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Featured Atheism and arrogance

Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Piculet, Aug 1, 2020 at 9:14 AM.

  1. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    They are as "rational" as you or I are. They simply hold to a different criteria of rationalization.

    I have a friend who was raised in a home with a violent, physically and emotionally abusive father. He, his sister, and his mother all suffered the ongoing abuse of this ogre for decades. When the family priest used to come to visit, for dinner, he would get my friend alone and sexually molest him. So did an older cousin. And no one ever did anything about it. Even the man who preached about salvation every Sunday was just another liar and abuser, doing as he pleased when no one was looking. So my friend grew up believing that the world is a very 'Darwinist' environment where the strong do as they please to the weak, and get away with it. And there will always be someone stronger. So the best thing we can do is try and appease the ogres and hope they attack and abuse someone else, instead of us, when the urge strikes them.

    He spent his life working in a brokerage house, serving the greed of the rich and powerful (the ogres of our society), riding their coattails through the markets to gain a few extra shekels for himself, and hoping they would spare him from their abuse, as a loyal servant.

    He has been a die-hard republican all his life, and will undoubtably vote for Trump a second time. And nothing I could ever say to him will ever dissuade him from his dark and dour view of humanity and of the world. Because all his experiences in life have shown him that his dark and dour view of existence is accurate, and that people like me are just "irrational" ideological fools, living in some pretty fantasy-land where the strong can't just do whatever they want to the week, for their own pleasure, and get away with it.

    And I can't say that he's wrong. Only that he's not entirely right.
     
    #221 PureX, Aug 2, 2020 at 7:55 AM
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 8:09 AM
  2. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    In that case, I would like to speak out against the position of this post. I find it to be wrong and evidence of bigotry. Justifying such views because an ancient book promotes those views and it claims a deity supports those views is, in my mind, a dereliction of the duty to be compassionate and thoughtful.

    In my view, a religion that makes such claims is automatically immoral. And we need to speak up against such wrongdoing.
     
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  3. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    Values aren't handed to us by absolutely inerrantly true sky fairie scripture.
    (We see this in how such believers cannot agree on morals & truths.)
    We have what we have due to genetics & environment.
    There is no proving values to be true or false.
    If you're OK with persecuting homos, then such are you values.
    I have no proof you're wrong.
    But I do suggest considering the advantages of tolerance towards
    those who do no harm to others. It could even benefit you some day.
     
  4. viole

    viole Metaphysical Naturalist
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    Well, if that required Him to rest for one day, I would say it costed Him quite a bit.


    Ciao

    - viole
     
  5. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    Very many flaws.
    But with maturity & work, you could some day become like me.
     
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  6. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Yeah, we don't disagree here.
     
  7. Amanaki

    Amanaki Well-Known Member

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    Are you sure I want to become like you :eek::D
     
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  8. PureX

    PureX Veteran Member

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    But you are not the arbiter of all "wrongdoing". You are just a guy with an opinion. Same as everyone else. You have neither the authority nor the wisdom to declare the sins of others. And to presume that you do is very arrogant of you.
    We can all read the religious texts for ourselves, and form our own opinions about what they mean to us. We don't need or want you doing that for us. We may be interested in YOUR PERSONAL OPINIONS, and why you have chosen to hold them (that is partly why we're here), for the purposes of discussion. But your moral judgments are irrelevant, and unwarranted. You don't know anything more about right and wrong and God and existential purpose than anyone else, here.
     
    #228 PureX, Aug 2, 2020 at 8:04 AM
    Last edited: Aug 2, 2020 at 8:10 AM
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  9. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    I am glad I with maturity and work never became like you as for the differences in overall world view. I like how you take your own subjectivity for granted. I take mine to for granted, I just know it is subjective. How about you?
     
  10. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    What a strange question.
     
  11. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    No, I am honest. The best possible system for humans is not really that, because it is subjective or do you have an access to a truth that the rest of us don't have, because we are not like you?
     
  12. Piculet

    Piculet Active Member

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    This is the tactic used by disbelievers to prevent unity among believers.
     
  13. Polymath257

    Polymath257 Think & Care
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    Or, it is a statement of fact that believers, through their arrogance, want to deny.
     
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  14. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    Subjectivity & objectivity....we can have both.
     
  15. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Well, the problem is that I am also a believer and I am only an unbeliever for your point of view, which makes you an unbeliever, because you don't accept that there are other believers than you.
     
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  16. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    Proof or evidence, please. You know how it is.
     
  17. Mock Turtle

    Mock Turtle Asinine, socialist-leaning, lazy filth
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    Who am I to argue that life isn't bad for many - see my latest thread.

    But you can't argue with the fact that there is no higher authority (for many) than God or some other divine reality, for which one has no reasonable redress or argument - and that tends to come from belief in some written text, enforced by appropriate religious authorities (like every Sunday for many). I think that is the essential difference (and danger) between religious beliefs and any other ideology.
     
  18. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    We begin with subjective values.
    Then we can be objective about their application in the real world.
     
  19. mikkel_the_dane

    mikkel_the_dane Shadow Wolf's Aspie sibling

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    But that is not both. The values are not both subjective and objective. They are subjective. So again, what is the evidence that you have for the best possible system for values(politics and ethics)?
     
  20. Revoltingest

    Revoltingest Christine's Uncle Fergus
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    That's what I said.
    Using the values as premises, one may reason objectively from them.
    Thus humans have both subjectivity and objectivity.
    I have none....only personal preferences.
    What do you have?
     
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