities. Norwegian inmates get job training, and well-educated so that they are far less likely to be criminal re-offenders. Norway's homicide rate is around 10 times lower than the U. S. Homicide rate.
     
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  11. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Nope. I support it for serial rape, severe animal torture and cruelty (only psychopaths do the sorts of things to animals I'm thinking of as examples of this, anyway), serious treason (there goes the Bush, Jr administration) and severe financial crimes that wreck economies. So not just murder.
     
  12. Suave

    Suave Active Member

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    I'm certainly against serial raping being a capital offense, because there's been dozens of wrongfully convicted persons who were falsely accused of being serial rapists.

    Reference: Serial Rapists and Wrongful Conviction - Oxford Clinical Psychology

    Keep in mind, capital punishment is final, there'd be no way to compensate anybody wrongfully executed for crimes he was wrongfully convicted of.
     
  13. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Yes, and there's been people wrongly convicted of murder. That is terrible. But the principle remains, regardless. We just must always do what we can to improve things. It's really about ethics and principles, to me. I do not expect the government to enact my ideas, that's for sure.
     
  14. Suave

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    Because many people have been wrongly convicted of murder, I am against capital punishment for almost any convicted murderer, perhaps save for the few heinous serial killers.
     
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  15. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Justice being vengeance.
    Governents seek to maintain order by monopolizing the violent retribution that would otherwise lead to endless feuding.
    It's not "justice" that goverments seek, but order.
     
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  16. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    Some people are unable to experience empathy. They don't love evil, they're just not wired for coöperative social interactions or altruism. They're neurologic social defectives.
     
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  17. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    Even a corrupt, murderous warlord can "maintain order". Our aims should be higher than that mere baseline.
     
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  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
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    And their recidivism rate is minuscule.
     
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  19. SomeRandom

    SomeRandom Still learning to be wise
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    Yikes! Do you have police over there or a military?
     
  20. Saint Frankenstein

    Saint Frankenstein Veteran Member
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    They're both a bit of both at this point, lol.
     
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