Ask the Staff Anything About RF

[Rick O'Shez]

The DIR's are spaces set aside for specific groups to converse without those things, and the Same-Faith Debate section is the place for us to argue amongst ourselves.

I do get the idea of DIRs as safe-spaces, however it does trouble me that debate isn't allowed. It also troubles me that members who don't self-identify as being part of a particular DIR don't feel welcome there.

 

[Tarheeler]

I do get the idea of DIRs as safe-spaces, however it does trouble me that debate isn't allowed. It also troubles me that members who don't self-identify as being part of a particular DIR don't feel welcome there.

I can't help you there. You're not the first person who hasn't liked it, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

The DIR's are designed to be safe havens for the members of the respective religions, and the history of the forum show it is both a needed and a benificial feature. You have the rest of the forum to play in.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

I can't help you there. You're not the first person who hasn't liked it, and I'm sure you won't be the last.

This reminds me of an old British joke:
Customer in shop: Have you got so-and-so?
Shop-keeper: No, we don't get much demand for that....you're the fifth person who's asked about it today.

I'm really just trying to give you people some constructive feedback, maybe you could accept it gracefully instead of circling the wagons?

 

[Tarheeler]

I'm really just trying to give you people some constructive feedback, maybe you could accept it gracefully instead of circling the wagons?

It was decided long ago that the DIR's were here and staying.
The majority of both staff and members here find them to be a good thing, and we're generally going to lean towards the opinions of the people who use DIR's when making decisions about them.

You said you didn't know what their purpose was, and now you're saying you don't like them.

You've given us your opinion, but that doesn't mean we're going change the nature of the forum to suit you.

 

[Rick O'Shez]

You've given us your opinion, but that doesn't mean we're going change the nature of the forum to suit you.

That wasn't why I provided my opinion. Stop circling the wagons and listen.

 

[4consideration]

I think the difference would become quickly apparent. To me the no-debate rule for DIRs doesn't make a lot of sense and needs rethinking.

I still haven't got a clear sense of what DIRs are really for. What, essentially, is their purpose?

(I know I said I'd stop responding in this thread, but since this is a direct question to me I'm going to say how I see it.)

Originally when I joined RF, I didn't see the value in DIRs, since there are rarely times I think it's ok for me to post in them. I later saw DIRs differently, after being a Moderator.

This is my understanding of the situation. It is possible it differs from the current staff perspective:

I think RF has the bases pretty well covered for types of debates and discussions, so I see it mostly as a matter of where one is posting, not whether or not one gets to have the types of discussion one might want.

Most of the forum is open for debate, so anything one might want to debate that is discussed in a DIR can be discussed in a debate thread.

However, (I think this is often the crux of the issue when someone is bothered by DIR rules) one may not force someone else into a debate the person did not agree to. This can feel frustrating at times.

One can't quote someone from a DIR discussion and attempt to discredit their statements or demand they back it up in a debate. But, one can begin a debate on the general topic in the Religious Debates section -- without appearing to be calling out that other member. There is nothing about RF rules that obligates another member to participate in a debate, if all they wish to do is participate in discussions -- so there's no guarantee the parties of a DIR conversation will want to participate in some one else's debate thread on the same, or similar, subject. We have members here who express their sole interest in being here is for discussions with like-minded people, and that they have no interest in debate on their beliefs. To allow debate in DIRs would drive those members away and, IMO, cut a huge chunk out of what I understand to be valuable about RF.

My understanding of the purpose of the DIRs is (as a safe space) and mainly to function along the same lines as a church, temple, meeting place of that group -- for people around the world to have a get-together location, where they don't have to back up their beliefs for outsiders, and can simply discuss the details of those beliefs.

I think of it like a long street with churches, temples, mosques, meeting places where one may observe the conversations of different groups. The objections and opinions of outsiders have no place there. I think it's a social faux pas to attempt to debate in a DIR, similar behavior to:

1. A Christian going into an Atheists group meeting, and attempting to preach and save souls.

2. An Atheist interrupting a church meeting with demands for proof of God, and challenging the theology.

It's just an inappropriate place for those sorts of things. One may ask respectful questions, but if the intent is not really respectful, common courtesy would require that one keep one's mouth shut.

 

[savagewind]

People are allowed to come here to tell me what I ought to believe but when I ask a question I am ignored about 99.9 % of the time.
Then it seems to be that they are here to evangelize me to their way of thinking. I think that someone who ignores all questions for debate
make my stay here not worth anything. Why are they allowed to stay when they only talk about what I can read in their magazines?

 

[Quagmire]

People are allowed to come here to tell me what I ought to believe

No they're not. That would be a rule 8 violation. People can tell you what they believe, why they believe it, why they disagree with your beliefs, etc., but telling other people what to believe, or what the consequences are of they're not believing what they believe is against the rules.

but when I ask a question I am ignored about 99.9 % of the time.

Well, we can't make a rule demanding that people answer other people's questions.

Then it seems to be that they are here to evangelize me to their way of thinking.

Again, that would be a rule 8 violation. And if it became clear that that was their only reason for being here, it would also be a rule 9 violation.

I think that someone who ignores all questions for debate
make my stay here not worth anything. Why are they allowed to stay when they only talk about what I can read in their magazines?

Not sure what you're asking here. All I can say is, it might help if you were to go and read the rules (and feel free to ask any questions if something is unclear) and report anyone who's braking them, especially if they're followin you around the forums doing it.

