Atheist Life is Worthless

[The Voice of Reason]

Ronald -

My first reaction to your post was "Of course this is still about the thread as you started it", but after reading the last page and a half, I'd have to admit - we strayed from the topic. That said, your original post is what sparked all of this, so, to that end, you did cause discourse related to the initial thread.

TVOR

 

[linwood]

your damn right havn't you even read the bible

Yes I have and you are correct, the Bible advocates slavery.
Not a very good moral compass I don`t think.

my body will be brought back to life
its going to happen in this world

I hate to be the one to break it to ya Chuck but, your body is going to rot..or burn but either way it won`t be in any shape to appreciate this physical afterlife you speak of.

the world is horrible just look at africa with the genocide going on there

Yes..thats horrible.
It`s odd that it`s religion causing that genocide.
Religion does alot of that..HEY!!..lets not wish for an afterlife, lets abolish religion!!
That`ll fix it.
My view of the world isn`t so horrible (Maybe because I`ve essentially insulated myself from all things religious) my children are growing and learning, trick or treating was a blast, chances are Bush will lose re-election.
The world looks pretty good this afternoon, damn good in fact.

the bible is Gods word its written much better then anything i could write.

Really?
How do you know?

I thought you got an A in logic?
I did

Use that knowledge in explaining to me how you know the Bible is the word of God.

 

[Trinity]

You have lobbied a rather heavy charge here, allow me to attempt it.

Yes I have and you are correct, the Bible advocates slavery.
Not a very good moral compass I don`t think.

the bible was written human beings, being inspired by God. Slavery was of such common practice it would have been inconceivable for someone to speak against it, and still get their message across.

Also, it was not the same slavery we learned about in history class. It was more of a reciprocal situation. People were paid, there was a commitment and relationship that existed. Our current notion of freedom is about 300-400 years old, and was only an idea until the last two centuries

It`s odd that it`s religion causing that genocide.

Lets not forget money. Wars and genocide may be in the name of religion, but often what is at the root is some financial gain.

My view of the world isn`t so horrible (Maybe because I`ve essentially insulated myself from all things religious) my children are growing and learning, trick or treating was a blast, chances are Bush will lose re-election.
The world looks pretty good this afternoon, damn good in fact.

it is good you know how to enjoy the finer things in life.

(bible is from God) Really?
How do you know?
Use that knowledge in explaining to me how you know the Bible is the word of God.

I am sure you have been inundated with all the teachings on why We believe the Bible comes from God. So lets look at it from a more reasonable point of view. The Bible contradicts most of what society teaches. If it were not from God, how could it still have such a profound effect on people and the world, considering most people have never read it? I throw it back to you my friend.

 

[linwood]

the bible was written human beings, being inspired by God. Slavery was of such common practice it would have been inconceivable for someone to speak against it, and still get their message across.

I understand that but I`m not implying the Bible was at fault for remaining nuetral on slavery.
I`m stating the Bible re-inforced slavery with it`s customs and laws.

In other words..I`m not askingt hat the Bible "Speak against" slavery.
I`m merely wondering why it "speaks FOR Slavery.

Also, it was not the same slavery we learned about in history class. It was more of a reciprocal situation. People were paid, there was a commitment and relationship that existed.

Rationalizing it doesn`t make it morally correct.

Lets not forget money. Wars and genocide may be in the name of religion, but often what is at the root is some financial gain.

I don`t see how Sudan or its leaders are profiting, as I don`t see how Liberia or Ruwanda or the Congo have profited.

But..yes often times money is the reason

The Bible contradicts most of what society teaches. If it were not from God, how could it still have such a profound effect on people and the world, considering most people have never read it? I throw it back to you my friend.

If someone has never read it then the Bible has not had any affect on him/her.
What someone told them about the Bible is what had the affect on them.
If you repeat a lie often enough not only will you begin to believe it but those who have had to hear you repeat it will begin to believe it.

What about the Koran?
Why has it had such a profound affect on a third of the worlds population when most have never read it?
It must be Gods word too..right?
Many of the suicide bombers in Isreal were illiterate.
Many died over scripture someone else read for them.

