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Atheist intolerance?

Me Myself

Back to my username
The people who threaten her, that's what I expected. That's how I expected most people to react. That's why I didn't see her actions as a good idea.

Maybe she saw it too and acted in conviction.

It is in conviction also to denounce the behaviour they are having in response to her.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
I can't tell whether you are being serious or playing devil's advocate.

A little bit seriously playing devil's advocate.

Actually, I thought that was actually one of the problems with the original banner: It makes those virtues something that God has to give you, rather than something you need to cultivate on your own.

Ok, why should I accept these things should be cultivated? You assume, maybe, this is a given for everyone. I don't think it is.

If motivation is needed, then society itself should reinforce them: You'll go further and likely have a happier life if you are a kind person, attend to your studies, develop friendships, etc. And nobody likes sore losers or sore winners, and many sports have rules against poor sportsmanship. How's that not motivation?

Says who? How do you know I won't be happier being rich and powerful and feared? I get what I want, people do what I say. Same results, doesn't matter whether people like me or not.

And if you are of the religious bent, and feel that God's blessing and aid is necessary for you to obtain those things, then nobody is stopping you from praying for them yourself.

Not everybody in the world has good intentions. A lot of people can be downright nasty and evil. And, why shouldn't they be? If they are smart enough to get away with it.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
A little bit seriously playing devil's advocate.



Ok, why should I accept these things should be cultivated? You assume, maybe, this is a given for everyone. I don't think it is.



Says who? How do you know I won't be happier being rich and powerful and feared? I get what I want, people do what I say. Same results, doesn't matter whether people like me or not.



Not everybody in the world has good intentions. A lot of people can be downright nasty and evil. And, why shouldn't they be? If they are smart enough to get away with it.

All of this things are for the parents to take care of, not the school

School must promote good values to a point, but not meddling them with religion. If the parents are unable to teach their kid to be a good person, they may be bad parents or the kid a sociopath
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
Not everyone sees cowardice as a good idea either.

Different strokes I suppose.

What, cowardice? Where'd that come from.

Well ok yes cowardice in the right circumstances can be useful as a means to manipulate people. However I don't really see where cowardice is fitting in with her story here.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
All of this things are for the parents to take care of, not the school

School must promote good values to a point, but not meddling them with religion. If the parents are unable to teach their kid to be a good person, they may be bad parents or the kid a sociopath

So you'll leave them at the mercy of bad parents to cultivate morals values?

IDK it might work out. However if these parents were educated in the same system where would their moral values have come from?

So you saying leave the morality to the parents even though there's no guarantee it's going to be beneficial. I don't know if it is the best way but it's how our society has set it up.

Yeah, not giving people something to believe in. I don't know if that is good or bad. I suspect bad for society at large. But, you know opinions vary.

I suppose my point is I don't know that people will develop good morals if left to themselves. In fact I suspect that most people, if left to themselves will develop "bad" morals. If religion keeps a lot of those individuals in check, I'm not so much in a hurry to eradicate it from our public institutions.
 

cablescavenger

Well-Known Member
Atheism becomes like a religion when they try to force their idealism on others.

What is the atheist idealism then?

Most atheists I know have no intention of converting anyone, so perhaps you can provide examples of how this forcing of ideals is done?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
So you'll leave them at the mercy of bad parents to cultivate morals values?

IDK it might work out. However if these parents were educated in the same system where would their moral values have come from?

So you saying leave the morality to the parents even though there's no guarantee it's going to be beneficial.

Well, the christian prayer definetely did nothing good for the "christians" that are making the life of that poor girl a living hell, so I would say that to put "God given" morality in a pedestal of "only way" for mroality to truly work is one of the worst things one can do as a society, it lads to fanatism and moral stupidity. Also:

[youtube]VdtwTeBPYQA[/youtube]
'Atheist' Nations Are More Peaceful - YouTube



I suppose my point is I don't know that people will develop good morals if left to themselves. In fact I suspect that most people, if left to themselves will develop "bad" morals. If religion keeps a lot of those individuals in check, I'm not so much in a hurry to eradicate it from our public institutions.

