Ask YmirGF anything about his views about mysticism

[YmirGF]

I thought this might prove to be an interesting alternative to Sunstone's very good thread. Each of us has differing views of reality and so this thread might serve as a springboard for others to create their own "Ask <insert name> here about their view of mysticism".

Part of the reason for doing this thread is that there are areas I fully agree with Sunstone and yet other areas that there are marked contrasts in our viewpoints. Now, I don't want this to become a "well Sunstone said this, so what do you think". Though the odd one might be evocative.

What are my qualifications to answer any question on Mysticism? From a scholastic viewpoint, I have none. Zero. Zip. However, from a subjective viewpoint I have 34 years of personal mystical experience to draw on. Decades ago, I thought I had experienced everything there was to experience, as I left the books and writing of others in the dust. My experience extends to this very nanosecond, as I write, listening to the birds singing outside, and seeing the trees swathed in mist, backlit by faint sunlight in a rather wonderful manner.

So... have at 'er. I will be happy to answer any questions at all, time permitting, of course.

*Release the hounds*

 

[Sunstone]

I think your thread is an excellent idea, Paul. The more views, the merrier!

 

[YmirGF]

I think your thread is an excellent idea, Paul. The more views, the merrier!

My thoughts exactly, SunnyPhil. I think the answers, depending on participation, of course, will really flesh out the thinking of "modern" mystics, in general.

 

[Magic Man]

First off, what is your definition of a mystical experience?

 

[Ringer]

Are dreams considered mystical experiences?

Is it possible for a person to fail at being a mystic?

If I recall correctly, you had a theistic experience some years back. Is this something you attempt to recreate regularly and if so, have you been successful?

According to my limited knowledge of mysticism, I believe that many of the world's major religions have an element of mysticism to them. Do you feel that any of these religion's element of mysticism jive with your particular experiences?

Hopefully I'll have more questions to come. Pardon my ignorance and feel free to dismiss any of the questions if you so choose.

 

[Hema]

I had a couple out of body experiences and sometimes when I sense that I'm about to have one I get scared and force myself out of it. I'm afraid that I might encounter a spirit or something. How can I overcome this fear? Also what's the easiet way to have a safe and comfortable out of body experience?

Thanks in advance. Namaste.

 

[YmirGF]

First off, what is your definition of a mystical experience?

This is a more interesting question than it seems at first glance. Originally my brain started frothing about any experience beyond the five ordinary senses, but then, physical events can act as catalytic agents for a &#8220;deeper&#8221; experience of physical reality. So, by default, I am going to say that &#8220;mystical&#8221; experience is an enhanced experience of ordinary reality as well as the direct experience of what can be termed &#8220;non-ordinary reality&#8221;.

To my thinking and in my experience, mundane ordinary experiences can result in a catharsis of varying degrees. Theoretically, it is possible to have a mystical experience by sniffing a glass of wine or listening to the radio as these experiences are not the sole province of deep meditation.

The common link would seem to be in the attitudes and openness of the individual to their experience, as the connections between subject/object orientations at first stand out in heightened contrast while subsequent exposure to this kind of perception subject/object orientations begin to blur. The universe becomes both much more complex, on one level, and considerably simpler, on another level, when one begins to understand their universe as the product of idea construction.

Another common feature is that such mystic experiences almost always have an emotional element to them. &#8220;Feeling&#8221;, though not in the conventional sense, is a primary area of focus. I think this is probably why most that experience mystical experiences are driven to believe in their inherent reality. The idea being, the individual is often struck by is the distinct &#8220;feeling&#8221; (in the case &#8220;surety&#8221 of how could something that feels so right, possibly be wrong.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

How do your experiences with mysticism affect your thoughts on the subject/object duality? (Or just dualism in general?)

I've read in other posts that you've experimented with mind-altering drugs. What role do you think they play in mystical experience?

 

[YmirGF]

Are dreams considered mystical experiences?

