Atheists and Agnostics

[Polymath257]

But as I said previously: "unlikely" (regardless to which degree) and "proven false" are two different things.

Proof exists in math and in alcohol. Don't expect it anywhere else.

 

[Augustus]

I ****ing hate this chart

It is the 2nd worst thing on the internet. Not only does it contain awful terms like gnostic atheist and gnostic theist, it's also pretty stupid.

Atheism and theism are about your belief/disbelief in gods, whether you are "100% certain" is pretty much irrelevant to the concepts.

If I was king, I'd order people who think it is good to make such aesthetically hideous collocations to highlight an irrelevant difference to be rounded up and put on a small, cold island where they have to watch Barney the dinosaur videos for 16 hours a day until they publicly apologise and admit their failings.

 

[Tiberius]

Which of those definitions did you have in mind?

• The first one wouldn't make sense in the context you used the term.
• The second refers to the Gnostics in a figurative sense.
• The third refers to the Gnostics in a literal sense.

The second one: possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.

A gnostic theist believes they have knowledge. An agnostic theist holds the position that they can't have absolute knowledge.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The second one: possessing knowledge, especially esoteric knowledge of spiritual matters.

A gnostic theist believes they have knowledge. An agnostic theist holds the position that they can't have absolute knowledge.

The only people who use the phrase "gnostic atheist" are a small subset of internet atheists. You're trying to force a change in language, but it's just not taking.

 

[Tiberius]

The only people who use the phrase "gnostic atheist" are a small subset of internet atheists. You're trying to force a change in language, but it's just not taking.

Language is always changing. In any case, stop quibbling over the words I am using and pay more attention to the MEANING of the words.

You don't like the word "gnostic" used in this sentence? Find. Please feel free to substitute the words Flugely and non-flugely.

A flugely atheist is a person who lacks a belief in God and also holds that they can KNOW that God does not exist.

A non-Flugely atheist lacks belief in God, but does not claim to know for certain.

Is that better?

Maybe now you can stop quibbling over wordplay and get to the point.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Language is always changing. In any case, stop quibbling over the words I am using and pay more attention to the MEANING of the words.

Oh, that has issues, too. For starters, why would an atheist who doesn't believe in any gods at all frame atheism in terms of their attitudes toward a single monotheistic god-concept?

You don't like the word "gnostic" used in this sentence? Find. Please feel free to substitute the words Flugely and non-flugely.

A flugely atheist is a person who lacks a belief in God and also holds that they can KNOW that God does not exist.

A non-Flugely atheist lacks belief in God, but does not claim to know for certain.

Is that better?

Why would I replace invented terms that you're trying to shoehorn into the language with new invented terms?

Maybe now you can stop quibbling over wordplay and get to the point.

Dude... this tangent is on you. I said that I didn't like something that you're doing, and you couldn't let that just sit.

 

[Tiberius]

Oh, that has issues, too. For starters, why would an atheist who doesn't believe in any gods at all frame atheism in terms of their attitudes toward a single monotheistic god-concept?

At what point did I say my position only applied to monotheistic god concepts?

Why would I replace invented terms that you're trying to shoehorn into the language with new invented terms?

Because you were whining about the previous terms and saying they already had meanings that you claimed meant they couldn't be applied in the way I was using them. So I came up with different words so your complaint WOULDN'T apply, and yet you're still complaining!

Dude... this tangent is on you. I said that I didn't like something that you're doing, and you couldn't let that just sit.

So your point was just to complain, was it?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

At what point did I say my position only applied to monotheistic god concepts?

The first time? The second sentence of your first post in the thread:

The scale goes from Atheist to Theist, where atheist is having no belief in God and theist is having a belief in God.

"God," not "gods," and "God" with a capital G, not the general "god."

Also the idea of a single scale with "theist" at one end and "atheist" at the other is incoherent with multiple gods.

Because you were whining about the previous terms and saying they already had meanings that you claimed meant they couldn't be applied in the way I was using them. So I came up with different words so your complaint WOULDN'T apply, and yet you're still complaining!

I never said that you can't use the term the way you are; I just pointed out the agenda behind it and that your usage isn't accepted - or even understood - beyond a narrow subset of internet atheists.

Every subculture has its jargon and shibboleths, so if you want to use terms that aren't widely understood, go right ahead... but assuming that the wider world will understand and agree with your subculture's special turns of phrase just shows a lack of self-awareness.

So your point was just to complain, was it?

Yes. I was venting.

Edit: and also making it known that the usage isn't universally accepted, even among atheists.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

The first time? The second sentence of your first post in the thread:


"God," not "gods," and "God" with a capital G, not the general "god."

Also the idea of a single scale with "theist" at one end and "atheist" at the other is incoherent with multiple gods.


I never said that you can't use the term the way you are; I just pointed out the agenda behind it and that your usage isn't accepted - or even understood - beyond a narrow subset of internet atheists.

Every subculture has its jargon and shibboleths, so if you want to use terms that aren't widely understood, go right ahead... but assuming that the wider world will understand and agree with the way your subculture's special turns of phrase just shows a lack of self-awareness.


Yes. I was venting.

Edit: and also making it known that the usage isn't universally accepted, even among atheists.

Yeah, well put.

 

[Tiberius]

The first time? The second sentence of your first post in the thread:


"God," not "gods," and "God" with a capital G, not the general "god."

Once again you resort to quibbling over wordplay instead of addressing the actual issue.

Also the idea of a single scale with "theist" at one end and "atheist" at the other is incoherent with multiple gods.

First of all, I don't see how. Perhaps you would be so kind as to explain it. After all, I'm referring simply to a matter of belief, and a person can have 0% belief, or 100% belief, and any number in between to indicate that they think it's likely to some degree. For example, 50% belief would be that they think that God's existence was an even toss up. 90% belief would be that they leaned very strongly towards God (or gods, don't play your silly games here) existing, but weren't completely there.

I never said that you can't use the term the way you are; I just pointed out the agenda behind it and that your usage isn't accepted - or even understood - beyond a narrow subset of internet atheists.

Nonetheless, I'm attempting to clearly communicate ideas by using certain words and establishing exactly what I mean by those words. So what's your complaint about? "Oh, other people in other circumstances don't use the words to mean the things that you are using them to mean, so you're wrong!"

Cry me a river.

Every subculture has its jargon and shibboleths, so if you want to use terms that aren't widely understood, go right ahead... but assuming that the wider world will understand and agree with your subculture's special turns of phrase just shows a lack of self-awareness.

You're right. I can't just expect the wider world will understand and agree with that particular turn of phrase. Perhaps it would help if I specified exactly what I meant by using those words?

Oh wait, that's exactly what I did.

Yes. I was venting.

And do you feel better now that you've had your little temper tantrum?

Edit: and also making it known that the usage isn't universally accepted, even among atheists.

Again, that's why I clarified exactly what I meant by those words.