Scary huh?

 

[Mr Spinkles]

If it were not from God, how could it still have such a profound effect on people and the world, considering most people have never read it?

Because people pick and choose which parts to believe, and which parts to throw out. Now the question is, why do people think a book that supports immoral behavior in some parts is inspired by the Divine any more than other religious books? Heads up, the ball's back in your court.

 

[Trinity]

I understand that but I`m not implying the Bible was at fault for remaining nuetral on slavery.
I`m stating the Bible re-inforced slavery with it`s customs and laws.

In other words..I`m not askingt hat the Bible "Speak against" slavery.
I`m merely wondering why it "speaks FOR Slavery.

Rationalizing it doesn`t make it morally correct.

Rationalizing and understanding the situation are two different things.

I don`t see how Sudan or its leaders are profiting, as I don`t see how Liberia or Ruwanda or the Congo have profited.

But..yes often times money is the reason

I do not know enough about these particular situations to speak on them, and do not want to pretend like I do.

If someone has never read it then the Bible has not had any affect on him/her.
What someone told them about the Bible is what had the affect on them.
If you repeat a lie often enough not only will you begin to believe it but those who have had to hear you repeat it will begin to believe it.
What about the Koran?
Why has it had such a profound affect on a third of the worlds population when most have never read it?
It must be Gods word too..right?
Many of the suicide bombers in Isreal were illiterate.
Many died over scripture someone else read for them.

If the words have had an effect on them, then it is the Spirit at work in them. Is reading the only method of learning. Unfortunately the koran has been distort to these people. As referred to above, often enough these people will have their families taken care of after (and because of) their death.

 

[Trinity]

Now the question is, why do people think a book that supports immoral behavior in some parts is inspired by the Divine any more than other religious books?

This has to do with taking things out of context. When you take something out of its context, then anything can appear as you want it to.

As for the second part of your question, this comes from my (our) lived experience and faith. Just as with any other book, our gracious God gives us the opportunity to accept or reject Him at will.

 

[linwood]

If the words have had an effect on them, then it is the Spirit at work in them.
Is reading the only method of learning.

If they`ve not read the words then the words have had no affect on them, no "spirit" can work within them.
You must read the book to understand Gods word don`t you?
Otherwise people might use the Bible to distort its message to these people.

Unfortunately the koran has been distort to these people. As referred to above, often enough these people will have their families taken care of after (and because of) their death.

Yes..the koran has been distorted to these people because they didn`t use reading as the method for learning .

Do you not see the contradictions in your argument between the way you represent Christianity and the way you present Islam?

 

[linwood]

This has to do with taking things out of context. When you take something out of its context, then anything can appear as you want it to.

Do you mean the immoral behaviour arises from the word being taken out of context?

If taking the word out of context can cause the wrong conclusions why do you advocate anything other than reading for learning Gods word?

 

[Trinity]

If they`ve not read the words then the words have had no affect on them, no "spirit" can work within them.
You must read the book to understand Gods word don`t you?

no

Otherwise people might use the Bible to distort its message to these people.

this is a possibility

Do you not see the contradictions in your argument between the way you represent Christianity and the way you present Islam?

No, I do not see it. Last I checked, people were not using the Bible to encourage other to destroy buildings and instill physical fear.

When you see some do something good, does it not inspire you to do something good? When you see two people in love, do you not reminisce about your love. Messages can be sent, and can work, with out reading the Bible, although I do not recommend living in this state of dependence.

 

[Trinity]

Do you mean the immoral behaviour arises from the word being taken out of context?

If taking the word out of context can cause the wrong conclusions why do you advocate anything other than reading for learning Gods word?

I do not advocate this as the best method of learning. I am merely saying there is more than one way in which we learn. Otherwise, what did people do before the printing press?

 

[linwood]

No, I do not see it. Last I checked, people were not using the Bible to encourage other to destroy buildings and instill physical fear.

No?

