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Astronomical events in Abrahamic religions
- Thread starter ronki23
- Start date
Eyes to See
Well-Known Member
The star that the wise men (or astrologers or magi) saw was obviously of supernatural origin. It lead them first to Jerusalem where they met up with Herod. And afterward, it lead them directly over the house where the young child Jesus was living with his parents, in Bethlehem. No star or planet/s in the heaven will lead you to a particular city and then to another town to a marked house. It is an impossibly for it to have been a natural wonder in heaven.
There was for the Bab and Baha'u'llah, I will share a blog, as it already contains the details.
It is said in Scripture and Tradition that at the time of the birth or announcement of every Messenger of God, a star or a appears in the heavens. Nimrod was warned of the star that told of the coming of Abraham. The soothsayers warned Pharaoh of the star in the heavens that foretold the coming of Moses. The Magi informed Herod of the new star that guided them to the throne of the "spiritual king," Jesus. The same legend is told of Buddha, Zoroaster, Muhammad and Krishna.
What were the signs in the heavens during the appearance of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh? The holy Scriptures of all faiths had spoken of Twin-Revelations that would appear at the "time of the end." Now that the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh had appeared, fulfilling these prophecies, what were the signs in the heavens? Signs, not for one, but for two Messengers of God, Who would appear almost simultaneously?
The story of the great comet of 1843 which foreshadowed the coming of the Báb. Sir James Jeans, late British astronomer and mathematician, stated in his book Through Space and Time, "oddly enough, many of the most conspicuous appearances of comets seem to have coincided with, or perhaps just anticipated, important events in history." [Sir James Jeans, Through Space and Time, pp. 102, 154]
One of the most unique stories of a comet is that told of the period during which the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh were engaging correspondence, and during which the Báb was preparing His followers for the appearance of Bahá'u'lláh. This story was told in the stars as well as on the earth.
In 1845 a comet appeared soon after the one in 1843. It was called Biela's Comet. It seemed to be an ordinary comet, in a year in which some 300 comets had appeared, and it had appeared many times before in the past. In 1846 it was still visible. At this period in its history, it became one of the unique comets of all time. It was now entering into the last dramatic moments of its life.
The Encyclopedia Americana gives the following account of this event:
"It was found again late in November 1845, and in the following month an observation was made of one of the most remarkable phenomena in astronomical records, the division of the comet. It put forth no tail while this alteration was going on. Professor Challis, using the Northumberland 1846, was inclined to distrust his eyes or his glass when he beheld two comets where but one had been before. He would call it, he said, a binary (twin) comet if such a thing had ever been heard of before. His observations were soon verified, however." [Encyclopedia Americana, vol. III, 1994 Ed., p. 691]
History shows that there had been other binary (twin comets) but Biela's was one of the most unusual. Sir James Jeans wrote of this same comet, saying: "The most interesting story is that of Rela's comet which broke in two while under observation in 1846."
The comet then disappeared. It returned in August, 1852. This was the very month and the very year in which Bahá'u'lláh was cast into an underground prison in Tihran.
This was the year 1269 of the calendar of Islam. It was also exactly the ninth year after the Báb's Declaration to Mulla Husayn in the year 1260. The Bab had prophesied: "Ere nine years have elapsed" the Promised One of all ages and religions will come.
It was but a few weeks later, in that same prison, that Bahá'u'lláh's Mission began.
August, 1852, was the hour of the reappearance of the comet, the comet that had split in two to become twin-comets. Strangely enough, at the time of the reappearance of the twin-comets in 1852, one half had receded far into the background. The other half, though in a parallel orbit, now dominated the scene. Just so had the Báb, the Herald of the Bahá'í Faith, passed into history, and the One Whose coming He had foretold, Bahá'u'lláh, had assumed His Mission.
The Americana record of this astronomical event states: "Late in August, 1852, the larger portion again came into view; and three weeks later the smaller one, now much fainter than its former companion was seen about 1,500,000 miles in the lead." Sir James Jeans confirms this: "Six years later [1852], when the comet's orbit again brought it near to the sun, two pieces were observed to be one and a half million miles apart."
Of that hour when the twin-comets rode the skies above His prison, Bahá'u'lláh has written: "I was but a man like others, asleep upon my couch, when lo, the breezes of the All Glorious [God] were wafted over Me and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-knowing." [Shoghi Effendi, The Promised Day is Come, pp.]
