Ask me stuff

[Harel13]

Have you had an opportunity to visit the 3,000+ year-old burial cave that was discovered a few months ago in a national park near Tel Aviv? If not, do you have plans to visit? If so, what were your impressions? I thought that was pretty exciting news when I first heard it.

Haven't been there, and unfortunately I don't know if it's worth going there now. The people who discovered the cave, professional archeologists, acted in a frankly naive manner by putting out the word on their discovery. They were not able to organize proper security for the cave and shortly after the discovery, it was looted. It's not the only burial cave on that beach, and there may be more caves there that have yet to be discovered, and looters probably have found them since.
Any archeologist worth his salt will admit that looters are better at finding ancient sites than archeologists.

Also, can you recommend an exciting book on Israeli archaeology for someone who isn't an archaeologist but is fascinated with discoveries from the past?

I'll get back to you on that one. But a couple of recommendations off the top of my head:
1. The New Encyclopedia of Archaeological Excavations in the Holy Land - Good, concise summaries of Israeli excavations until the 90s.
2. Excavating the Bible by Yitzhak Meitlis

 

[Heyo]

And then there are particularly special places in Israel, such as Jerusalem. I usually feel a certain elation coming to Jerusalem. Not something I can really explain. The elation grows the nearer I get to the area of the Temple Mount.

Maybe a mild form of Jerusalem syndrome - Wikipedia?
From your experience, is it real? I find it fascinating and puzzling that places can have such influences.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Haven't been there, and unfortunately I don't know if it's worth going there now. The people who discovered the cave, professional archeologists, acted in a frankly naive manner by putting out the word on their discovery. They were not able to organize proper security for the cave and shortly after the discovery, it was looted. It's not the only burial cave on that beach, and there may be more caves there that have yet to be discovered, and looters probably have found them since.
Any archeologist worth his salt will admit that looters are better at finding ancient sites than archeologists.

I'll get back to you on that one. But a couple of recommendations off the top of my head:
1. The New Encyclopedia of Archaeological Excavations in the Holy Land - Good, concise summaries of Israeli excavations until the 90s.
2. Excavating the Bible by Yitzhak Meitlis

Looters? Oh yikes, that's disappointing. I would have thought there had been some sort of security arranged when they announced their discovery. Between looters and the religious fanatics like ISIL who actively demolish ancient sites, we're losing so much of the past. I find it all heartbreaking.

Thanks for those book recommendations. Soon, all we'll have left are just the books about these places.

 

[Harel13]

Looters? Oh yikes, that's disappointing. I would have thought there had been some sort of security arranged when they announced their discovery.

Unfortunately both of the Israeli Antiquities departments don't have enough money for that stuff. If a site merits to become a national park, the national parks association will make sure it gets watched over. But that was a brand new site that had to be excavated, so it was definitely still under the jurisdiction of the antiquities authority.
So, no money. If you want to keep something like that in your clutches, experience has to taught that your strongest weapon is gonna have to be "mum's the word". You know, instead of putting out an excited whatsapp video and passing it around the world.

Between looters and the religious fanatics like ISIL who actively demolish ancient sites, we're losing so much of the past. I find it all heartbreaking.

Yes, I agree.

Thanks for those book recommendations. Soon, all we'll have left are just the books about these places.

I don't think it will be that soon, but you're welcome.

 

[Rachel Rugelach]

Unfortunately both of the Israeli Antiquities departments don't have enough money for that stuff. If a site merits to become a national park, the national parks association will make sure it gets watched over. But that was a brand new site that had to be excavated, so it was definitely still under the jurisdiction of the antiquities authority.
So, no money. If you want to keep something like that in your clutches, experience has to taught that your strongest weapon is gonna have to be "mum's the word". You know, instead of putting out an excited whatsapp video and passing it around the world.

Do you know whether the Israeli Antiquities department has guest speakers here in the U.S. (specifically, the NYC/Long Island area) who will speak to Jewish groups in exchange for donations? My shul is always looking for guest speakers for the community dinners we host. I would like very much to support Israeli Antiquities in this way, if possible. I've personally hosted a guest speaker who is the founder of the Jewish Historical Society of Long Island.

 

[Harel13]

Do you know whether the Israeli Antiquities department has guest speakers here in the U.S. (specifically, the NYC/Long Island area) who will speak to Jewish groups in exchange for donations? My shul is always looking for guest speakers for the community dinners we host. I would like very much to support Israeli Antiquities in this way, if possible. I've personally hosted a guest speaker who is the founder of the Jewish Historical Society of Long Island.