That is a good question, Ringer. In and of themselves, dreams are not mystical experiences ordinarily. This is not to say that they cannot become valid mystical experiences. I think almost everyone will agree that their dreams fall into various categories. There is the common oddball stuff that doesn’t seem terribly meaningful, but can become quite entertaining to anyone who studies their dreams. The second types of dreams are what I call “super real” dreams simply because the dreamer can usually remember such dreams years after the event, with little effort. These dreams have an odd quality that imbeds them into our waking consciousness and so these dreams can be said to have an element of “mystical experience” to them in that they have a distinct tendency towards a heightened sense of perception found while within the dream state itself.

Is it possible for a person to fail at being a mystic?

Short term, yes; long term, no. It is possible that one can become fixated on absolutes that will “hold them back”, for a time. Normally, however, it is my perception that all will eventually get “past” these self-created roadblocks on their “path”. That realization may not come before a given lifetime is terminated however. To answer your question from an ordinary human perspective, the answer would appear to be “yes”, as a given personality could continue with their fixations ‘till their dying day. So, from the single lifetime perspective, the answer would be “yes”; but from reincarnational viewpoint, the answer is a resounding “no”.

If I recall correctly, you had a theistic experience some years back. Is this something you attempt to recreate regularly and if so, have you been successful?

This one is a loaded question, to be sure. There is, in fact, a timeless element to this type of vision or a vision of this intensity. Since this vision took place outside time and space, as we know it, part of me is still there within that vision, eternally basking, as it were.

Other aspects of me have grown from the experience and in some terms, well beyond it. The realization that one is still viewing a subject/object distinction allows one to conclude that ultimately one is viewing their own projection, however ornate. You could say that it is one of my fondest creations, to date, but in other ways it still stands as an objectification of what I do not presently know, all rolled into a single, multidimensional being. Part of the “problem” with Oneness Theory is that if we are indeed all aspects of the same being, then we have an answer as to who “we” are. There is one glaring answer but most human animals have difficulty with accepting the conclusion.

According to my limited knowledge of mysticism, I believe that many of the world's major religions have an element of mysticism to them. Do you feel that any of these religion's element of mysticism jive with your particular experiences?

All religions contain kernels of what I perceive, however, in my judgment; none have the capacity to deliver on their esteemed promises any longer. As I opined awhile back, “All have their crumbs, but their loaves, turned to dust, long ago.”

I will admit that I am heavily influenced by some religions, particularly Buddhism/Taoism/Zen and Hinduism. In reality, I have expanded on many of their central themes and in some cases adopted stances that are at odds with popular opinion, simply because my direct experience tells me otherwise.

Hopefully I'll have more questions to come. Pardon my ignorance and feel free to dismiss any of the questions if you so choose.

The only question worthy of dismissal is the question that is never asked. I hope my partial answers result in more great questions. Thank you for the opportunity to discuss them.

 

[YmirGF]

I had a couple out of body experiences and sometimes when I sense that I'm about to have one I get scared and force myself out of it. I'm afraid that I might encounter a spirit or something. How can I overcome this fear? Also what's the easiest way to have a safe and comfortable out of body experience?

Dear Fellow Traveler,

I know precisely what you mean, as I have encountered it myself, though for radically different reasons. For example, I do not buy into the idea of encountering &#8220;spirits&#8221; that have any &#8220;real&#8221; control over me and so, that is not a part of my personal reality.

My guess and experience is that it is an automatic bodily response to physically the based entity that is learning to go beyond the confines of the flesh. Since we are currently flesh based, our body itself inhibits us much like a child who is over attached to its mother and just will not let go. If you reassure your physical self that all is for its benefit, it might be less hesitant to go along, in a matter of speaking.

