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Astrology vs Science.
- Thread starter chinu
- Start date
Depends on which planet, the closer planets that reflect sunlight were seen long before mankind even walked upright.
Although venus was written over 3.5 thousand years ago by Babylonian astronomers i think it was Galileo who observed it as a planet
Mars was first observed by Egyptian astronomers about the same time, as venus was discovered. Francisco Fontana, lawyer, mathematician and astronomer first recorded it as a planet in the early 1600s
Jupiter, first written about by Babylonian astronomers nine thousand years ago. Not until 4000 years later did it become the "year star" an chinese astrology.
Saturns discovery is uncertain, but seems to have been recognised as a star by the Assyrians, almost 3000 years ago
After that descoveties are all down to modern astronomy using more and more powerful telescopes
Not understanding what you want to compare. Astrology is about how the planets positions affect your life. Science describes how things work. Discovery of the planets varies and anyone could do it no matter there occupation they just need to like looking at the night sky.
Igor.
Only three planets have named recognized discoverers: Uranus (Hershel), Neptune (Adams/Galle), and Pluto (Tombaugh).
The other 5 were discovered by Babylonian astronomers prehistory.
The earth, of course, was never formally "discovered" because we live here.
Native
Free Natural Philosopher & Comparative Mythologist
The discovery of the 5 planets is as old as humans. They were just mentioned as "wandering stars" and only desribed historically by their color, luminosity and motion.
This is a more complicated question. Astrology take the planets as gods and goddess which influences humans - but originally the planetary names were given FROM the Roman Pantheon of Deities of Creation.
Still in astrology, planets are taken as gods and goddess but the myths of these deities belongs to quite another realm of creation where the prime deities even were at place BEFORE the creation of the Solar System and it´s planets.
Besides all this, the popular astrology is out of synch with the Zodiacal sign and the earthly calendar.
Science as we know it didn't develop until the 17th century. The planets were studied well before then. I think there's your answer, but keep in mind not all planets were known before the 17th century. Certainly exoplanets weren't.
It's not just the planets; it's the constellations and what they supposedly represent. Astrology tells me that I was born under the sign of Capricorn and that each sign has various attributes and personality traits. Apparently, it's the same star sign as Jesus Christ, Brian of Nazareth, and Richard Nixon, so I guess I'm in good company.
I recall a popular song where they sang "This is the dawning of the Age of Aquarius," but I never could figure out what they were talking about.
The word 'planet' originally meant 'wanderer'.
If you go outside on a clear night, you can see thousands stars just by looking up. The positions of those stars with respect to each other stays the same from night to night. People have divided the patterns of the stars in the sky into constellations, often giving names to the patterns from the local mythology.
But, a very few move over time in the sky. The moon, for example, is in a different place in the sky (compared to the stars) each night. And, a few others also move in the sky over time: those are the planets.
Originally, the sun and moon were considered to be planets: their positions also move with respect to the background stars. Furthermore, all of the planets stay (in the sky) in a narrow band around the path the sun takes in the sky (which is the same from year to year). This path of the sun is called the ecliptic.
The constellations that the ecliptic goes through are called the Zodiac.
All of this was discovered in pre-history. The Egyptians and Babylonians wrote extensively about the paths of the planets in the sky. These motions became incorporated into their religions as well.
In these religions/traditions, the events in 'heaven' (in other words, the planets) affected life on Earth. Astrology was developed on this idea: that the positions of things in the sky affect what happens on Earth. In particular, there were astrological traditions in most ancient societies, although not directly related to those of today.
It should also be remembered that the whole of the 'material universe' was envisioned to be only a few million miles across: the stars were seen as lights on a vast dome surrounding the Earth.
Astrology as we know it today originated after Alexander the Great spread the ancient Greek understanding of the cosmos to much of the civilized world at the time. The planets were seen as driven by a 'prime mover' in the heavens and on separate crystalline spheres. Upon death, the soul of people was envisioned as rising through these spheres on the way to heaven. This view was standard in Greek and Roman societies up to the spread of Christianity.
Science came MUCH later, when we found that the Earth is NOT the enter of the universe and actually orbits the sun, along with the traditional planets. We then discovered other planets that were originally invisible (no telescopes). And, among other things, we discovered that the universe is vastly larger than anything anyone envisioned in ancient Greek times.
It is about a century since we learned there are other galaxies and only a couple of decades since we have learned that other stars have planetary systems of their own. We now know the sun is a star and that the stars are powered by nuclear fusion reactions in their cores.
An informative article on astrology: Zodiac - Wikipedia
If you go outside on a clear night, you can see thousands stars just by looking up. The positions of those stars with respect to each other stays the same from night to night. People have divided the patterns of the stars in the sky into constellations, often giving names to the patterns from the local mythology.
But, a very few move over time in the sky. The moon, for example, is in a different place in the sky (compared to the stars) each night. And, a few others also move in the sky over time: those are the planets.
Originally, the sun and moon were considered to be planets: their positions also move with respect to the background stars. Furthermore, all of the planets stay (in the sky) in a narrow band around the path the sun takes in the sky (which is the same from year to year). This path of the sun is called the ecliptic.
The constellations that the ecliptic goes through are called the Zodiac.
All of this was discovered in pre-history. The Egyptians and Babylonians wrote extensively about the paths of the planets in the sky. These motions became incorporated into their religions as well.
