Atheists and spirituality

[Unveiled Artist]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

Define "supernatural."

 

[The Hammer]

Define "supernatural."

adjective

1. (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

 

[Rational Agnostic]

adjective

1. (of a manifestation or event) attributed to some force beyond scientific understanding or the laws of nature.

Obviously there are plenty of things beyond scientific understanding. That doesn't mean that they're beyond the laws of nature, though.

 

[epronovost]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

I call myself an atheist and don't believe in any supernatural creature or phenomenon.

 

[Yazata]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-)

I think of myself as an 'agnostic'.

because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

My atheism, such as it is, is the belief that none of the deities of the religions (Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, Vishnu and all the rest) actually name anything with any objective existence in its own right. I perceive them more like characters in fiction, human creations.

That being said, I also think of the reality around me as the greatest of mysteries at its core. I don't have a clue what the 'secret of the universe' is. I don't know how the universe originated, how it got the order that it seemingly displays, what its ultimate ground of being is, or any of that. I don't know why existence exists, why there is something rather than nothing.

I feel surrounded by mysteries at every moment. That's what's motivated my lifelong interest in philosophy.

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things

Perhaps I can define' nature' for the purposes of this post as the space-time-matter realm that is knowable to the conventional senses (or their instrumental extensions) through causal interactions. In that case, 'supernatural' would refer to any kind of hypothetical entities that aren't knowable in that empirical way, entities that don't interact causally with us in such a way as to be knowable by our senses (or by instruments) and may not be part of the space-time-matter realm with which science concerns itself.

I'm fascinated by the problem cases that inhabit the fuzzy edges of the scientific worldview and upon which that worldview depends. There are numbers for instance, and mathematical structures. There are principles of logical inference. There are ideas, concepts and meanings. None of these are on the face of it physical entities. It isn't entirely clear what kind of being they have or even how we know about them.

I'm not an adherent of metaphysical naturalism, the belief that nothing can possibly exist but the natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind found in the natural sciences (most notably physics). Even if it was true, I don't know of any way that anyone could actually know it.

On the other hand, I tend towards methodological naturalism, since anything that's unknowable to a being like me doesn't really play any role in my thinking, since by definition I have no way of knowing about those things. It's just that I can't justifiably dismiss the possibility that things are happening that beings like me know nothing about.

Put another way, I have no way of being certain that today's scientific worldview is coextensive with reality itself.

 

[osgart]

I deny anything benevolent or supernatural is going on, thus no God.

I do believe in an intelligent natural source for all the intelligence in nature though.

I don't even want to be an atheist, but I am atheist just this way.

 

[Samael_Khan]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

I only call myself an atheist on the forum for convenience sake. I never refer to myself as such in reality as I don't focus on the label as it is too restrictive.

I suspect what is referred to as supernatural might exist because of other's experiences but I wouldn't necessarily say that that is beyond the laws of nature. I think that everything that exists can be explained, and follows the laws of nature, but we might not have found or be able to examine such laws with our abilities. Even if God hypothetically existed, he would be made out of something and everything he makes will be according to some laws.

I mean, what do we even consider natural laws? Just the laws we know of?

 

[rocala]

I do not believe in a creator god. I do tend to believe in various other beings. I also believe that my beliefs are a work in progress and may change.

 

[Nakosis]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

Supernatural to me means it is non-material, non-physical, non-measurable.
My view is we can't know with any certainty anything about the supernatural. So no theory or belief about something that is supernatural can be tested or verified. It's all feelings and intuition.

I remember being in an auditorium once and the speaker asked everyone to close their eyes and point to the north. Then he asked us to open our eyes and we could see people pointing all over the place. People who felt they knew which direction was north. They didn't. Feelings/intuition, there really is no way to verify you are right about any of it. Though you occasionally may be right, be pointing in the right direction but that is more a matter of luck than knowledge.

So there is no knowledge about the supernatural. There are just people pointing in a direction they feel is right.

I see deities in the same way. There is no real knowledge there. Just a lot of people pointing in a direction they feel is right.

Me calling myself an atheist just means I'm not pretending to know anything about any God.

 

[Samael_Khan]

I think of myself as an 'agnostic'.



My atheism, such as it is, is the belief that none of the deities of the religions (Yahweh, Allah, Krishna, Vishnu and all the rest) actually name anything with any objective existence in its own right. I perceive them more like characters in fiction, human creations.

That being said, I also think of the reality around me as the greatest of mysteries at its core. I don't have a clue what the 'secret of the universe' is. I don't know how the universe originated, how it got the order that it seemingly displays, what its ultimate ground of being is, or any of that. I don't know why existence exists, why there is something rather than nothing.

I feel surrounded by mysteries at every moment. That's what's motivated my lifelong interest in philosophy.



Perhaps I can define' nature' for the purposes of this post at least as the space-time-matter realm that is knowable to the conventional senses (or their instrumental extensions) through causal interactions. In that case, 'supernatural' would refer to any kind of hypothetical entities that aren't knowable in that empirical way, entities that don't interact causally with us in such a way as to be knowable by our senses (or by instruments) and may not be part of the space-time-matter realm with which science concerns itself.