I regret to say that I don't know, though the simplest solution to that is to contact the IAA. Here's their website:
https://www.antiquities.org.il/default_en.aspx

And here's an affiliate organization called Friends of the Israeli Antiquities Authority (FIAA), it might be (more?) relevant to contact them:
The Friends of the Israel Antiquities Authority

I also vaguely remember something along the lines of the Ir David Foundation, in charge of the excavations and tourism in the City of David, going out and giving lectures, so it might be worth contacting them, if you prefer hearing specifically about the excavations there:
One moment, please...

 

[Harel13]

I accidentally included in the other post my draft reply to you @Heyo. Here's my actual reply:

Maybe a mild form of Jerusalem syndrome - Wikipedia?

No. I feel perfectly sane. I don't have sudden urges to preach the truth or something like that. I think spirituality can be mysterious and not always fully explained by psychology.

From your experience, is it real? I find it fascinating and puzzling that places can have such influences.

I'm not really sure about this. What is "real"? I do feel a certain excitement going to Jerusalem, even though I've been there dozens of times in my life, and I do feel a certain sense of awe the nearer I get to the Temple Mount, which I've likewise been to many times in my life (the vicinity, I mean. I have never gone up to the Temple Mount itself).

 

[Alien826]

Yes, I am familiar with both ideas.
Regarding the shape of the tablets, it is brought in several Talmudic sources (for example, Bava Batra 14a) that each of the tablets was six hands in length and height and three hands in width, so when put together, they formed a cube.

Regarding the writing, that is likewise brought in Talmudic sources (for example, Shabbat 104a) , that the letters were hollow. There is a dispute there regarding whether the Hebrew letter Mem appeared both in its open version מ and in its closed version ם. If the closed version appeared, then the "filling" of the Mem hung in midair. The same is true regarding the letter Samekh ס, which only has a closed version.

Here's a model of the tablets according to Talmudic sources:

(from Hebrew Wikipedia)

Both interpretations are based on certain verses in the Torah. Regarding the shape, there's this verse:
"and they saw the God of Israel—under whose feet was the likeness of a brick of sapphire, like the very sky for purity." (Exodus 24:13)

Then God says to Moses:
"The LORD said to Moses, “Come up to Me on the mountain and wait there, and I will give you the stone tablets with the teachings and commandments which I have inscribed to instruct them.”"

The only type of stone mentioned in this chapter is sapphire, so it was suggested that the sapphire brick beneath God was the tablets. Perhaps block would be a better translation. The Hebrew word is simply לבנה, which can be understood either way.

Regarding the hollow letters, this is based on the following verse:
"Thereupon Moses turned and went down from the mountain bearing the two tablets of the Pact, tablets inscribed on both their surfaces: they were inscribed on the one side and on the other." (Exodus 32:15)

I personally see no reason not to accept these interpretations, considering the whole event was super miraculous, but my world wouldn't be thrown for a whirl if it turned out that these interpretations were not correct.

Great response, thanks.

The first verse is Exodus 24:10 I think.

I see how it can be interpreted that way. Here's God standing on a block of sapphire, then later he says he will give them "stones". It only needs to be changed to "these stones" to mean that. I suspect most people would expect the stones to be good old fashioned rock, given that people back then did carve letters in rock, that survives to this day.

The next verse is a bit more of a stretch imo, given that the most obvious interpretation is simply that both sides of the tablets were used. Read page 1, turn the tablet over, page 2. But I'm not here to debate these things, and you have given me exactly what I asked for.

With that said, often times ideas presented in various Talmudic sources are not intended to be taken at face value, so perhaps the sages did not mean that the tablets literally looked like this and were instead teaching a deeper, more profound idea. So to answer your last question, no, we should not understand all of the teachings of the rabbis literally.

Yes, that's pretty much exactly what Rabbi Rosenblatt said. Thanks again.

 

[Harel13]

The first verse is Exodus 24:10 I think.

Yep, my mistake. I'll fix that.

The next verse is a bit more of a stretch imo, given that the most obvious interpretation is simply that both sides of the tablets were used. Read page 1, turn the tablet over, page 2. But I'm not here to debate these things, and you have given me exactly what I asked for

Yes, it does seem so. Often such interpretations by the sages involve asking: Why was a particular uncommon word used instead of a more common term, or why were more words than necessary used or so forth, and then concluding that such things come to teach certain things. So this might be the case here.
Edit: It's possible that the rationale here is: God made these tablets. Couldn't He have made them the right size for the text to fit on one side? If the Torah says there's writing on both sides, this be a red flag teaching us that there was something extraordinary about the writing.