I'm laughing right along with you, Pah. :biglaugh:pah said:
Pardon me if seem to be chuckling. :biglaugh:
-pah-
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I'm laughing right along with you, Pah. :biglaugh:pah said:
Pardon me if seem to be chuckling. :biglaugh:
-pah-
Chuck -chuck010342 said:yes if you don't follow God your not good
Very good. In fact - excellent!Faust said:I believe the original intent of this thread was a matter of the value of a life lived without the promise of an "afterlife". I can only reply that I value my life greatly. ... I believe that I can surmise that you however do not value my life if I do not conform to your values. This does not in any way take away from my personal experience.
yeah most of them, they are called christianshuajiro said:It kills me how simple things are and people still find a way to distort them. Most of us know right from wrong.
Oh so the holocoust was just a bunch of people going along with what the leader said and there was no genocide. You have got to be kidding me, if they didn't really believe it then why would it of happened.huajiro said:You cannot misinterpret "goodness" if you have a conscience. I don't think that one single Nazi deep down in his heart thought that what he was doing was really the "right" thing.
then society has some problems too.huajiro said:Just as someone working at a slaughterhouse would need therapy from all the death around him, because he can't feel it is "right", even though society loves to promote it. A little child pulling the wings off a fly has to know it is wrong.
what do you think Chrisitans are trying to do?huajiro said:If they don't know it is wrong, then we need to do whatever we have to make sure that they understand the true meaning of "goodness".:banghead3
your rightFaust said:When expressed in this context, "worth" is based soley on a perceived "afterlife"
well thats a problemFaust said:but an atheist doesn't believe in an afterlife.
I agree with all you sayFaust said:Value therefore becomes a matter of the here and now. Since this forum allows me a certain anonymity I feel I may dispense with being humble to a degree. When I see someone in need, I do not question whether or not they believe the same way I do, I simply respond to the degree I am capable of. I believe I have added value to the lives of those I have helped. I also believe that my loved ones value my existence. I don't care what anyone believes, I don't believe they have a right to judge the value of my life.
if you have been close to death God is trying to warn you. Any and all life is not invaluable God said so. The point of my orginal thread was to show that anybody who doesn't not follow Jesus will die one day so whatever they do on this earth is pretty pointless because all of the good things you did will not last forever. You are correct in saying you should live your life and add value to it and help those in need. God said to do all these things. There is a reward in the next life if you do all things God wants you to do.Faust said:As far as fear of death goes, I have heard certain people make statements such as "you won't find any atheists in the critical ward" and "you won't find any atheists on death row". These are totaly unqualified assertions. I have personally been close to death and haven't felt the need to make any last minute conversions. I simply am not dominated by a fear of death as a prime motivator in my contemplation of life and death and how I should interact with those I share this life with.I simply put my best foot foward as far as I am capable and do the best I can to live a life that I can value and that can add value to the lives of those I am privileged to share it with.
I said nothing of heaven.Ceridwen018 said:This brings up an interesting idea, Chuck. Even if there is a resurrection, what would be the point of learning things, having children, etc, be in relation to it? In heaven, are the people who have learned the most on earth or had the most children held in higher regard?
God grants a ressurection for those who believe in Jesus not those who do good deeds. It doesn't grant me to commit suicide but it does provide an excellent reason to die for my faithCeridwen018 said:Unless you believe that god grants favor from a person's deeds, (which is an idea contrary to the bible), good works done by yourself are done just as in vain as mine. If anything, Chuck, your belief in an afterlife should logically motivate you to commit suicide, or at least allow your body to deteriorate faster in order to die sooner and therefore reach heaven. To sum up, what is the point of living and/or succeeding on earth if you believe in an afterlife or resurrection?
God said not to do those things. They are also unhealthy. God wants you to be healthy thats why he said not to do those things. You see the connection?Ceridwen018 said:Why do I not smoke, drink, incinerate, rob, lie, murder, listen to Marilyn Manson, or have orgies? Plainly put, all of those things are both physically and (at times) mentally unhealthy. Why do I read books, run, eat fruits and veggies, study hard, and be nice to people? Plainly put, because all of these things ARE physically and mentally healthy. In fact, this is how the stereotype of 'good' and 'bad' is attached to material (and immaterial for that matter) things--whether or not they are detrimental to person or society. For instance, if smoking reduced the risk of cancer by 87%, it would be considered a 'good' thing.
yeah for you it is but the believes get plenty of chances to be forgiven and to live foreverCeridwen018 said:Because I don't believe in an afterlife, Chuck, I believe that this time and this body is all I've got. I've only got one chance, and If I mess up, its all over.
wow an absolutist statement I thought they all died off long ago.Ceridwen018 said:Thats why I am motivated to do healthy things. If I do unhealthy things, I will be stuck with an unhealthy body and mind until I finally reach my miserable end. On the other hand, if I prescribe to healthy things, I will retain my healthy body and mind as nature allows. Not only that, but I will also be improving my chances of living longer than I would otherwise, thereby extending my solitary temporal window. The old wisdom which states that bad things, although they may bring immediate gratification, conjur pain and suffering in the long term, whereas good things, although they may require more work, present lasting happiness, is absolutely true.
no you don't but you need God in order to be forgiven so you can live forever.Ceridwen018 said:You don't need God, Jesus, or Ghandi to say it for it to be true
some people are wrong in there believesCeridwen018 said:. You know, some people think that god condones war. Are Jihads, therefore, good?
hmmm really Matthew 23:15 ring any bells????Trinity said:Not for nothing, but I never heard Jesus say anyone was bad, except the devil.
they are not my values they are God's valuesFaust said:Chuck,
I believe the original intent of this thread was a matter of the value of a life lived without the promise of an "afterlife".
