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Ask me anything about my religious beliefs

Brickjectivity

Turned to Stone. Now I stretch daily.
Staff member
Premium Member
Really... what does 'psychic' mean, anyway? It's such a generic term....
It would be possible to define it only if we knew how it worked, so the definition is limited to what we think it does: gives precognition, insight, draws attention to needful things preemptively, allows seeing something normally invisible, connects people mysteriously across distances and/or times. Anything in that soup is psychic.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Maybe the word objection is not a good word. The reason I use it, is because when I read the paragraph above, my brain stops on two parts. It stops on "being told what to do" and it stops on "God's Identity".

Being told what to do is not a problem, for making a peanut butter jelly sandwich. Ya know, it's just a sandwich. It needs bread, and peanut butter, and jelly. Done.

But that's not how I view life, it's a lot more than making a sandwich.

Here's another problem I have with "being told what to do". Sometimes, it makes matters worse. Sometimes it's best to relax and go with the flow.

Hmmm. "going with the flow" is what caused the Jews to execute their own Messiah. It is obvious to me that God has never been "mainstream". His people were not the most populous or the most militarily powerful nation and it was their vulnerability in that sense that made them appear to be easy targets for those nations who envied their beautiful land and wanted it for themselves. When God backed Israel, no one could defeat them. The "David and Goliath" struggle was seen time and again. What can we learn from this?

Its one of the things that I find most striking about God's dealings with Abraham's progeny. They were never to rely on their own wisdom or strength. If they did, God abandoned them to their enemies.
If he is our God, our Universal Sovereign, then we must treat him like he is with all due respect.

Regarding God's identity, because I believe that everything is God, a name is just a name.

"Everything is God" makes no logical sense to me. God is presented as an individual entity, not an obscure "something".
No one else has his name....and it is the only name he has, and will ever have because it is such an accurate description of his whole being. He can "be" whatever the situation calls for, always teaching us lessons about the different facets of his amazing wisdom and personality. His plans are always long range, but his worshippers have short lifespans....this can cause problems for impatient ones.

I am not seeking anything.

On the contrary, I feel that you are. Your threads by and large ask the questions of a seeker. Even if its just understanding you seek about what others believe. Nothing wrong with that of course. But perhaps there is a desire to come across something that sparks that certain unexplainable thing inside all of us that wants answers? A small spark can start a large fire. :)

When I said left behind, I was speaking about the "Kingdom" I hear about. I was speaking about it as if it is a real place and ignoring the metaphor.
Ah.... the "Kingdom"...probably the most misunderstood concept in Christendom.

From what you have gleaned, what do you envision the Kingdom to be exactly?
I am sure that you will find different concepts in all the Abrahamic faiths. But what do the scriptures tell us about this Kingdom, (which was the theme of Jesus' entire ministry)?

But using the word 'inherit'. I do not need any inheritance. I am happy with what I have now. It's enough. I'm grateful for all of this. I could die today perfectly happy. It's not that I don't have regrets. I would do so so many things differently. But, I don't need or want anything more.

Its funny you say that because with all those things that you would do differently, say in a different world with a completely different set of circumstances conducive to actually doing them successfully....if someone gave you the opportunity to redo them, with what you know now...would you welcome the opportunity, or would you decline it?

It's not repulsive, my friend. I believe that everyone is different. What brings life to you, could be deadly to me. I know that this is contrary to your beliefs, and I'm sorry to put it so bluntly.

I admire honesty....don't ever apologise. Everyone IS different and "viva la difference"! We are designed to be unique...every single one of us. Who could imagine that a basic frame and facial design could produce so many different presentations? The Creator obviously loves variety as seen everywhere in his creation. But along with that variety we see order.....pristine and beautiful order, which would be impossible if there was no pre-planned formula for its success. Nothing passes the order that God has put in place. We don't mind that because its a joy to behold.
But in giving humans the free will to make decisions, he also had to set limits for its exercise otherwise abuse would cause chaos. So, in order for free will to be a blessing rather than a curse, it had to be exercised withing the parameters set by God. Stepping outside those parameters would be a disaster, but free will had to be free. All God could do was make it illegal with a stiff penalty.

The humans made a choice to step outside of those parameters and brought the chaos that God knew would come. Showing us what would happen is better than just telling us apparently. This is the life we have now, thanks to an abuse of free will....and is this poor excuse for a life really enough for you? You are a caring and very nice-natured, family oriented man by all accounts.....If you could have a choice of this life, not only for yourself but your family as well, or a better one, with no sickness aging or death, and all it took was obedience to God's commands (which are never burdensome anyway IMO) would you knock it back?