 

[savagewind]

No they're not. That would be a rule 8 violation. People can tell you what they believe, why they believe it, why they disagree with your beliefs, etc., but telling other people what to believe, or what the consequences are of they're not believing what they believe is against the rules.



Well, we can't make a rule demanding that people answer other people's questions.



Again, that would be a rule 8 violation. And if it became clear that that was their only reason for being here, it would also be a rule 9 violation.



Not sure what you're asking here. All I can say is, it might help if you were to go and read the rules (and feel free to ask any questions if something is unclear) and report anyone who's braking them, especially if they're followin you around the forums doing it.

I was a JW and only JWs know what is in their magazines so of course I can't prove it. I have read twenty years of Watchtower. They are posting what the Watchtower says. Every time I ask the JWs to please consider an alternate meaning they ignore me. Every time. So why won't they talk about anything but what is in the Watchtower? The fact that they won't proves to me that they are here just to advertise the Watchtower. It doesn't matter much. Nobody else will talk to me either most of the time.

I was blowing steam. Sometimes I think it would be nice of me to donate to the forum. But for what I ask myself. I can talk to myself at home alone.

 

[Quagmire]

This reminds me of an old British joke:
Customer in shop: Have you got so-and-so?
Shop-keeper: No, we don't get much demand for that....you're the fifth person who's asked about it today.

I'm really just trying to give you people some constructive feedback, maybe you could accept it gracefully instead of circling the wagons?

On the other hand, I'm guessing that if 5 people walked into a Chinese restaurant demanding burritos, the owner would probably direct them all to the Mexican restaurant across the street. If a 6th or 7th person came in doing the same thing, I would bet he'd still point to the place across the street. Especially if his restaurant is already filled to capacity with people who actually bothered to read the sign.

On the other hand, if his place was empty day after day, except for people comeing in demanding burritos, he might want to think about changing his menu. But that doesn't seem to be the situation we have here as far as the DIRs go.

 

[savagewind]

What I mean is that the JWs are not here to discuss but to tell. It is against their religion to entertain anything but what their gb allows.
They are not here for discussion. So, why are they here?
Forum: a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
Exchange means to go both ways.
Discussion: the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

It is also against forum rules to have two accounts here at the same time. Is it not?

 

[Debater Slayer]

What I mean is that the JWs are not here to discuss but to tell.

The above statement, which is stated as a fact rather than belief, may well qualify as a Rule 9 and/or Rule 3 violation.

It is against their religion to entertain anything but what their gb allows.

The above statement, which is also stated as fact rather than belief, may well qualify as a Rule 8 violation (preaching against a religion).

They are not here for discussion. So, why are they here?

Another statement that may well qualify as a Rule 9 and/or Rule 3 violation.

Forum: a place, meeting, or medium where ideas and views on a particular issue can be exchanged.
Exchange means to go both ways.
Discussion: the action or process of talking about something, typically in order to reach a decision or to exchange ideas.

Yes, exchange, which is different from what your first three statements in this post are.

It is also against forum rules to have two accounts here at the same time. Is it not?

Yes, and so is indirectly attacking other members.

Honestly, Savagewind, you know better than this. I like you, and I know you're well-meaning, so please take some time to re-read the rules and feel free to ask in Site Feedback if you have any questions about them.

 

[savagewind]

The point that I was trying to make by posting in this thread is they WON'T discuss in a discussion place. I have asked questions of them 1000 times or more and they not ONCE answered me any of them. Was I suppose to report all the non-answers?

Daddy! DADDY! Tug, tug, they are IGNORING me! Make them stop!

 

[Debater Slayer]

The point that I was trying to make by posting in this thread is they WON'T discuss in a discussion place. I have asked questions of them 1000 times or more and they not ONCE answered me any of them. Was I suppose to report all the non-answers?

Daddy! DADDY! Tug, tug, they are IGNORING me! Make them stop!

I think the best thing you can do about this is start a Site Feedback thread discussing it—and please keep in mind that we can only discuss your suggestions, not other members, with you.

 

[occams.rzr]

Hello and welcome to RF, new members!

This thread is for you to ask the mods anything about RF. This can include questions about the rules, the forum history, or the different forums in general.

A note for all members: Please keep in mind that only staff members may answer questions in this thread. Any answers by non-staff members will be deleted.

Thank you,

Debater Slayer, on behalf of the RF staff.

Was this based off of Christian Forums or was it vice-versa?

 

[crossfire]

Why does the Games/Pics/Jokes/Stories forum have sticky threads at the top which haven't been posted to in years?

Report the thread, and then in the comments section, type "unsticky old thread please." Then when we get staff consensus, one of the mods can do it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Report the thread, and then in the comments section, type "unsticky old thread please." Then when we get staff consensus, one of the mods can do it.

Or I can go ahead and unsticky them at will.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Was this based off of Christian Forums or was it vice-versa?

I don't know if @Rex intended RF to be based on any other forum. I doubt he wanted to copy anyone, though. (He is free to correct me if I'm wrong.)

 

[Revoltingest]

Report the thread, and then in the comments section, type "unsticky old thread please." Then when we get staff consensus, one of the mods can do it.

It was just a question about something odd.
I presume staff have their reasons for things,
& they'll do what they do.

 

[Madhuri]

It was just a question about something odd.
I presume staff have their reasons for things,
& they'll do what they do.

Either because we've forgotten about them or because they are very popular ongoing threads. The Post Your Pics thread/s are good as stickies because people might otherwise create multiple threads for the same purpose.