In my own experience I have had to simply give the body the assurance that I won&#8217;t forget it and I will be back. My body seems &#8220;good&#8221; with that. It knows I am embarking on radically different aspects of reality that could possibly enrich the human experience, so it doesn&#8217;t feel so left out and understands the purpose of these endeavors.
This likely will sound very odd to the uninitiated person who has never had an out-of-body experience, but during such experiences, one instantly realizes that &#8220;they&#8221; are a bit more than their Earthly body, and therefore, the sensation of &#8220;self&#8221; automatically expands.

In short, dear Hema, it is your fear that acts as an elastic binding you to your body. You must understand that there is nothing &#8220;bad&#8221; that you will encounter. There simply isn&#8217;t. This is not to say you might never come across something that is psychologically &#8220;disturbing&#8221;, but you must understand that ultimately, as it is YOUR experience, you as the creator of the experience hold the &#8220;trump card&#8221;. You can end an out-of-body experience, at any time, if you become overwhelmed for any reason, as at first, that is precisely what happens to the normal individual.

What is the easiest way to get past this &#8220;liftoff problem? Clearly, you must examine and confront what it is you fear. I have stated several times over the years that if the individual implicitly believes in malevolent spirits and demons, they are simply not ready for this kind of adventure and should not actively seek them. The reason for this is that they will carry their fears into subtler realms of existence and quite possibly precipitate their most dreaded fears. Due to the tremendous power of the imagination, under such conditions, I would not recommend this type of experience for people who believe in such beings. The old adage of &#8220;Be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it!&#8221; comes to mind.

I hope this helps in some small way, dear Hema. Namaste.

 

[YmirGF]

How do your experiences with mysticism affect your thoughts on the subject/object duality? (Or just dualism in general?)

I suppose the most obvious thing is that I see duality for what it is and recognize opposites as being complimentary aspects rather than aspects at odds with each other. I tend to accept experience, as is, rather than ponder negative and positive, as they are simply relative viewpoints.

I've read in other posts that you've experimented with mind-altering drugs. What role do you think they play in mystical experience?

That is correct, though the RF rulebook precludes me from saying very much about this subject and can walk the tightrope for a ways, at the very least. First off, I would never suggest or support people in their use of "external agents" to get in touch with their larger reality. That being said, I would neither dissuade them from using them either, but would state that there is a cost to such excursions. Attitude, setting, preparation and expectation are key elements at play here and "external agents" have a tendency to overwhelm the psyche. The psyche responds, of its own accord in order to minimize the harm, but that in itself can be shocking to those who are not quite ready for such experiences. Anyone who have a strong believe in good and evil, demons, malevolent spirits OR possess inordinately strong fears is not advised to consider such experiments. I was very lucky, as were many others, however, as I say, there can be a rather significant cost to these experiments if one does not use extreme caution. Given that one is potentially playing with their own continued sanity, one should use extreme caution when considering the use of said "external agents" and not take their use lightly. It isn't a game, so it is best not to treat these experiences as such.

In my own experience, I used them as a springboard and dispensed with their use altogether in 1977. I think that they have a distinct part in mystical experience, especially if one does not have the slightest preconceived notions about what is possible under such circumstances. Ultimately, they should only be used as a psychological lubricant, if you will. Once one "gets the picture" one no longer needs to rely on external agents and can begin interfacing with internal elements of the psyche "head on". In some ways, they only act as amplifiers and as said, once the individual knows what is being amplified, they need only learn to focus their awareness using more natural means, such as meditation.

Such "external agents" should never be relied on, after they have served their purpose as one can become somewhat addicted to the experience itself without learning the simply fact that one doesn't really need the "external agent" to begin with.

(Hopefully that clearly explains things and will make the RF censors somewhat appeased.)

Why one might want to use "external agents" is not quite so simple to explain without coming off as an outright endorsement... and we know what they did to Timothy Leary for doing just that. I cannot support Timothy Leary, in the slightest, as I deem that he did, in fact, become addicted to the experience itself but I am inclined to support meaningful research into "external agents" under the right conditions by accredited scientists/behavioral psychologists.

 

[YmirGF]

100 views... and so few questions... C'mon folks... Ask away.