Maybe you can go to God and it doesn't burn you up. But for me, for what ever reason. I need to stay closer to the earthly matters. Taking care of people, making them happy. Figuring out what they like to eat. And making it for them. Making people feel accepted, and loved, and safe. That's what i can do. Doing more than that, for what ever reason, I get burned, like, right away. Like getting a sunburn, but in my heart.

It is the "earthly matters" that God intended for us all along.....so do you really know what your options are?

This is the part where I say, I'm OK being left behind. The paradise, I'm OK with missing out on paradise. I am happy now, here. And as long as I can make other people happy. And do a little bit of good consistently each day. That works best for me.

What is your definition of paradise? What if paradise was just a nicer, trouble free version of what we have now...very earthly?
The Earth itself is a beautiful place (those untouched by human greed that is) Its only the corrupt humans misusing their free will to devalue the will of others that is causing the problems. God intends to remove all those who wish to impose their selfish or evil will on others. Would you oppose that?

When I first started my study of the scriptures, it was the condition of the dead, and the fact that God never designed humans to go to heaven that caught my attention. They were the sparks that ignited my fire and its been burning brighter ever since. The more I learn about our Creator and his purpose for us here, the more I appreciate what he is preserving for us in the future and the wisdom of the way he went about it...never to be threatened again, either in heaven (where rebellion started) or on Earth.

Jesus said that "few" would travel the "cramped and narrow road" to life...and its fairly obvious why. (Matthew 7:13-14)

I guess that is what "faith" is all about....we have to see the struggles as a journey, not a destination.
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
Hmmm. "going with the flow" is what caused the Jews to execute their own Messiah. It is obvious to me that God has never been "mainstream". His people were not the most populous or the most militarily powerful nation and it was their vulnerability in that sense that made them appear to be easy targets for those nations who envied their beautiful land and wanted it for themselves. When God backed Israel, no one could defeat them. The "David and Goliath" struggle was seen time and again. What can we learn from this?
I hear you, my friend. I was being very brief when I said "go with the flow". You are making a lot of good points.
Its one of the things that I find most striking about God's dealings with Abraham's progeny. They were never to rely on their own wisdom or strength. If they did, God abandoned them to their enemies.
If he is our God, our Universal Sovereign, then we must treat him like he is with all due respect.
Yes, I think that universal sovereign is a good description of 1 of the aspects of God. But I feel like there is more to God than this. A lot more actually. That is my belief. Maybe it is flawed.

To illustrate my belief, please consider: I don't want my kids to always treat me like I am the boss of their world. I **only** want that when it is absolutely necessary. On other occasions I prefer that they treat me like a normal person. I would rather invite God into my life, ask God to put it's feet up. take off it's shoes, and be my guest. I simply don't think that God desires to be idolized. Maybe in specific circumstances... yes. But not all the time. That is how I feel


"Everything is God" makes no logical sense to me. God is presented as an individual entity, not an obscure "something".
No one else has his name....and it is the only name he has, and will ever have because it is such an accurate description of his whole being. He can "be" whatever the situation calls for, always teaching us lessons about the different facets of his amazing wisdom and personality. His plans are always long range, but his worshipers have short lifespans....this can cause problems for impatient ones.
My friend... I just got stuck on "it is the only name he has". Genesis 1:1... Listen, I think there is tremendous value and usefulness to your approach in the right time, in the right place, for the right people. That is how I feel,
Ah.... the "Kingdom"...probably the most misunderstood concept in Christendom.

From what you have gleaned, what do you envision the Kingdom to be exactly?
I am sure that you will find different concepts in all the Abrahamic faiths. But what do the scriptures tell us about this Kingdom, (which was the theme of Jesus' entire ministry)?
Well. I am learning in "real-time" right now. I have never read the scripture ( as I told you ). And I was being honest about that. So, based on what you have said here in this thread. It is a paradise on earth, not in heaven? I was speaking in ignorance and filing in the blanks when I made the statement about the metaphorical kingdom. I guess, what I was communicating to you ( ahem, attempting to communicate ) is that reward holds very little incentive for me.

To further illustrate this...

I was talking to a friend who is a manager of a local Sprint-Store. We were joking around, and I told her, "Maybe I'll come work for you when I retire. Etc..." She asked me, "Can you sell?" And I said, "Sure, but I don't care about commission. If you tell me that I can earn $100 by selling 1 more phone, I don't care." She said, "You can't work for me then. Ha-ha". True Story :)
Its funny you say that because with all those things that you would do differently, say in a different world with a completely different set of circumstances conducive to actually doing them successfully....if someone gave you the opportunity to redo them, with what you know now...would you welcome the opportunity, or would you decline it?
It's hard to predict... but yeah. I guess I would do those things differently.
I admire honesty....don't ever apologize
This makes me very happy.... I say the same thing to my friends... :) I have now gone thru my reply and removed all the times I said, "forgive me" and "I'm sorry, my friend".
But in giving humans the free will to make decisions, he also had to set limits for its exercise otherwise abuse would cause chaos. So, in order for free will to be a blessing rather than a curse, it had to be exercised withing the parameters set by God. Stepping outside those parameters would be a disaster, but free will had to be free. All God could do was make it illegal with a stiff penalty.
OK. I agree with all of this. But I would only add 1 word. "Knowingly". I do not believe that God would apply a stiff penalty unless the individual knows the rule and knows the penalty. Not unless they know both intimately and completely. That is how I feel.