George W. Bush
"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

Jimmy Swaggart
"I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry...And I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died."

Jerry Falwell
"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself."

Gary Potter, president of Catholics for Christian Political Action
"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."

Pat Robertson
"There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?"

Ann Coulter
"We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Rev Joseph Morecraft
"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."

Cal Thomas
"We are approaching a time when Christians, especially, may have to declare the social contract between Enlightenment rationalists and Biblical believers - which formed the basis of the constitution written at our nation's founding - null and void".


Randall Terry, Operation Rescue
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

Eric Rudolph..Christian Terrorist
Bombed Abortion Clinics
Olympics
Terry Nichols..Christian Terrorist
Bombed Murrah Building

Nuremberg Files Website.. Christian Terrorist organization

I could go on..and on.

I want to point out your obvious bias to you.

You claim that if people "Feel the spirit" of the Bibles words then reading it is not necessary.
However
You claim that those "Feel the spirit" of the Koran are doing so because the Koran was misinterpreted to them.

Yet..you do not explain why you use a different standard to judge the actions of one books followers as opposed to the standard you use to judge the other books followers.

The above examples of Christian terrorism and hatred do not reflect the entire Christian sect yet you judge the entire religion of Islam by the actions of a few Muslims.

Do you not see the bias?

 

[linwood]

Otherwise, what did people do before the printing press?

Well alot of times they learned by reading the writings of people, like, monks and stuff..y`know copying and re-copying the word of God by hand..over and over and over.
For ages and ages..different humans doing the job of a printing press.

Thats why most ancient writings are so respected, the infallability of the process.

 

[Faust]

I'm sorry but I do keep trying to make the point that I am atheist and I place a great amount of value on my life, and those in my life do also. It is of no consequence if someone else chooses not to.
Ronald, I do believe that I have tried to stay true to the original thread, but I have become involved with a secondary debate involving clarification of valuation with Chuck. If this is outside of the parameters you intended then I am indeed sorry.

 

[Faust]

Ronald,
Perhaps you would like to weigh in on this topic since it was your thread.
I personally believe that the value of a life lived, no matter what one believes, is only measurable by the one who is living it. However, I have been trying to deal gently with the idea that some people have that their personal beliefs allow them to assume the mantle of their deity and supersede this personal valuation. What is your opinion? I would like to know the intent of your thread from your point of view. Do you judge my life as worthless?
Do you judge the life of anyone else as worthless? And if so, how do you justify this?

 

[Trinity]

No?

George W. Bush
"God told me to strike at al Qaeda and I struck them, and then he instructed me to strike at Saddam [Hussein], which I did, and now I am determined to solve the problem in the Middle East. If you help me I will act, and if not, the elections will come and I will have to focus on them."

Jimmy Swaggart
"I've never seen a man in my life I wanted to marry...And I'm going to be blunt and plain: If one ever looks at me like that, I'm going to kill him and tell God he died."

Jerry Falwell
"We're fighting against humanism, we're fighting against liberalism ... we are fighting against all the systems of Satan that are destroying our nation today ... our battle is with Satan himself."

Gary Potter, president of Catholics for Christian Political Action
"When the Christian majority takes over this country, there will be no satanic churches, no more free distribution of pornography, no more talk of rights for homosexuals. After the Christian majority takes control, pluralism will be seen as immoral and evil and the state will not permit anybody the right to practice evil."

Pat Robertson
"There will never be world peace until God's house and God's people are given their rightful place of leadership at the top of the world. How can there be peace when drunkards, drug dealers, communists, atheists, New Age worshipers of Satan, secular humanists, oppressive dictators, greedy money changers, revolutionary assassins, adulterers, and homosexuals are on top?"

Ann Coulter
"We know who the homicidal maniacs are. They are the ones cheering and dancing right now. We should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity."

Rev Joseph Morecraft
"Nobody has the right to worship on this planet any other God than Jehovah. And therefore the state does not have the responsibility to defend anybody's pseudo-right to worship an idol."

