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Association with conspiracy.

Discussion in 'Hinduism DIR' started by Devotee, Sep 25, 2012.

  1. Devotee

    Devotee Vaisnava

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    Why has the Hare Krishna's for some reason got themselves involves with the beliefs in many conspiracies? I understand saying the prabhupada was possibly poisoned, that is within the movement, but what about "chemtrails", "illuminati", NWO, etc. I see alot of them saying that what prabhupada called "demons" are really illuminati. When prabhupada himself simply said that the "demons" were really just materialistic individuals. Pretty clear cut in my book. The reason why I bring it up? If you are a Hare Krishna, do you believe in this stuff? Even if your not a Hare Krishna, your opinion of why this movement would seemingly hurt it's image (more) believing in this kind of stuff. I have always had an interest in this philosophy, and movement, but I'm a afraid that every tine I search for "Hare Krishna" the third thing that comes up is illuminati and NWO, which seems a little crazy.
     
  2. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    Well the Hare Krishnas are a fundamentalist cult, and like with all fundamentalist cults, you can expect some extremist woo-woo stuff. One of the reasons the HK group is associated with conspiracy theories is because Prabhupada denied the moon-landing because they did not find on the moon what the Puranas state, he claimed there was vegetation on the moon and civilizations living on the moon(some HK's mitigate this by saying that in a higher dimension there is a civilization living on the moon invisible to humans) Another reason why is the account modern science has given of space is a heliocentric solar system conflicts with HK's literal puranic accounts of geocentric Earth where the sun, moon and stars are all rotating around the Earth like a chandelier pivoted around the pole star. Hence in order to account for this they entertain conspiracy theories that some evil sinister scientific-industralized clandestine organization is suppressing all of this "Vedic science" Hence, we can see why HK entertain NWO/Illuminati conspiracy theories.
     
    #2 Surya Deva, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  3. Devotee

    Devotee Vaisnava

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    Is this true of all gaudiya vaishnavas? Are they all fundamentalist? Or is this simply true of Hare Krishnas?
     
  4. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    No, I don't think it is true of all Gaudiya Vaishnavas, as I think they are not as literal as the HKs. However, what cannot be denied is that the Puranas do indeed support the the cosmology the HK's teach. I am not sure what the opinion of other sects of the Gaudiya Vaishnavism is on the literal teachings of the Puranas. I would imagine, like Abrahamic apologists interpret their own cosmological statements in scripture as symbolic, they interpret Puranic accounts as symbolic.
     
    #4 Surya Deva, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  5. Vinayaka

    Vinayaka devotee
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    Many Gaudiya Vaishnavas I have heard or read on-line take some offense to ISKCON, as they feel ISKCON has done a disservice to the lineage.
     
  6. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    dear sureya deva ,


    I love it " woo - woo stuff" !

    what on bhumhi devi is woo - woo stuff ?

    well this is a new one that I have not heard yet !!!

    no it is not true of all gaudia vaisnavas !I dont think that it is even true of many iscon devotees !

    I think a lot of these conspiricy stories are perpetuated by those who would like to bring down the tradition , I am not saying that there have not been some strange goings on around iskcon as a tradition , but I think much has to do with human nature and its desire for control , as a movement I think it grew too quickly and many of the adepts are still to new to the phylosophy and from early years there were splits in opinion , and differences of opinion as to the inturpretation of prabhupadas instructions and now looking back it is quite hard to say exactly what prabhupada said and what is the inturpretation of his devotees ! and as with all differences of opinions arguements insue and one tries to disscredit the other ......and so it goes on
    but it is not unique to iscon it happens within western buddhist traditions also ,differences of opinions followed by mud silnging and slander but in all such cases one thing is happening ......

    anyone who involves themselves in such intrigues ends up destroying their own spiritual focus ,and becoming obsessed with worldly intrigues .

    if we come across adharma there is a very simple solution walk away ! dont get involved and if you are involved dont stay involved , distance yourself and return your focus to your own personal sadhana .
    where ever you go in this world if you are looking for fault you will find fault , instead put your energy into looking for god only this way will you find the true purpose of life .
     
    #6 ratikala, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  7. ratikala

    ratikala Istha gosthi

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    dear devotee ,


    please do not think that this is true of all gaudia vaisnavas or even of all iskcon devotees ,
    there are fundamentalists everywhere in every tradition and quite frequently the ones who accuse another of fundamentalism are quite often equaly fundamental about their own beleifs , and simply canot bear strong beleifs in others if they are not in agreement with their own ???