The humans made a choice to step outside of those parameters and brought the chaos that God knew would come. Showing us what would happen is better than just telling us apparently. This is the life we have now, thanks to an abuse of free will....and is this poor excuse for a life really enough for you? You are a caring and very nice-natured, family oriented man by all accounts.....If you could have a choice of this life, not only for yourself but your family as well, or a better one, with no sickness aging or death, and all it took was obedience to God's commands (which are never burdensome anyway IMO) would you knock it back?

Struggle is God's Way of Strengthening. I believe that God wants each of us to walk our own path live our own life succeed or fail in our own individual way. The incentive of no sickness or death is not appealing to me. That is not how I am made. I do not care about the reward. I care about the journey. The journey is the reward. Sickness and death, is part of it. It gives life value. The struggle and the pain.. it has purpose. That is how I feel.

Skip to 1 minute, I think... "Struggle is ... strengthening".


It is the "earthly matters" that God intended for us all along.....so do you really know what your options are?
The simple answer is, as I said before, I know nothing.

What is your definition of paradise? What if paradise was just a nicer, trouble free version of what we have now...very earthly?
The Earth itself is a beautiful place (those untouched by human greed that is) Its only the corrupt humans misusing their free will to devalue the will of others that is causing the problems. God intends to remove all those who wish to impose their selfish or evil will on others. Would you oppose that?

I just don't see people in terms of "selfish" or "evil". All people can behave in a selfish manner. All people behave in a manner which, arguably, can be described as evil. So, the idea of "removing those who wish to impose..." is not at all appealing to me. For practical reasons, and for moral reasons.
When I first started my study of the scriptures, it was the condition of the dead, and the fact that God never designed humans to go to heaven that caught my attention. They were the sparks that ignited my fire and its been burning brighter ever since. The more I learn about our Creator and his purpose for us here, the more I appreciate what he is preserving for us in the future and the wisdom of the way he went about it...never to be threatened again, either in heaven (where rebellion started) or on Earth.

Jesus said that "few" would travel the "cramped and narrow road" to life...and its fairly obvious why. (Matthew 7:13-14)

I guess that is what "faith" is all about....we have to see the struggles as a journey, not a destination.
I wish you many blessings to you and yours. I value your friendship, and I appreciate your scholarship.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
Yes, I think that universal sovereign is a good description of 1 of the aspects of God. But I feel like there is more to God than this. A lot more actually. That is my belief. Maybe it is flawed.

I certainly do not think that God is just a big boss in the sky. He is a very complex and to a large extent, an unknown Being....but his methods, as they are outlined in the Bible are not really complicated at all IMO. He had a purpose in preparing this Earth for habitation and in how he designed everything here to be interactive....with the earth, with other life forms and with himself.

Something went wrong in the beginning and we are currently on a detour leading us back to where we started.

To illustrate my belief, please consider: I don't want my kids to always treat me like I am the boss of their world. I **only** want that when it is absolutely necessary. On other occasions I prefer that they treat me like a normal person. I would rather invite God into my life, ask God to put it's feet up. take off it's shoes, and be my guest. I simply don't think that God desires to be idolized. Maybe in specific circumstances... yes. But not all the time. That is how I feel

You are their father not their god. It is appropriate that they respect you even though your relationship is very close and personal.

My relationship with Jehovah is like a child walking at its father's side. I am constantly looking to him for answers, wisdom and guidance. He is my instructor, my mentor and my friend. It is so natural for me to speak with him that at times I have to pull myself up because I realize that the place I am seated is not exactly the right place to communicate with my Sovereign. :oops:

And I was being honest about that. So, based on what you have said here in this thread. It is a paradise on earth, not in heaven? I was speaking in ignorance and filing in the blanks when I made the statement about the metaphorical kingdom. I guess, what I was communicating to you ( ahem, attempting to communicate ) is that reward holds very little incentive for me.

Internet chats aren't exactly ideal but at least you get to speak with people you would not necessarily meet in your current location. I love talking to people but sometimes their responses can be a little confusing and you wonder if you have somehow offended them. We Aussies are not known for beating around the bush. We tell it like it is and its not meant to sound offensive, but to some people it does. :shrug: We can be brutally honest, so I appreciate honesty myself. If I can dish it out, I expect to be able to take it as well.