 

[YmirGF]

I suppose no one is really interested after all. Oh well.

 

[Troublemane]

Hey YmirGF---I was wondering about your views of the "astral plane", and so forth. Do you think there really is an astral or etheric world that coexists with the phenomenal world, or is it just a projection of our internally experienced/personal-imaginal realms?

 

[Fluffy]

I'm very interested YmirGF. As you may be aware, there is a strong interest in this area amongst many atheists these days so I'm sure more will pop along soon. Just about all of my favourite writers and speakers have touched on this subject at one point or another and yet I know very little about it. I would love to know more.

This is a more interesting question than it seems at first glance. Originally my brain started frothing about any experience beyond the five ordinary senses, but then, physical events can act as catalytic agents for a &#8220;deeper&#8221; experience of physical reality. So, by default, I am going to say that &#8220;mystical&#8221; experience is an enhanced experience of ordinary reality as well as the direct experience of what can be termed &#8220;non-ordinary reality&#8221;.

How are experiences beyond the five ordinary senses detected? Are they detected by something which could adequately termed a sense? If so, would this sense differ from hearing in the same way that hearing differs from sight (or touch from taste e.t.c.) or is there a more significant difference than this?

Is non-ordinary reality entirely non-physical? If so, what is it exactly? Would you consider it to be a mental reality? Could this reality be reduced to physical terms (for example, the mind is quite often equated to the brain by some philosophers even though mental constructs still feature in their philosophy e.g. memes) or is it actually separate?

To my thinking and in my experience, mundane ordinary experiences can result in a catharsis of varying degrees. Theoretically, it is possible to have a mystical experience by sniffing a glass of wine or listening to the radio as these experiences are not the sole province of deep meditation.

Catharsis is something that I have often experienced but not thought of in mystical terms before. Is there some difference between this catharsis and the catharsis that you are speaking of?

For example, this is a 19 minute lecture in which brain scientist Jill Bolte Taylor recounts her experience of having a stroke and the effect which it had on her. This seems to be quite similar to the phenomena that you are talking about especially your subsequent description of the strong emotional content, attitude and openess of the individual and subject/object blurring (she became part of her shower wall!)

In fact if you haven't already seen it, I strongly suggest you watch the video as I think you will enjoy it.

 

[Hema]

Dear Fellow Traveler,

I know precisely what you mean, as I have encountered it myself, though for radically different reasons. For example, I do not buy into the idea of encountering &#8220;spirits&#8221; that have any &#8220;real&#8221; control over me and so, that is not a part of my personal reality.

My guess and experience is that it is an automatic bodily response to physically the based entity that is learning to go beyond the confines of the flesh. Since we are currently flesh based, our body itself inhibits us much like a child who is over attached to its mother and just will not let go. If you reassure your physical self that all is for its benefit, it might be less hesitant to go along, in a matter of speaking.

In my own experience I have had to simply give the body the assurance that I won&#8217;t forget it and I will be back. My body seems &#8220;good&#8221; with that. It knows I am embarking on radically different aspects of reality that could possibly enrich the human experience, so it doesn&#8217;t feel so left out and understands the purpose of these endeavors.
This likely will sound very odd to the uninitiated person who has never had an out-of-body experience, but during such experiences, one instantly realizes that &#8220;they&#8221; are a bit more than their Earthly body, and therefore, the sensation of &#8220;self&#8221; automatically expands.

In short, dear Hema, it is your fear that acts as an elastic binding you to your body. You must understand that there is nothing &#8220;bad&#8221; that you will encounter. There simply isn&#8217;t. This is not to say you might never come across something that is psychologically &#8220;disturbing&#8221;, but you must understand that ultimately, as it is YOUR experience, you as the creator of the experience hold the &#8220;trump card&#8221;. You can end an out-of-body experience, at any time, if you become overwhelmed for any reason, as at first, that is precisely what happens to the normal individual.