    I think I would have to agree with prabhupada here there are a lot of demons in this world and yes I would follow your thought that by demons he ment worldly minded and devious persons bent on securing their own position .
     
  8. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    Moon landing a hoax

    Although many believe man first reached the moon in July, 1969, we have information from a very reliable source, the Sanskrit Vedic scriptures, that the astronauts never actually went to the moon. The manned moon landing was a colossal hoax.

    Now, why do we believe the Vedic scriptures rather than the material scientists? Because the Vedic scriptures differ from the conclusions of material science in that they are not based on imperfect sensory investigation, but are apaurusa i.e., they emanate from God, who is beyond the material world. In other words, Vedic evidence stands above the defects of conditioned souls within the material world. Thus, when it comes to real scientific knowledge, the standard of Vedic authority is perfect because it originates directly from the all-perfect, omniscient Personality of Godhead.
    The Vedic account of our planetary system is already researched, concluded, and perfect. The Vedas state that the moon is 800,000 miles farther from the earth than the sun. Therefore, even if we accept the modern calculation of 93 million miles as the distance from the earth to the sun, how could the “astronauts” have traveled to the moon–a distance of almost 94 million miles–in only 91 hours (the alleged elapsed time of the Apollo 11 moon trip)? This would require an average speed of more than one million miles per hour for the spacecraft, a patently impossible feat by even the space scientists’ calculations.

    Another important reason why the manned moon landing must be a hoax is that, according to the Vedas, each planet has its particular standard of living and atmosphere, and no one can transfer from one planet to another without becoming properly qualified. This means that if someone wants to go to Mars, for instance, he has to give up his present gross material body and acquire another one suitable for life on that particular planet. Vedic knowledge teaches that the living being doesn’t die with the death of the body, but that he is an eternal spirit soul.


    Man On The Moon–A Colossal Hoax that Cost Billions of Dollars | Hare Krishna Community
     
    #8 Surya Deva, Sep 25, 2012
    Last edited: Sep 25, 2012
  9. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    I've spoken to many Gaudiya Vaishnavas who were anything but fundamentalist.
     
  10. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    LOL Someone needs to go watch Mythbusters.

    ...and learn just how spaceflight actually works.
     
  11. TenjikuZero

    TenjikuZero Advaitin

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    This is why I just ignore those HK guys...One can take a horse to the water; but cant make it drink. I only post to refute some really outlandish claims by them(lest they confuse people interested in Dharmic philosophies), other than that I have realized that anything else is an exercise in futility :D

    Btw, The founder of ISCON believed in the moon landing conspiracy theories...dont know why people still defend him though :shrug:
     
  12. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    Straight from the mouth of their cult-founder Prabhupada:

    Srila Prabhupada: "It is my firm conviction that they did not go to the moon. Neither they'll be able to go to the Mars as they have planned it." (Room Conversation, July 6th, 1976, Washington, D.C.)

    Srila Prabhupada: "Yes, so where is the doubt? It is a fact that they did not go to the moon. That's a fact." (Morning Walk, June 10th, 1975, Honolulu)

    Candanacarya: There are scientists in England who agree that they didn't go to the planet.
    Srila Prabhupada: Huh?
    Candanacarya: There are some scientists in England who agree with you that they did not go to the moon.
    Srila Prabhupada: Yes, they did not. Simply propaganda. (Morning Walk, June 4th, 1976, Los Angeles)

    They have not gone to the moon
    excerpt from conversation with disciples, Perth, May 12, 1975

    Prabhupada: They have not gone to the moon planet.
    Paramahamsa: Really?
    Prabhupada: Yes. It is far, far away. Their calculation is wrong. They are going to a wrong planet.

    Paramahamsa: It must be the Rahu planet.
    Prabhupada: Yes, or something else. Not moon planet.

    Paramahamsa: How many...
    Prabhupada: It is above the sun planet.

    Paramahamsa: Moon planet is further?
    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Paramahamsa: Oh. Because they say that the moon planet is the closest planet to the earth. That is their calculation. And they say that it orbits around the earth, and then that the earth orbits the sun.

    Prabhupada: All wrong. What is the... According to them, what is the distance of sun planet?