Then don´t lave them to themselves. Make the schools teach but from a secular point of view. It seems to have worked for those countries.
 
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Kilgore Trout

Misanthropic Humanist
What, cowardice? Where'd that come from.

Well ok yes cowardice in the right circumstances can be useful as a means to manipulate people. However I don't really see where cowardice is fitting in with her story here.

Not doing something that you feel is right because you're scared of people threatening you. That cowardice.

You seem to think that her acting cowardly by not standing up and saying something would have been a better idea. Not everyone thinks cowardice is a good idea.
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Not doing something that you feel is right because you're scared of people threatening you. That cowardice.

You seem to think that her acting cowardly by not standing up and saying something would have been a better idea. Not everyone thinks cowardice is a good idea.

Specially not in this case.

She is a hero.
 

9Westy9

Sceptic, Libertarian, Egalitarian
Premium Member
It doesn't matter if the quote came from scripture. America used to be decidedly Christian. Kudos to the school for trying to preserve their traditions. Shame on the woefully miguided atheist student, and extra shame on those who reportedly threatened violence.

Why shame on the atheist? She just did what she felt right. If you were the only Christian in a school with a banner implying there is no god would you be happy with that?
 

Me Myself

Back to my username
Doesn't provide a reason to make it worse.



To what benefit? What harm is cause by a prayer banner on the wall of a public school?

It harms morality.

People think the only way to be moral is with a God "father".

It alse damages the taxpaying dolars of the atheists that are financing the school and don´t want their kids indoctrinated.

It would also harm the tax paying dollars of anyone with a religion that negates a God Father.


The damage done to the morality of the kids is made obvious with the way they gt so immoral when they have their banner taken out. They don´t know how to be moral without "God", so its a cardboard morality.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
It harms morality.

Ok, well I can only disagree here.

People think the only way to be moral is with a God "father".

And why should it bother those that don't?

It alse damages the taxpaying dolars of the atheists that are financing the school and don´t want their kids indoctrinated.

It would also harm the tax paying dollars of anyone with a religion that negates a God Father.

I suspect there are many more important things to worry about with regard to what is happening to our taxpayer dollars than whether some school in RI has a prayer banner on it's wall.

Of course you are free to to express the horrific harm this causes you or causes some other individual. I still don't see it. I mean so what. If they left it up another 100 years, is it going to destroy the country or something?

The damage done to the morality of the kids is made obvious with the way they gt so immoral when they have their banner taken out. They don´t know how to be moral without "God", so its a cardboard morality.

While I agree they may not know how to be moral without God but then I certainly don't what to be taking God away from them. This seems the more harmful an action in that case.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
I guess I find people so predictable that I take full responsibility for how they react to me. If I spat in someone's face and they hit me, I would blame myself.
Do you really think that Jessica Ahlquist's actions here are analogous to spitting in someone's face?
 

Trey of Diamonds

Well-Known Member
Forest Service to Jesus: You can stay - for now

The latest decision renews a 10-year special-use permit for the Knights of Columbus Council, members of which placed the statue there.

"I understand the statue has been a long-standing object in the community since 1955, and I recognize that the statue is important to the community for its historical heritage based on its association with the early development of the ski area on Big Mountain," Weber said.

The Freedom From Religion Foundation, which argues the religious statue does not belong on public land, said it anticipated the agency's reversal. It argues that the Forest Service was breaching separation of church and state rules by leasing the small patch of land for the Jesus statue.

"We have no objection to shrines like these on private property. That is where they belong," said Annie Laurie Gaylor, FFRF co-president. "I think it will be very easy to show that this special permit is a sham."
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Actually Ghost of a Rider brought that analogy in to play so ask him. I was just responding to something he said.
One would think that when a person uses an analogy, they have some meaning behind it. Odd that you didn't.

I get the impression that you're in this thread just to be argumentative and aren't actually trying to put forward any coherent position.
 
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