Cal Thomas
"We are approaching a time when Christians, especially, may have to declare the social contract between Enlightenment rationalists and Biblical believers - which formed the basis of the constitution written at our nation's founding - null and void".


Randall Terry, Operation Rescue
"What this is coming down to is who runs the country. It's us against them. It's the good guys versus the bad guys. It's the God-fearing people against the pagans, and some of the pagans are going to church."

"I want you to just let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good... Our goal is a Christian nation. We have a biblical duty, we are called on by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want pluralism."

Eric Rudolph..Christian Terrorist
Bombed Abortion Clinics
Olympics
Terry Nichols..Christian Terrorist
Bombed Murrah Building

Nuremberg Files Website.. Christian Terrorist organization

I could go on..and on.

I want to point out your obvious bias to you.

You claim that if people "Feel the spirit" of the Bibles words then reading it is not necessary.
However
You claim that those "Feel the spirit" of the Koran are doing so because the Koran was misinterpreted to them.

Yet..you do not explain why you use a different standard to judge the actions of one books followers as opposed to the standard you use to judge the other books followers.

The above examples of Christian terrorism and hatred do not reflect the entire Christian sect yet you judge the entire religion of Islam by the actions of a few Muslims.

Do you not see the bias?

I am not splitting hairs, but this is one of the problems that martin luther created with his idea of sola scriptura. When he did this he left the bible up the interpretation of the individual reader, because the only meaning is the literal meaning... now. Catholic believe, that there are more levels to Scripture (Historical, Literal, Spiritual...) and if one is going to interpret the meaning for people he should have a sound, founded theological background. I can not defend the protestant abuse of the bible, but thank you for pointing out the need for the Catholic teaching on the subject.

 

[linwood]

I can not defend the protestant abuse of the bible, but thank you for pointing out the need for the Catholic teaching on the subject.

Thats a pretty arrogant statement.
Catholicism is inherently correct, it`s the rest of the world that is getting it wrong.
lol
Why don`t you admit that there may be Islamic sects like your protestants that may be giving all of Islam a bad name?
Why does it work to defend Christainity but not Islam?
Bias.

 

[Ronald]

Ronald,
Perhaps you would like to weigh in on this topic since it was your thread.
I personally believe that the value of a life lived, no matter what one believes, is only measurable by the one who is living it. However, I have been trying to deal gently with the idea that some people have that their personal beliefs allow them to assume the mantle of their deity and supersede this personal valuation. What is your opinion? I would like to know the intent of your thread from your point of view. Do you judge my life as worthless?
Do you judge the life of anyone else as worthless? And if so, how do you justify this?

Sorry Faust,:banghead3
This is Linwoods thread, I posted to it, on page 3, because an Atheist's life is not worthless, unless the Atheist has done nothing worthwhile, many people fit both characteristics, but the thread said Atheist Life is Worthless a blanket statement, I dissagreed with.
I believe Linwood is posting often. :tsk:

 

[Trinity]

Thats a pretty arrogant statement.
Catholicism is inherently correct, it`s the rest of the world that is getting it wrong.
lol
Why don`t you admit that there may be Islamic sects like your protestants that may be giving all of Islam a bad name?
Why does it work to defend Christainity but not Islam?
Bias.

Scream bias all you want but that is exactly what is going on. Militant groups distort the Koran and give the other 98% of Muslims a bad name. I just want to know why do you take such umbridge with Catholics?

 

[linwood]

Scream bias all you want but that is exactly what is going on. Militant groups distort the Koran and give the other 98% of Muslims a bad name.

Yes and your previous posting shows that you happily buy into the falsity of blaming all those Muslims.
The really bad part is the fact that you just admitted it is unfair yet you still do it!!!!

I just want to know why do you take such umbridge with Catholics?

I`m explaining that in the "Why does everyone bash the Catholics?" thread.

However I can tell you it is partly the fact that Catholics can complain about the unfair bashing of their religion in the same post they use to bash another religion WHILE they admit knowing that their bashing is unfair.

Can you not see the madness in that position?
:areyoucra