In these religions/traditions, the events in 'heaven' (in other words, the planets) affected life on Earth. Astrology was developed on this idea: that the positions of things in the sky affect what happens on Earth. In particular, there were astrological traditions in most ancient societies, although not directly related to those of today.
It should also be remembered that the whole of the 'material universe' was envisioned to be only a few million miles across: the stars were seen as lights on a vast dome surrounding the Earth.
Astrology as we know it today originated after Alexander the Great spread the ancient Greek understanding of the cosmos to much of the civilized world at the time. The planets were seen as driven by a 'prime mover' in the heavens and on separate crystalline spheres. Upon death, the soul of people was envisioned as rising through these spheres on the way to heaven. This view was standard in Greek and Roman societies up to the spread of Christianity.
Science came MUCH later, when we found that the Earth is NOT the enter of the universe and actually orbits the sun, along with the traditional planets. We then discovered other planets that were originally invisible (no telescopes). And, among other things, we discovered that the universe is vastly larger than anything anyone envisioned in ancient Greek times.
It is about a century since we learned there are other galaxies and only a couple of decades since we have learned that other stars have planetary systems of their own. We now know the sun is a star and that the stars are powered by nuclear fusion reactions in their cores.
An informative article on astrology: Zodiac - Wikipedia
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One interesting aspect of this is that the procession of the equinoxes has made it so that the actual constellation the sun is in is different than what the astrological tradition would have it be. So, if astrology says you were born as an Taurus, the sun was *actually* in the constellation of Gemini.
Oh, this is also why you will occasionally see someone 'discover' a 13th constellation on the Zodiac: Ophiuchus.
The ecliptic does go through the modern constellation (the specifics of what constellation is where have changed over time because of differing traditions).
The point is that the usual 12 constellations are a tradition. They, like all constellations, are arbitrary patterns *we* see in the sky. They have no actual connection to the stars or planets themselves. And, in fact, if you could move to a different star, the constellations would all change because of the different perspective.
The ecliptic does go through the modern constellation (the specifics of what constellation is where have changed over time because of differing traditions).
The point is that the usual 12 constellations are a tradition. They, like all constellations, are arbitrary patterns *we* see in the sky. They have no actual connection to the stars or planets themselves. And, in fact, if you could move to a different star, the constellations would all change because of the different perspective.
There was a brief period in my youth when I kind of dabbled in astrology. I got some books and tried to cast my own natal horoscope. It was actually kind of fascinating in its own way. However, I came to realize that, as a tool for prognostication or determining someone's personality/character, it's functionally useless and open to multiple interpretations. And that's even assuming that there is some kind of "special power" in the planets or stars which governs our personalities and fate.
gnostic
The Lost One
Planets were known in ancient times, by Babylonians and Egyptians during the Bronze Age, but they were all misidentified as stars. Neither of them referred to them as planets until they came into contacts with Hellenistic Greeks.
The Iron Age Greeks were the ones who coined the term “planet”, that translated as “wanderer”, or “wandering star”. I am not certain when the Greeks first coined this word, but it did predated the Hellenistic period (post-Alexander era).
Anyway, like the Babylonians and Egyptians before them, the Greeks have mistakenly assumed these were stars, but unlike fixed stars, these wandering stars (including the sun and moon, these were seen as planets too), moved along the celestial line. Mercury, Venus, Mars, Jupiter and Saturn were all assumed to be stars.
No one knew in ancient times, really understood what any of these astronomical objects were at that time, they just knew there were patterns in their localities and in their motion in the night sky, on the seasonal and annual basis.
The planets that were known back then don’t apply in the same ways that we understand the word planet in modern astronomy.
Lot of the labels we used in modern astronomy, have different meanings in ancient times.
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gnostic
The Lost One
It is my understanding that early Christian tradition originally believed that Jesus was born around the time of March, not December...so not Jesus wasn’t a Capricorn.
Bourne
Member
Astrology makes more sense than science
To whom?
Bourne
Member
Lol are you aware that science has determined that the universe is a computer simulation on a big hard drive
ReluctantMathematician
Member
Science has determined that the Universe is a metaphor?
MNoBody
Well-Known Member
good question.
something I have observed is that the most ancient cultures apparently knew the phenomenon of precession, the great year, quite well, very familiar with its subtleties even...which is not something some troglodytes will determine...
and it was observed by historians of those ages that the ones building monuments and studying such cosmological matters
had said that they were basing their work on what had gone on in times even more ancient...
and those works apparently have been lost to humanity....and even these more recent cultures [egyptian, sumerian, mayan, etc] their records are incomplete, from destruction, both by "natural" causes [cataclysmic] and by men seeking to hide knowledge [censorship]
which all implies that whatever story us moderns have cooked up about history, is likely way off base.
[A Pack of lies, the propaganda of the victor, in other words.]
something I have observed is that the most ancient cultures apparently knew the phenomenon of precession, the great year, quite well, very familiar with its subtleties even...which is not something some troglodytes will determine...
and it was observed by historians of those ages that the ones building monuments and studying such cosmological matters
had said that they were basing their work on what had gone on in times even more ancient...
and those works apparently have been lost to humanity....and even these more recent cultures [egyptian, sumerian, mayan, etc] their records are incomplete, from destruction, both by "natural" causes [cataclysmic] and by men seeking to hide knowledge [censorship]
which all implies that whatever story us moderns have cooked up about history, is likely way off base.
[A Pack of lies, the propaganda of the victor, in other words.]