Following this twin-appearance, Sir James Jeans states, "neither of them has been seen in cometary form, but the place where they ought to be is occupied by a swarm of millions of meteors, known as the Andromedid meteors. Occasionally these meet the earth in its orbit, and make a grand meteoric display."
The two comets were no longer separate comets, but were mingled in one great shower of light, just as the Faith of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh are not separate but one in the light which they shed upon the earth.
(William Sears, Release the Sun, pp. 217-219)
Baha'i Historical Facts: Signs in Heavens during the Appearance of the Báb and Bahá'u'lláh
Regards Tony
Kooky
Freedom from Sanity
Of course they will. A lot of people in premodern times - especially those accustomed to travel at night or versed in astronomy - knew how to read stellar constellations, and could use them for navigation; the Polar Star, for example, always points North if you're North of the equator.
It is absurd to read these passages as stars literally guiding people by hand like a guide would, rather than the very obvious reading of people using stellar navigation like any sensible traveller in a pre-industrial society would. No ancient Palestinian in their right mind would have expected people to be literally taken by the hand by a star.
The passage about the star in Matthew chapter 2 alludes to the prophecy of Balaam son of Beor found in Numbers 24:15. It makes no literal sense, but that is Matthew's intention.
15 Then he spoke his message: "The prophecy of Balaam son of Beor, the prophecy of one whose eye sees clearly, 16 the prophecy of one who hears the words of God, who has knowledge from the Most High, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened: 17 "I see him, but not now; I behold him, but not near. A star will come out of Jacob; a scepter will rise out of Israel. He will crush the foreheads of Moab, the skulls of all the people of Sheth. 18 Edom will be conquered; Seir, his enemy, will be conquered, but Israel will grow strong. 19 A ruler will come out of Jacob and destroy the survivors of the city." (Numbers 24:15-19)
So this star in the story of Matthew indicates that we have arrived at some special time when the ruler comes out of Jacob. Notice it does not say "Out of Abraham" or "Out of Isaac" or "Out of Ishmael" but specifically says "Out of Jacob." So Baalam has this vision of the star which comes he says from Jacob, who is a constellation of stars. Balaam's vision reminds us of Joseph's dream in which his brother's stars and his father Jacob's star and also the moon bowed to his own star. That story is in Genesis 37.So there is a lot going on, here, which is connected to various previous scriptures. We have the wise men seeing this star. Then we have Balaam's vision of it. Then we have Joseph's vision showing us that the vision of Baalam probably has 12 stars and a moon, and out of these comes one star -- perhaps a thirteenth star but that is guessing. Perhaps one of the 12 stars moves.
What, then, is the significance to Matthew of writing about a star, and how does it relate to Balaam's vision which mentions terrible things like crushing the forehead of Moab? Matthew is interpreting these as the seed of the woman striking the head of the serpent. He is interpreting the prophecy about Eve from Genesis 3:15. The overall message of Matthew is that now has come the time, finally, finally, when all of the hopes of Israel are fulfilled; and they are fulfilled not by might or by power but by the spirit. So the Jews are to see the kingdom of God in the Romans and are to spread love and believe that the spirit will enter into the Romans; and that is the Logos, the Word, which has the power to make all into sons of God. (Per John 1).
So the characters in Balaam's vision: Moab, Sheth and Edom are treated differently by Matthew than you might expect. They are not treated as human tribes any longer but are something else such as principles or as obstacles within humanity which are being overcome so that all can fellowship together. Matthew here is talking about this star which relates to Balaam and Joseph's visions but moreover relates to Jacob as the parent of the star. It comes out of Jacob (the twelve tribes), and it overcomes these obstacles in humanity paving the way for peace on Earth, good will towards all.
My last mystical experience, and communion with the Gods was during the last Saturn/Jupiter conjunction.
I was also born during peak activity of the Aquariid Meteor Shower, associated with Haley's Comet.
Does that make me a prophet? I've got a message, but I doubt people would believe me.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The star may have never existed. The author of Matthew did appear to use scriptures to help him to flesh out his story.
It is mentioned in prophecy that there is such events.
It is but one sign of many. One could say a proof.
Regards Tony
So what I am hearing is I am a "proofet...
Always knew I was a Mystic, but prophet is a new title.
In your opinion.