What is the easiest way to get past this &#8220;liftoff problem? Clearly, you must examine and confront what it is you fear. I have stated several times over the years that if the individual implicitly believes in malevolent spirits and demons, they are simply not ready for this kind of adventure and should not actively seek them. The reason for this is that they will carry their fears into subtler realms of existence and quite possibly precipitate their most dreaded fears. Due to the tremendous power of the imagination, under such conditions, I would not recommend this type of experience for people who believe in such beings. The old adage of &#8220;Be careful of what you wish for because you just might get it!&#8221; comes to mind.

I hope this helps in some small way, dear Hema. Namaste.

Thank you so much. Someone once told me that I must "know" that I am protected. Only when I fear something I can attract the object of fear to me.

I do believe in evil spirits but at the same time I believe that nothing can harm me when God is protecting me.

Sometimes I am afraid but other times I wish that I can inititate an OBE...sometimes I feel confident. Can you have an OBE willingly or does it happen involuntarily? Do you know any techniques that can initiate an OBE?

Thanks again.

 

[YmirGF]

Hey YmirGF---I was wondering about your views of the "astral plane", and so forth. Do you think there really is an astral or etheric world that coexists with the phenomenal world, or is it just a projection of our internally experienced/personal-imaginal realms?

I am not real big on terms such as "astral" or "etheric" due to the quakery that dogs those two descriptors. I much rather refer to other dimensions of reality and let the user fill in their own conceptions of what I might mean. I don't like to hem myself in due to the last part of your question. I am perfectly aware that others will see things slightly differently, given their own understanding and to an extent, their expectations, so I feel it is unfair of me to maintain the notion that my symbols are somehow all-inclusive. For lack of a better description, other dimensions will faithfully mirror the predilections of the individual. What I am trying to say is that every individual will look at different dimensions of reality in their own way and will tend to focus on aspects relative to themselves.
:thud:

 

[Jeremy Mason]

Have you heard about Edgar Casey?

 

[YmirGF]

Thank you so much. Someone once told me that I must "know" that I am protected. Only when I fear something I can attract the object of fear to me.

That is an interesting way of looking at it Hema, however by saying you are "protected" reinforces the idea that there are elements that you need protection from. In that regard, the advice is not especially helpful, no matter how well-meaning.

I do believe in evil spirits but at the same time I believe that nothing can harm me when God is protecting me.

That sounds all well and good, but once again, it merely reinforces the idea that you need protection to begin with. You don not have to face all your fears, but you do have to decide once and for all if you are going to let "evil" forces influence your thinking. Do they serve you well or are they perhaps just psychological "extra" baggage?

Sometimes I am afraid but other times I wish that I can inititate an OBE...sometimes I feel confident.

It does take a bit of concentration. Given that you leave your body, for short periods at night when you sleep, are you afraid to go asleep?

Can you have an OBE willingly or does it happen involuntarily?

At first, it is usually involuntary, although, curiously, it never happens when you have something of importance to do. Each time I had a seemingly "involuntary" experience, I always had a few hours to kill and return.

Do you know any techniques that can initiate an OBE?

Yes, I do, Hema. One that I would suggest is to try it while dreaming. Give yourself a very clear autosuggestion (write it down, if need be) before you fall asleep. Do this for a period of 2 weeks (14 days). If nothing has happened during that time, simply forget about it and let "nature" take its course. You might want to PM MysticSang'ha about this method, as I can assure you, that most of the time it will work.

A good "working" autosuggestion could be as simple as, "I will have a problem free out of body experience and remember all that takes place." Try it! Maybe after a few problem free encounters those nasty evil spirits will have less meaning for you.

Thanks again.

Keep me posted, if you decide to try this. I'd love to hear about any results.

 

[YmirGF]

In fact if you haven't already seen it, I strongly suggest you watch the video as I think you will enjoy it.

I watched it. WOW! Wonderful stuff. I'll be back to your post in a wee bit. (I have already sent the URL to about 8 other people now. Thanks so much.