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Assume you are the " creator "

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Onoma, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Let's put aside the classic ancient tradition of a priest " creating " in real time by their words and choices ( Common in Egyptian priestly duties as an example ) and instead consider the supposed physical act of creation of the universe as it's often put forth by those attempting to literally interpret Genesis

    If you " created the universe ", would you leave some evidence behind or perhaps even a proof of sorts that could only be discovered when your creation/s had evolved to a specific " level " of intelligence ?

    Would you consider yourself benevolent for leaving such a trail of breadcrumbs ?

    Conversely, would you consider yourself benevolent for not providing such evidence or proof ?
     
  2. Quintessence

    Quintessence Tale Weaver
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    Nope, nope, and nope.

    As someone who engages in creation already, I don't have any interest in being egomaniacal about it. If I scaled it up to impossible levels, I still wouldn't have any interest in being egomaniacal about it. I don't really care about taking credit for anything, just in general. It isn't about me, it is about serving something greater than that.
     
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  3. Eddi

    Eddi eddifying

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    I think the benevolent thing to do would be to leave a really obscure "trail of breadcrumbs" that 99.999% of the people who could notice would never notice, let alone understand...

    This is because as a creator I'd want to have some interaction with my creations and to give them a limited amount of help, but wouldn't want to make things too easy for them otherwise what would be the point?
     
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  4. Altfish

    Altfish Veteran Member

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    I'd punish people who feel the need to worship me. Ignore me people, ok I built this place, but just get on with life.
     
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  5. Brian2

    Brian2 Well-Known Member

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    God has certainly left evidence in His creation that He exists and created it all. It seems that when we think we are really smart and knowledgeable that is when we can become blind to the evidence.
    Beyond the creation, God has also come to humanity and told them what He did, and what God has told us is what science keeps showing to be true.
    If we want to find God, and God wants us to seek for Him, then all we need is what you call the trail of breadcrumbs.
     
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  6. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    The evidence is already there, no need for humans to pretend if we were a creator, the creator is already there. And the proof is in all the spiritual teachings given to mankind. Unfortunately most people of today is totally blind spiritually and can't see the evidence even when it is handed to them
     
    #6 Conscious thoughts, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
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  7. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Interesting

    I could also see making an argument that it's benevolent to not leave any evidence or proof of my existence

    The reason would be that it would leave my creations always seeking and searching for answers, which is the spirit of science ( imo )

    I feel like providing all the answers would be like giving students the answers to the test before giving them the test, which would likely lull them into thinking there was no point to study
     
  8. Eddi

    Eddi eddifying

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    I imagine that it would be possible to help them along, whilst not actually giving them any answers
     
  9. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Fair enough, let me add this caveat

    Let's say this " proof " can be exposed at some time and then generally seen by anyone, but the origin of the exposing of the proof is not directly traceable to you

    Iow, nobody has a clue it's you, and you don't bother to admit it because you generally don't care about being acknowledged personally ?
     
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  10. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Herein lays the major problem

    What constitutes " proof " for people generally changes with the person

    If I said " I can prove the Bible " is " God's word " to a mathematician, they would be expecting a rigorous proof using mathematics

    If I said " I can prove the Bible " is " God's word " to the general layperson, they would likely be thinking of " scientific proof ' , which.... doesn't actually exist ( This is generally agreed on by the academic community ), so the premise would be faulty to begin with
     
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  11. Conscious thoughts

    Conscious thoughts Veteran Member

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    It means we must see religious practices and religious teaching through religion. And scientific proof through science. Not trying to mix them or explain one with the other? Am I understanding your thoughts then?
     
  12. JustGeorge

    JustGeorge Well-Known Member

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    Would I leave behind evidence? Well, just knowing myself and the way I work, I'd probably end up leaving evidence whether I intended to or not(possibly in the form of cat once, once I'd created them).

    I probably wouldn't consider myself benevolent or malevolent either way, because I don't think I'd create those ideas. The two extremes of either just don't sit well with me, as nothing is ever completely good, or completely bad.

