• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Atheism vs Theism

Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Joe W said:
Don't hold me to standards that you are not willing to hold yourself. :thumbsup:
Click to expand...
I am not holding you to any standards. Where did you get that idea?

I said: "Nobody can demonstrate that God exists to anyone except themselves."
I have demonstrated that God exists to myself.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
columbus said:
God can.

You do all kinds of mental gymnastics explaining why He doesn't. But the fact remains, doing so isn't beyond the ability of Almighty God.

I find the most plausible explanation for that is There is no God who cares about us.
Tom
Click to expand...
Yes, God can and God does, but not to everyone, because everyone is not worthy of such a demonstration,
nor does everyone want to believe in God...

“Whoso maketh efforts for Us,” he shall enjoy the blessings conferred by the words: “In Our Ways shall We assuredly guide him.”” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 266-267
 
R

rational experiences

Veteran Member
As a child, I wondered at why adults claiming self spiritual in religious orders/groups did such evil crimes of harm against other humans. One of my own human aware realisations.

When I was told that God punished the evil doers, I looked at life and thought, not likely. Only some evil doers get punished the rest succeed in the harm of life, the cruelty and his story owns this realisation.

Therefore I knew that humans claiming a human was evil versus a human was good owned a thinking problem. For we are all just humans being human, making good or bad choices. Then I realised phenomena was real, after witnessing it.

So I then wondered, if phenomena exists, how did it get formed if the theme of God being good as a spirit were real. For God would not own the forming of evil spirits for it would be a contradiction to good.

And if only good existed, then why did destruction and removal exist?

Therefore I taught my own self not to believe in coercive group reasoning, for there was always a human group motivating purpose that belonged to teachings and controls. And even read where a male life who quotes such evil sacrifices to his life body, with the claim he was born an Immaculate baby (night time birth) who died at the age of a man 33 years when C in literature was given an evaluated life span of a human 100 years.

Most of us do not make 100 year life span. A few live past that 100 years.

I pondered what was good about a life being sacrificed. Others claimed, because it saved us all. So I pondered that statement also. And asked myself, if a human sacrificed cruelly and bodily saved us, what would be involved. And became advised about how ground water evaporation that was being used as a percentile of keeping cellular water based life such as a bio existence alive, was removed.

And a portion of it in a huge evaporated mass flew off into the heavens. So humans and animals and Nature died because of it. So their death saved our life, the cells still living, the DNA still existing, the health enabled to exist. As new cloud amassing occurred to cool the burning/radiating fall out gases. Made sense actually as to how death/sacrifice of life living as a higher percentile of water, on the ground saved us.

And then said to myself what an evil story. As a human I would not want such conditions to occur to my life. Yet I looked at my human brothers and sisters and saw them in their personal torment and knew it was not finished, the sacrifice of life had not ended. We all were still being punished.

Then I considered what was so evil in human life for us to still be punished. And occult nuclear science, activating spatial heating by removal of fused radiation mass out of the first one body that science named the stone as being. An entity, a Creator, a body of stone, the first and one. And concluded, God was never evil, science and human scientists by want are. The conjurers of phenomena cause.

Not natural, not known, not understood, seen/witnessed, attacks, not meant to occur for it is not natural. And all of the information then made common sense.

When you preach relativity in male/man/human and men life as the science inventor theists, then you preached that God O the sealed fused Earth did no evil....did not own conjuring. Human occult scientists did. And humans chose acts of evil......for humans are not God, the stone and so we are not evil either.

Common sense, basic thoughts, not coerced thoughts are simplified states of human awareness if anyone cared to use self thinking instead of being book coerced.
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
alsome said:
@columbus ,
So all the departed spirits are gone forever, and and and, there is no santa?
Click to expand...
No.

Personally, I prefer to believe that our spirit is a tiny part of God. When separated from our meat, death, it just returns to God. Like a raindrop returning to the sea. It doesn't cease to exist, it just merges back into the vastness it came from.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not claiming this is objectively true. I'm hard core agnostic. But it works for me. YMMV

And yes, I totally believe in Santa.

Not as a pudgy dude in red, living in the Arctic, delivering gifts to the children of well-to-do parents. Rather, the personification of the spirit of comraderery and generosity when the reality is cold and dark. That Santa I totally believe in.
Tom
 
C

columbus

yawn <ignore> yawn
Trailblazer said:
Yes, God can and God does, but not to everyone, because everyone is not worthy of such a demonstration,
Click to expand...
Baha'i is definitely better than most Abrahamic religions. But it's still got that exclusivity thing going on.
Some people just aren't good enough for God.