I'm fascinated by the problem cases that inhabit the fuzzy edges of the scientific worldview and upon which that worldview depends. There are numbers for instance, and mathematical structures. There are principles of logical inference. There are ideas, concepts and meanings. None of these are on the face of it physical entities. It isn't entirely clear what kind of being they have or even how we know about them.

I'm not an adherent of metaphysical naturalism, the belief that nothing can possibly exist but the natural elements, principles, and relations of the kind found in the natural sciences (most notably physics). Even if it was true, I don't know of any way that anyone could actually know it.

On the other hand, I tend towards methodological naturalism, since anything that's unknowable to a being like me don't really play any role in my thinking, since by definition I have no way of knowing about them. It's just that I can't justifiably dismiss the possibility that things are happening that beings like me currently know nothing about.

Put another way, I have no way of being certain that today's scientific worldview is coextensive with reality itself.

You have put into words that which I could not.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Define "supernatural."

Whatever definition you're comfortable with.

 

[QuestioningMind]

Do you as an atheist (and do you call yourself an atheist -personally-) because you don't believe in any thing and any one supernatural or -just- that you do not believe in any deities period?

I was wondering because I'm sure many atheists do believe in supernatural things and people (say deceased) or near death experiences and so forth and still not believe in deities.

By definition an atheist simply has no belief in any god or gods, thus it's quite possible for an atheist to believe in the supernatural. Personally for me the reason I have no belief in any god or gods is because I've never been presented with sufficient evidence to warrant any belief. The same holds true for the 'supernatural'... I've yet to see any convincing evidence that anything 'supernatural' actually exists beyond people's imaginations.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Supernatural to me means it is non-material, non-physical, non-measurable.
My view is we can't know with any certainty anything about the supernatural. So no theory or belief about something that is supernatural can be tested or verified. It's all feelings and intuition.

I remember being in an auditorium once and the speaker asked everyone to close their eyes and point to the north. Then he asked us to open our eyes and we could see people pointing all over the place. People who felt they knew which direction was north. They didn't. Feelings/intuition, there really is no way to verify you are right about any of it. Though you occasionally may be right, be pointing in the right direction but that is more a matter of luck than knowledge.

So there is no knowledge about the supernatural. There are just people pointing in a direction they feel is right.

I see deities in the same way. There is no real knowledge there. Just a lot of people pointing in a direction they feel is right.

Me calling myself an atheist just means I'm not pretending to know anything about any God.

Hmm. Thanks. I like the north-example.

The way I came to that conclusion was listening to how people talk about their experiences. In a christian church, to a muslim woman, a nichiren, hindu, buddhist, and a wiccan I met in person from one time or another. I didn't mention what I believed or anything like that. I did talk to them about their beliefs individually. After talking, I found they used practically the same words to describe distinct feelings or theology or examples of those feelings (some didn't want to tell their experiences to a stranger no less).

It wasn't the same source or anything but the same human tendency to feel mystics and express them in a way congruent to their worldview. It was kinda scary in one way and in another-with confirmation here on RF as well with christian, hindu, bahai (new one for me), and someone else probably, had and said the same pattern that I met with the people in person. Made me think that regardless who we are, traditions, mystics, so forth we all have the same human senses (i.e. we're not aliens). While of course I would not ever say it's the same source-but because we are human, the feelings are the same regardless.

Interesting analogy, though.

 

[ChristineM]

I'm atheist (really, i know, its hard to believe) and do not believe anything can exist outside the realm of nature.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I deny anything benevolent or supernatural is going on, thus no God.

I do believe in an intelligent natural source for all the intelligence in nature though.

I don't even want to be an atheist, but I am atheist just this way.

Thanks. I haven't heard of any atheists (only met two in person but religion isn't really on our minds) separate spiritual and deities. Most of the time it's all put together. Hm.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I call myself an atheist and don't believe in any supernatural creature or phenomenon.

Does no belief in supernatural phenomenon relate to why you're an atheists or do they have different reasons between each other?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

By definition an atheist simply has no belief in any god or gods, thus it's quite possible for an atheist to believe in the supernatural. Personally for me the reason I have no belief in any god or gods is because I've never been presented with sufficient evidence to warrant any belief. The same holds true for the 'supernatural'... I've yet to see any convincing evidence that anything 'supernatural' actually exists beyond people's imaginations.

What would you personally term supernatural that would be some "thing" that needs evidence to prove "it's" existence?

 

[Rational Agnostic]

I'm atheist (really, i know, its hard to believe) and do not believe anything can exist outside the realm of nature.

Here is a question: What is the "realm of nature" and if a god could be shown to exist, would you consider it to be part of nature or something outside of nature? How do we differentiate between things that are in nature and things outside of nature?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm atheist (really, i know, its hard to believe) and do not believe anything can exist outside the realm of nature.

Do the reasons relate to each other in why you don't believe in either?