chuck010342
Active Member
my version can be questioned yes absolutly I do NOT have a blind faith. it is the correct way to view life. they are wrong yes.The Voice of Reason said:
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Atheist Life is Worthless
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chuck010342
Active Member
no true scotsman fallacy I never heard of that. What is that argument all about?pah said:
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Your reply is self contradictory. If "they" are wrong, and your's is the correct way to view life, then your version would appear to be above reproach. Help me to understand how you do NOT have blind faith, but you can know that the other views of God are wrong.chuck010342 said:
TVOR
It kills me how simple things are and people still find a way to distort them. Most of us know right from wrong. You cannot misinterpret "goodness" if you have a conscience. I don't think that one single Nazi deep down in his heart thought that what he was doing was really the "right" thing. Just as someone working at a slaughterhouse would need therapy from all the death around him, because he can't feel it is "right", even though society loves to promote it. A little child pulling the wings off a fly has to know it is wrong.chuck010342 said:
If they don't know it is wrong, then we need to do whatever we have to make sure that they understand the true meaning of "goodness".:banghead3
Faust
Active Member
Quote: (Originally Posted by chuck010342)aren't you all going to die anyway? If there is no resurrection then why bother to learn anything? for that matter why have kids? why even get a job or do anything helpful because its all in vain? Think about it if there is no resurrection then why bother to exsists. Live Drink and be marry have orgies all the time get drunk for tomorrow we die
When expressed in this context, "worth" is based soley on a perceived "afterlife",but an atheist doesn't believe in an afterlife. Value therefore becomes a matter of the here and now. Since this forum allows me a certain anonymity I feel I may dispense with being humble to a degree. When I see someone in need, I do not question whether or not they believe the same way I do, I simply respond to the degree I am capable of. I believe I have added value to the lives of those I have helped. I also believe that my loved ones value my existence. I don't care what anyone believes, I don't believe they have a right to judge the value of my life. As far as fear of death goes, I have heard certain people make statements such as "you won't find any atheists in the critical ward" and "you won't find any atheists on death row". These are totaly unqualified assertions. I have personally been close to death and haven't felt the need to make any last minute conversions. I simply am not dominated by a fear of death as a prime motivator in my contemplation of life and death and how I should interact with those I share this life with.I simply put my best foot foward as far as I am capable and do the best I can to live a life that I can value and that can add value to the lives of those I am privileged to share it with.
Trinity
Member
huajiro said:
It sounds like you have a good conscience and I would like to thank whoever helped to raise you for that, for another good person in the world. However, not everyone does. Many people have been hurt by life, by different things that have happened to them in life and grow cold or hard to peoples feelings around them. There used to be an old saying, it takes the village to raise the child, this doesn't seem to apply in the US anymore. We spend our time figuring out how to maximize profits and attain personal satisfaction, rather than instilling good values in our children.
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
This brings up an interesting idea, Chuck. Even if there is a resurrection, what would be the point of learning things, having children, etc, be in relation to it? In heaven, are the people who have learned the most on earth or had the most children held in higher regard? Unless you believe that god grants favor from a person's deeds, (which is an idea contrary to the bible), good works done by yourself are done just as in vain as mine. If anything, Chuck, your belief in an afterlife should logically motivate you to commit suicide, or at least allow your body to deteriorate faster in order to die sooner and therefore reach heaven. To sum up, what is the point of living and/or succeeding on earth if you believe in an afterlife or resurrection?
Why do I not smoke, drink, incinerate, rob, lie, murder, listen to Marilyn Manson, or have orgies? Plainly put, all of those things are both physically and (at times) mentally unhealthy. Why do I read books, run, eat fruits and veggies, study hard, and be nice to people? Plainly put, because all of these things ARE physically and mentally healthy. In fact, this is how the stereotype of 'good' and 'bad' is attached to material (and immaterial for that matter) things--whether or not they are detrimental to person or society. For instance, if smoking reduced the risk of cancer by 87%, it would be considered a 'good' thing.
Because I don't believe in an afterlife, Chuck, I believe that this time and this body is all I've got. I've only got one chance, and If I mess up, its all over. Thats why I am motivated to do healthy things. If I do unhealthy things, I will be stuck with an unhealthy body and mind until I finally reach my miserable end. On the other hand, if I prescribe to healthy things, I will retain my healthy body and mind as nature allows. Not only that, but I will also be improving my chances of living longer than I would otherwise, thereby extending my solitary temporal window.
The old wisdom which states that bad things, although they may bring immediate gratification, conjur pain and suffering in the long term, whereas good things, although they may require more work, present lasting happiness, is absolutely true. You don't need God, Jesus, or Ghandi to say it for it to be true--it can be logically observed by anyone. That is why I don't base my life on immediate gratification, but rather, I look to the long term and decide what I need to do to make my life, as a whole, be the best it can be. Why do I want to lead a good life if I'm not officially rewarded in the end? I tell you, I find reward in every day.
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Huajiro -huajiro said:
This has been discussed "ad nauseum" in other threads. Let me try to be concise in saying that, even though we all wish that what you say were true, unfortunately, it is not so. Even though Chuck chose to use the Nazis for his example, he is not far off the mark. The truth is that "goodness", "right", and "wrong" are all very subjective, and highly dependent upon ones culture, age and era lived in, among other things.
What you and I consider to be clearly "wrong" is totally accepted in other societies and cultures. Two easy examples would be our consumption of beef where a Hindu would consider that abhorent behaviour, or the thought (that still exists in many countries) that bathing more than once a week is unhealthy - which we would consider almost repulsive.
Thanks,
TVOR
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
Alas, Faust - women just don't seem to appreciate the drunken orgy as much as they should.
What is to become of the drunken orgy if the atheists and agnostics don't stand up for it? :bonk:
Thank God for the Christians, for we all know that they do not participate in (or condone) these traps.
As my good friend Pah would say - "No true Scotsman would!"
TVOR
What is to become of the drunken orgy if the atheists and agnostics don't stand up for it? :bonk:
Thank God for the Christians, for we all know that they do not participate in (or condone) these traps.
As my good friend Pah would say - "No true Scotsman would!"
TVOR
chuck010342
Active Member
yes "they" are wrong but that doesn't not mean that I have a closed mind. Other views are incorrect but other people can ask me why they are wrong and I will give them answers.The Voice of Reason said:
chuck010342
Active Member
yes if you don't follow God your not goodpah said:
The Voice of Reason
Doctor of Thinkology
From this thread:
From the thread "A Letter to the Atheists":
I would submit that you might want to contact the administration at Bob Jones University and ask for a refund (at least for that semester). Someone lied to you.
TVOR
These three statements are beyond logic - even Lewis Carroll himself couldn't defend this. I would say that Aristotle is cringing - wherever he is buried.chuck010342 said:
From the thread "A Letter to the Atheists":
chuck010342 said:
I would submit that you might want to contact the administration at Bob Jones University and ask for a refund (at least for that semester). Someone lied to you.
TVOR
Ceridwen018
Well-Known Member
So basically for you, good and evil are not defined on societal standards, etc., but rather god condones it. Interesting. You know, some people think that god condones war. Are Jihads, therefore, good?
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