Evidence enough for me that Bahai is human fiction.

Trailblazer said:
nor does everyone want to believe in God...
Click to expand...
Anyone who doesn't want to believe in the reality is mentally ill.
It happens a lot. Humans really are very prone to mental illnesses. I'd argue we're born that way(Thanks God!:rolleyes:). It's a matter of degree. Everyone is born ignorant, stupid, and prone to delusion.

Some of us improve more than others. But we're all that way. And we always will be as long as there's no Almighty God who cares enough to inform us better or make us better able to learn.
Tom
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
In other words, why would a loving God communicate directly with atheists, or with anyone, except His Chosen Ones, like Moses and Jesus?
Click to expand...
She would do so if she wants people to know that she exists. Or if they want to communicate a clear, direct and unambiguous message to each individual. Or if he is just feeling chatty.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Joe W said:
She would do so if she wants people to know that she exists. Or if they want to communicate a clear, direct and unambiguous message to each individual. Or if he is just feeling chatty.
Click to expand...
Dream on... It would not make one iota of difference if God communicated directly to everyone because nobody except God's Messengers could ever understand communication from God since only they have that capacity.

Baha'u'llah wrote that if God had pleased God could have made everyone into believers by some method, but that method would not be direct communication. :rolleyes:

“He Who is the Day Spring of Truth is, no doubt, fully capable of rescuing from such remoteness wayward souls and of causing them to draw nigh unto His court and attain His Presence. “If God had pleased He had surely made all men one people.” His purpose, however, is to enable the pure in spirit and the detached in heart to ascend, by virtue of their own innate powers, unto the shores of the Most Great Ocean, that thereby they who seek the Beauty of the All-Glorious may be distinguished and separated from the wayward and perverse. Thus hath it been ordained by the all-glorious and resplendent Pen…”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 71
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
Dream on... It would not make one iota of difference if God communicated directly to everyone because nobody except God's Messengers could ever understand communication from God since only they have that capacity.
Click to expand...
You forget that God is purported to be omnipotent. Which means that he has the capacity to make himself understood by anyone. An omnipotent being is not limited by anything. Not even the limited capacities of humans. Omnipotence, baby. Quit trying to limit it.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Joe W said:
You forget that God is purported to be omnipotent. Which means that he has the capacity to make himself understood by anyone.
Click to expand...
Only if He chooses to. That is how omnipotence works.

“Say: O people! Let not this life and its deceits deceive you, for the world and all that is therein is held firmly in the grasp of His Will. He bestoweth His favor on whom He willeth, and from whom He willeth He taketh it away. He doth whatsoever He chooseth.” Gleanings, p. 209

I guess He does not choose to, so tough luck for atheists who expect God to hop to like a short over cook.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Joe W said:
You forget that God is purported to be omnipotent. Which means that he has the capacity to make himself understood by anyone. An omnipotent being is not limited by anything. Not even the limited capacities of humans. Omnipotence, baby. Quit trying to limit it.
Click to expand...
I am not the one who limits it, God limits it. I have no power over God.

If you cannot figure out why an omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, take a logic course.
Meanwhile, maybe this will help:

“Say: He ordaineth as He pleaseth, by virtue of His sovereignty, and doeth whatsoever He willeth at His own behest. He shall not be asked of the things it pleaseth Him to ordain. He, in truth, is the Unrestrained, the All-Powerful, the All-Wise.” Gleanings, p, 284
 
ppp

ppp

Well-Known Member
Trailblazer said:
If you cannot figure out why an omnipotent God only does what He chooses to do, take a logic course.
Click to expand...
We have already established that your acquaintance with logic is spotty. At best. Talking about capacity. You keep trying to pretend I am talking about choice. Silly.
 
alsome

alsome

Member
It's hard to believe in what people believe in, or out of, and a lot of reasons about his reasons to what he does or doesn't do.
It's like he's invisible or something, and most commonly, invincible.
 
Trailblazer

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
Joe W said:
I don't know why you think it's a big deal. You are the one who keeps kvetching about my saying it.
Click to expand...
I do not think it is a big deal. I meant so what if God has the capacity if God does choose to use that capacity?
So what if I have several college degrees if I just choose to work at Burger King?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top