Which thank goodness, doesn't have the authority to determine whether or not I am truly a prophet.
Regards Austin
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Does one have to make a profit to be a prophet?
Astrophile
Active Member
Since Bethlehem is nearly due south of Jerusalem, a person travelling from Jerusalem to Bethlehem after sunset during spring or before sunrise during late summer or early autumn would see Canopus (the second brightest star in the night sky) apparently 'going before them' and standing over Bethlehem. Perhaps this is the origin of the story of the star leading the Magi.
gnostic
The Lost One
Navigation by stars are more than possible. Ancient sailors have been navigating at night by this mean.
However, it isn’t possible to be guided by star, from some unknown & unspecified location in the East (some would say Babylon, others would say Susa in Persia), to Bethlehem, to find specific house.
Especially, not in the way Matthew 2 had narrated the event. The story is indeed, absurd.
As ancient Judaea is located in the northern hemisphere, as well as wherever the location that the magi originated, the only star that would appear to fix in the night sky, would be Polaris, the “North Star”.
All other stars would “appear to be moving” during the night, for any observers at his, her or their given location.
In the night sky, stars & constellations would be appear to be gradually “drifting”, as time passed, with some of these stars & constellations vanishing in the western horizon or appeared to be rising from the eastern horizon.
This Stellar Drifting is largely due to the rotation of the Earth.
If it was a real star, as you’d move from east to west, the star would still be ahead of the navigator, especially at the slow pace those 3 magi.
In fact, in the direction they were heading, the stars would not be in same place, because with each new nights the stars would first appear after sunset at different location in the sky.
So when a person leaving, says Babylon for instance, and follow a particular star, that star he would be seeing be moving ahead of him. I would highly doubt the star would move closer to the observer, as he reach Jerusalem.
And Bethlehem is a short distance from Jerusalem, 8 or 9 km away, 2 or 3 hours journey on foot, less on horseback...or needing medical treatment if you were on a bloody donkey.
Sand Dancer
Crazy Cat Lady
Back then they thought the dome of sky was not very tall. To them it would be just above where they were looking.Navigation by stars are more than possible. Ancient sailors have been navigating at night by this mean.
However, it isn’t possible to be guided by star, from some unknown & unspecified location in the East (some would say Babylon, others would say Susa in Persia), to Bethlehem, to find specific house.
Especially, not in the way Matthew 2 had narrated the event. The story is indeed, absurd.
As ancient Judaea is located in the northern hemisphere, as well as wherever the location that the magi originated, the only star that would appear to fix in the night sky, would be Polaris, the “North Star”.
All other stars would “appear to be moving” during the night, for any observers at his, her or their given location.
In the night sky, stars & constellations would be appear to be gradually “drifting”, as time passed, with some of these stars & constellations vanishing in the western horizon or appeared to be rising from the eastern horizon.
This Stellar Drifting is largely due to the rotation of the Earth.
If it was a real star, as you’d move from east to west, the star would still be ahead of the navigator, especially at the slow pace those 3 magi.
In fact, in the direction they were heading, the stars would not be in same place, because with each new nights the stars would first appear after sunset at different location in the sky.
So when a person leaving, says Babylon for instance, and follow a particular star, that star he would be seeing be moving ahead of him. I would highly doubt the star would move closer to the observer, as he reach Jerusalem.
And Bethlehem is a short distance from Jerusalem, 8 or 9 km away, 2 or 3 hours journey on foot, less on horseback...or needing medical treatment if you were on a bloody donkey.
Audie
Veteran Member
You KNOW that?
Nobody even knows where or when the man who was not actually name Jesus was even born.
Audie
Veteran Member
Obviously it’s just a story. Like “flood”.
gnostic
The Lost One
In the worlds of today’s mathematics and sciences, the term “proof”, is a logical statement or a logical model, often expressed in formulas and equations. Hence, proof is more maths than science, although maths is a very useful tools in Natural Sciences and Physical Sciences (I’m excluding Social Sciences here).
Some people use the word “proof” as if it is synonymous with “evidence”. It isn’t for scientists and mathematicians, but some people confuse proof with evidence, because they are used synonymously by lawyers, judges, police, reporters, and in fictions (including tv and movies) of law court or police dramas.
I don’t see any proof in religious signs and prophecies, no logic, and certainly no maths in any of the scriptures.