    But, of course, the people left behind to pick up my figurative trail of cat hair will probably invent these ideas on their own, and then it all unfolds from there...
     
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  13. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Perhaps mock and ridicule their rituals and ceremonies, temples and claims ?

    Personally, If I were " God " I'd want to appear to be nothing more than to be a normal person, probably even a " loser " or someone considered to be from the dregs of society
     
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  14. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    No, what I am saying is that since " scientific proof " isn't something that exists ( You don't prove a theory, you test it it in the attempt to falsify it ), and that math is how we objectively " prove " things, then by logic ( imo ) it makes sense to leave the " proof " in the form of mathematics ( Most likely involving both natural and symbolic languages ) and that said " proof " would only be discovered when my creation/s had advanced their understanding of math and math theory to a certain point ( It would have been there the whole time waiting to be discovered )

    I would posit all truths in the universe could eventually be reduced to simple and elegant mathematics, and that this would be universal ( Able to be discovered anywhere in the universe I had created )

    I keep thinking about this for some reason, perhaps after seeing so many great questions from other posters here, that generally question existence, truth, meaning , semiosis and so on, and the question I keep coming to is " Would I leave a discoverable proof of my existence or would I not ? ", because I can see a benefit to either one, but I feel one ( Knowing for certain after discovering said proof ) might actually be detrimental instead

    Iow, my creation/s knowing for certain I exist could actually be harmful instead
     
  15. Power Stone

    Power Stone Unknown Member

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    Humans can never know the secrets of existence. They wouldn't handle it well. God was smart.
     
  16. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    If one has (EDIT) not, heard of what he abrahamic god, what characteristics in creation that would lead to that god?

    Anything specific without point of reference?
     
    #16 Unveiled Artist, Aug 10, 2020
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  17. Unveiled Artist

    Unveiled Artist Veteran Member

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    I'd probably incarnate myself to a human being so hunans can have a relationship with "me" as a human and god?

    Evidence? Maybe I'd keep to the Experience and tell people who want me to live in them to not see me as a necessity but as a choice.

    Maybe only save those who treat every one as they would treat me.

    Ha. I have no clue.
     
  18. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    Interesting, thank you

    I find that to be at odds with what I know about historical beliefs in the antiquities, as the recording and calculation of the movements in the heavens were considered to be de facto the pinnacle of knowledge as it related to the gods

    Mathematics and religious beliefs at the time were inseparable, and where later literature like the Bible says things like " The heavens reveal the glory of God ", this was fully believed by earlier societies whose lives revolved around the knowledge of the cycles and mathematics of said " gods "

    This is well attested to in many colophon of astronomy texts belonging to priests

    Like this example from an ephemeride ( Table of observations recorded using math )

    131.png
     
  19. Nakosis

    Nakosis crystal soldier
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    I would want "life" to go on about its business with as little influence from myself as possible. I'd want to see what happened without me mucking about the place. I'd occasionally observe to see how life was faring. Either they'd figure out how to survive or they wouldn't.

    Nothing really benevolent about it. More to see if life could come up with something better than I had in mind.
     
  20. Onoma

    Onoma Active Member

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    If I'm understanding the question correctly ( Is there something outside the Bible that is a precedent for the Abrahamic God ? ) - I would probably say that the Sumerian " Mes ", ( Themselves written to be associated with the 2 " Mes trees " in the garden of the gods ) which are essentially sacerdotal duties ( roles that are fulfilled by a deified priest ) are themselves the basis for the roles associated with the Abrahamic God and priest/s that serve under it

    1. ENship ( En means " lord / priest " )
    2. Godship
    3. The exalted and enduring crown
    4. The throne of kingship
    5. The exalted sceptre
    6. The royal insignia
    7. The exalted shrine
    8. Shepherdship
    9. Kingship
    The rest here - Me (mythology) - Wikipedia


    Is that what you were asking about ?
     
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