    Paramahamsa: Sun planet is 93,000,000 miles.
    Ganesa: They say the moon planet is only 250,000 miles.
    Prabhupada: It is wrong thing.

    Paramahamsa: Is their calculation for the distance of the sun wrong also?
    Prabhupada: Yes.

    Paramahamsa: 93,000,000? It says in the Bhagavatam exactly what the distance?
    Prabhupada: The whole universe, diameter, is panchshat-koti-yojana. One yojana equal to eight miles, and one koti is ten miles, er, ten million. So panchashata, fifty into 10,000,000 into eight.

    Paramahamsa: Yeah. So it's fifty crores yojana. Fifty crores yojanas?
    Prabhupada: Yes, fifty crore yojanas, panchashat. So one yojana equal to eight miles, one crore equal to ten million.
    Paramahamsa: That's eighty million.

    Prabhupada: Hmm?
    Paramahamsa: Eighty million times fifty.
    Prabhupada: Yes.
    Paramahamsa: Means 400,000,000
    Srutakirti: Hmm. More than that. Four billion.
    Paramahamsa: Four thousand million, which is four billion?
    Srutakirti: Four billion miles.
    Paramahamsa: Four billion miles is the diameter.
    Prabhupada: Is the diameter.
    Paramahamsa: You gave that in The Teachings of Lord Chaitanya also.
    Prabhupada: Yes. And the sun is in the middle.
    Paramahamsa: So two billion miles from the edge of the universe.
    Prabhupada: Yes. And they say? 93,000,000.

    Devotee (2): Did they actually land on the moon, Srila Prabhupada?
    Prabhupada: No, they cannot go there. What is the question of landing? They cannot go there. It is far, far away. What you calculated? 1,600,000 miles away, up the sun planet. 1,600,000 miles above the sun. According to your calculation, the sun is away from this planet by 93,000,000 miles. And above that, 1,600,000 miles. Then you go to the moon. How it is possible?
    Guru krpa: How is the moon behind the sun?
    Prabhupada: Not behind, above.
    (ACBSP. 27th May 1975. Morning Walk in Honolulu, Hawaii.)​

    Moon Landing Hoax, Nasa Space Shuttle, Apollo
     
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  13. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    :facepalm: There is no "above" in space.
     
  14. TenjikuZero

    TenjikuZero Advaitin

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    The Sad part is that Ancient Indian astronomers and scientists already knew that the world revolved and also rotated around the sun(like other planets).

    They would have died of shame to hear such stupid statements from some of their descendants 2000 years later.
     
  15. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Indeed. The ancients were very knowledgeable about the stars.
     
  16. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    I don't see any evidence for heliocentricism until Aryabhatta(500AD) but then after Aryabhatta many astronomers flourished that accepted heliocentricism and the Earth rotated on its axis. There are some curious references within the Vedas to what sounds like heliocentricism, but the references are vague and can be interpreted in many ways e.g., a curious reference of how it is day one one side of the earth and night on another, the never sun never sets or rises or Vedic hymns of how the sun strings all the planets along.

    In any case yeah the astronomical systems that flourished post Aryabhatta were impressive and advanced, and before which this Puranic nonsensical astronomy is laughable.

    Why do you think I am so against these Puranas? It is is obvious these Puranas are composed by scientifically illiterate people. Hindus should not accept them as scripture, but rather as only story books containing myths and legends and as socio-historical texts to understand the development of Indian history, culture, arts and mythos.
     
  17. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    Then you're not really against the Puranas themselves, but rather one of the ways in which they're used. :p
     
  18. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    I am against Puranas and the religions that have formed from them and the religious madness that has ensued :p

    We should all return to our New Testimant the Upanishads. Our practice should be Raja Yoga(meditation) Hinduism really is just a religion of pure spirituality focusing on self-development. We must become God/s, not worship god/s :p
     
  19. Riverwolf

    Riverwolf Amateur Rambler / Proud Ergi
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    So... you don't want the Puranas to exist?
     
  20. Surya Deva

    Surya Deva Well-Known Member

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    No, because they do exist, rather I want them to be put into proper context and not regarded as our scripture and this is turn means the various religions that they have given birth to should be rejected. We should should return back to the Upanishads and what they teach. And indeed what they teach is Advaita.
    I have not yet seen single interpretation from non-Advaita traditions of the Upanishads that is actually supported in the text.
     
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