I can only reply that I value my life greatly. This life that I am experiencing right now.
I believe that I can surmise that you however do not value my life if I do not conform to your values.
These values are not my own. Like Jesus said "my teaching is not my own but him who sent me"Faust said:This does not in any way take away from my personal experience.
From your perspective, you have appointed yourself as the arbiter of value concerning "my" existence based on your value system. I find this a little arrogant. And as long as I find fulfillment, and those whom I personally touch in this world are enriched by my existence, I don't think your judgemental attitude towards anyone else is of any value or importance to anyone other than yourself. I might even add"how do you justify" judging anyone based on your narrow interpretation of value, when it is soley based on your personal feelings. Yes I know that you will say that you are innocent and that it is God who will do the judging thereby assuming a victim status, I'm only the messenger, but it is "your" judgement based on your beliefs and you do not have the right to devalue my, or anyone elses life based on "your" personal practices or beliefs.
Yes, Chuck, some are. There are even some people that think that only they (in their belief system) are right. Hold on tight, cause this is really gonna make your head spin, but some people actually believe that they know what God thinks. I know what you're gonna say - who are these people that are so easily deceived? Well....chuck010342 said:some people are wrong in there believes
chuck010342 said:they are not my values they are God's values
These values are not my own. Like Jesus said "my teaching is not my own but him who sent me"
your wrong what I'm gonna say is those people are wrong in there believe system.The Voice of Reason said:Yes, Chuck, some are. There are even some people that think that only they (in their belief system) are right. Hold on tight, cause this is really gonna make your head spin, but some people actually believe that they know what God thinks. I know what you're gonna say - who are these people that are so easily deceived? Well....
I'm not going to respond because my statements are not inconsistant.The Voice of Reason said:PS - I don't suppose you'd like to respond to my post, pointing out the inconsistentcies in your statements about a closed mind and other people being wrong in their beliefs?
Sunstone said:How do you know your interpretation of God's values is the right interpretation?
Chuck,chuck010342 said:your wrong what I'm gonna say is those people are wrong in there believe system.
I don't think I can point it out to you any more plainly. You say that you are not close-minded, yet you do not allow others to have differing opinions. Perhaps I gave you bad advice earlier. If it is not the course in logic that is failing you, then you might want to ask for a refund from whatever institution taught you English and the use of words.chuck010342 said:I'm not going to respond because my statements are not inconsistant.
a messenger? now way I'm not even worthy enough to be called that I'm a slave if anything.Faust said:As I said Chuck, you revert to "I am only the messenger".
your right it is not in my court. God will judge you. I'm simply telling you what God already has told you. I believe that your life has value because God choose you to exsist.Faust said:But this is the message of your belief system. If you choose not to believe that my life has value based on your system of belief then that is alright. But you miss my point. I don't think the measurement of the value is in your court, it is my valuation that matters here.
actually its based on eternal lifeFaust said:I could say that in my opinion, your life has no value because it is based on death.
I think that we believe in the same reality but I believe that this world is horrible and one day it will not be.Faust said:And in my system of belief, there is nothing to experience after this life, but, and this is a big "but" it is not my place to decide the value of your existence.Yes I know that you will again be tempted to tell me that it is God who has the final say in this matter, and I say if you talk to or with God then he is real for you, I can not dispute this, "this is your reality". Who am I to dispute your reality based on my reality? I do not believe Chuck, that we are so different,I just believe that we have separate concepts of reality.
the point of my posts is to tell you what God already did. Anybody reading these posts could read a bible instead. The bible is a MUCH better teacher then meFaust said:I know Chuck that your posts are designed to win people over to "The Lord" and I must commend you for this concern for others, but the object of this thread is the value of life, and that is subjective in my reality. It is not in yours.
I believe I respondid to this in another postFaust said:Just let me say in closing that I can not conceive of a loving, caring creator who would give the tool of logic, endow me with free choice, and then punish me for exorcizing those gifts.
your damn right its your choice. You can do whatever you want God gave you free choice. Whether it is a good choice or not is open to debate.Faust said:You can. But the choice is mine, the valuation is mine based on my personal experience. So far, I'm lovin it, and the near death thing doesn't seem like a warning to me. It has only served to give me a deeper appreciatin of this opportunity we call life.
Peace,
Faust