1. Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Featured Atheism and arrogance

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Piculet, Aug 1, 2020.

  1. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,644
    Ratings:
    +6,197
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    No one is "handing theists their reality". Theism is a choice, determined by experience, just as atheism or agnosticism is a choice, determined by experience. The difference is that theism is the choice to trust in an extraordinary possibility, while atheism is the choice to reject that extraordinary possibility simply because it is extraordinary. Neither choice is more "difficult" than the other to make. The basic difference that I see is that one choice expands the realm of what is possible while the other choice constricts it, unnecessarily.
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
  2. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2011
    Messages:
    30,298
    Ratings:
    +14,272
    Religion:
    Saivite Hindu
    "You're the arrogant one."
    "No, you're the arrogant one, and I know it."
    "No, it is you, because I know that you don't know."
    "Oh yeah! Don't be so stupid."
    "You're the one being stupid."

    ... blah blah blah
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Winner Winner x 1
  3. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    Yes, but atheists don't get the message that homosexuality and all the rest is a sin - so where is the advantage in that!
     
  4. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,644
    Ratings:
    +6,197
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Well, that does presuppose that:

    1. such evidence would have to exist, and
    2. that you, the atheist, is both willing and able to recognize that evidence for what it is.

    There is quite a bit of arrogance involved in these presumptions, don't you think?
     
    #64 PureX, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
  5. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,644
    Ratings:
    +6,197
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    This is a religious issue, not a theistic issue. Religion is the actual PRACTICE of a theological proposition, and as with all human practices, they will inevitably be rife with ignorance, bigotry, ego, greed, and so on. And atheists are just a guilty of these shortcomings as anyone else, is.
     
  6. HonestJoe

    HonestJoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 16, 2010
    Messages:
    4,036
    Ratings:
    +2,330
    Religion:
    None
    So you're saying you're better than all of those other people because they're so arrogant? o_O
     
    • Funny Funny x 2
    • Like Like x 1
    • Winner Winner x 1
  7. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    But the problem is that it is locked into their teaching - from some particular text, which might have some relevance or not - and one only has to look at where the anti-homosexuality sentiment comes from - religious teaching or countries like Russia and other East-Europeans ones - all a bit backward in their development. And much the same could be said for other issues.
     
  8. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,644
    Ratings:
    +6,197
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    Again, this is a religious problem, not a theistic problem. We will find the same problems with any human engagement; like politics, or commerce, or socializing, or even in science. We humans are a selfish, hypocritical, dishonest, violent bunch of animals. And that remains true whether we choose to trust in the existence of God, or not.
     
  9. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    As I've always commented, I've no issues with what anyone believes concerning God or anything else being spiritual. It's the religions that cause the problems - in the teaching and dogma, and presumably based on whatever text is relevant. And is why we have such as the OP - his views on homosexuality and towards atheists. That doesn't come out of thin air.
     
  10. Piculet

    Piculet Active Member

    Joined:
    Jun 15, 2020
    Messages:
    666
    Ratings:
    +144
    Religion:
    Islam
    That doesn't make any sense. Arrogance isn't dependent on looks.
    I'm only a student, please.
    There's actually significant arguments against that in Islam. People reject religion because they want to do what they want.
    You really claim belief in one thing is, in itself, arrogance? Then you don't have any belief in anything, i assume?
    I'm curious — why?
    If I don't single out something it will be a confusing discussion.
     
  11. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    23,938
    Ratings:
    +11,179
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Well, there are all sorts of contradictory messages from a thousand different sources -- religious and secular. We can't accept them all. How are we to choose if not by critical analysis?

    How is it an advantage to accept an unsupported claim that homosexuality is a sin?
     
  12. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    That explains a lot.
    No, that isn't the reason, so perhaps the Islamic explanation is wrong. They just don't believe in any gods, hence they are left with no other alternative.
    Assuming it is correct (and all the rest are wrong) is the arrogance, not the belief in itself.
    You should study the responses you have gotten. That might inform - and coming not just from any atheists. You come across as extremely arrogant - your way is correct (as per your religious doctrine) and all the rest are wrong.
     
  13. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

    Joined:
    May 8, 2016
    Messages:
    268
    Ratings:
    +134
    Isn't that a false dichotomy ?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

    Joined:
    Feb 12, 2006
    Messages:
    14,644
    Ratings:
    +6,197
    Religion:
    Philosophical Taoist/Christian
    People don't accept any "religious teachings" that they don't want to believe are true. Just as they don't accept any "political teaching" that they don't want to believe are true. Or just as they don't accept "commercial teaching" that they don't already want to believe to be true. And so on.

    Your problem is not with the existence of God, or even with religion. It's with the humans engaged in these ideas and practices. It's humans that make religion absurd, biased, and hateful, not the other way around.

    But not all humans are doing that. In fact, most humans that engage in religious practices are trying to do just the opposite of that. They are trying to separate themselves from those kinds of animal shortcomings. They want to overcome them. But you're ignoring all those theists and focusing only on the ones that want to use their religion as a way to express those animal shortcomings. Religions are not our directors, they are the tools we use to fulfill our own intended natures. The "gods" are representations and reflections of who we are, and who we think we want to become. And our religions are how we try to achieve that.
     
    • Winner Winner x 1
  15. columbus

    columbus yawn <ignore> yawn

    Joined:
    Feb 24, 2014
    Messages:
    24,492
    Ratings:
    +15,696
    Religion:
    None
    Feel free to make it clear that your assertions aren't Islamic, they're just your "student" opinions. Feel free to make it clear that you don't understand Islam, you're a "student".

    So far you haven't. So far, you've insisted that your opinions are from God.
    Tom
     
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    As I mentioned in another post, the antagonisms tend to come from either religious teaching or the more backward countries. Most of the liberal Western democracies have gotten over the issues they once had with homosexuality and related issues. How are we to change the religious attitudes when it is written in their texts?
     
  17. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, puerile filth
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Feb 17, 2018
    Messages:
    5,995
    Ratings:
    +2,664
    Religion:
    The one I was born with; therefore being none.
    But it's still there in the texts. What kind of change is going to alter that. Oh, they made a mistake so long ago. :rolleyes:

    And it's humans who make religions by the way.
     
    #77 Mock Turtle, Aug 1, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 1, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  18. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    23,938
    Ratings:
    +11,179
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    {Valjean said:
    How are you defining arrogant? Atheists simply don't believe in a claim without evidence.}
    Not following. How are you getting this out of a claim that atheists don't believe in things without evidence?
    How do ignorance, bigotry, ego, greed, and so on apply to atheists?
    You probably don't believe in unicorns. You're an a-unicornist. Does that position make you ignorant, bigoted, egotistic or greedy?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. sun rise

    sun rise "This is the Hour of God"
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2014
    Messages:
    49,382
    Ratings:
    +20,901
    Religion:
    Love
    arrogance: the belief that *I alone* know the truth and anyone who does not agree is of course an idiot.

    In other words, fanatics are arrogant.
     
  20. Valjean

    Valjean Veteran Member
    Premium Member

    Joined:
    Nov 25, 2004
    Messages:
    23,938
    Ratings:
    +11,179
    Religion:
    Vedanta (reform)
    Discredit their texts?
    Discredit their faith in their text of choice?
    Point out that had they been born in a different place they'd have embraced a different religious text?
    Point out that their faith is not a product of reason or evidence, but culture.?
     
    • Useful Useful x 1
Loading...