I was talking to a friend who is a manager of a local Sprint-Store. We were joking around, and I told her, "Maybe I'll come work for you when I retire. Etc..." She asked me, "Can you sell?" And I said, "Sure, but I don't care about commission. If you tell me that I can earn $100 by selling 1 more phone, I don't care." She said, "You can't work for me then. Ha-ha". True Story :)

I had an experience with a bloke who told me that Jesus was nothing more than a salesman. I reminded him that good salesmanship was based on Jesus' teaching methods...because they were so effective.
In a few of his parables he likened himself to a businessman who went abroad and left his 'employees' in charge of his business. Those who increased his business interests gained praise and promotions. The ones who did nothing, not putting any effort at all in increasing the boss' interests were sacked. The business interests in this case were not monetary but much more valuable...human lives.

The whole world revolves around working for rewards. Who isn't in that situation if they have to earn a living?
Can you eat or keep a roof over your family's head without working for a monetary reward? Incentives drive the majority of people. Who would work hard for a boss if they didn't have to eat and pay rent?

It's hard to predict... but yeah. I guess I would do those things differently.

I believe that because this 'journey' we are on is not our fault, (but we still need the lesson,) that we will get to resolve those things that we didn't get right first time around. That is what the resurrection is all about....a second chance, in a better world with no dramas or tragedy to spoil anything. Everyone having what they need rather than an endless craving for selfish wants. Life in paradise originally was very simple.

This makes me very happy.... I say the same thing to my friends... :) I have now gone thru my reply and removed all the times I said, "forgive me" and "I'm sorry, my friend".

You're welcome. :D

OK. I agree with all of this. But I would only add 1 word. "Knowingly". I do not believe that God would apply a stiff penalty unless the individual knows the rule and knows the penalty. Not unless they know both intimately and completely. That is how I feel.

What makes you think that they didn't know the rule or what the penalty meant? Do you think God would go against his own justice by demanding something from the humans that they were in complete ignorance about? Did they know what death was? What did God fail to tell them?

Struggle is God's Way of Strengthening. I believe that God wants each of us to walk our own path live our own life succeed or fail in our own individual way. The incentive of no sickness or death is not appealing to me. That is not how I am made. I do not care about the reward. I care about the journey. The journey is the reward. Sickness and death, is part of it. It gives life value. The struggle and the pain.. it has purpose. That is how I feel.

You must have a very high degree of altruism in your nature. Its not usual for people to ignore or to decline a reward.
We might not think sickness or death is a big deal for ourselves, but what about for our partner or children?
Do we feel the same about their struggles? If their circumstances were dire, wouldn't we lessen the impact if we could?
If someone offered you a reward and you didn't need it, but your wife or kids did, would you still knock it back?

Skip to 1 minute, I think... "Struggle is ... strengthening".

I like that a lot. :) God does not interfere with our lives or struggles in any direct way...no miracles or lightning flashes...he just gives us his wisdom and guidance and tells us to follow his advice if we want things to turn out well. I have never seen it fail yet.

I just don't see people in terms of "selfish" or "evil". All people can behave in a selfish manner. All people behave in a manner which, arguably, can be described as evil. So, the idea of "removing those who wish to impose..." is not at all appealing to me. For practical reasons, and for moral reasons.

The Bible gives us the reason for the fact that we all fall short to some greater or lesser degree. We can also discriminate between something that is bad and something that is purely and wickedly evil. Humans have a capacity for doing the wrong thing, but that level of evil is in a whole other ballpark.

The Bible also gives us the solution to the problem of why we behave in such an imperfect way at times, because God did not create us with this defect. We inherited it like a terminal genetic disorder. (Romans 5:12) It involves a rescue mission, successfully completed almost 2,000 years ago. Someone hijacked the human race at its beginning and a ransom was demanded for their release. The ransom was paid and now the captives are getting ready to go home. None of this happened in earth time however. This was a universal issue that had to be settled in universal time. You have to see God's actions in the context of the big picture.

I wish you many blessings to you and yours. I value your friendship, and I appreciate your scholarship.

And to you my heartfelt thanks for your patient tone and kind manner. I appreciate your candid replies. ;)
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I do not know. I thought you believed in God, but just not that the Bible was literal.

Why would I believe in some mythical being that has no evidence for it?

Per our last discussion here a few months ago, I asked you why do you give people a hard time when they believe in the same biblical god as you? The only difference is how you and they view the bible.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
@Dan From Smithville

Terminal Optimism:

I started describing myself this way several years ago long before I joined this forum.

It's true on multiple levels.

1) I am an optimist, and I often spend time typing away on a terminal ( a linux terminal ). So yes, a Terminal Optimist is Optimistic.

2) I expect to be an Optimist all the way till my final breaths... that's certainly Optimistic.

3) I am a Terminal Optimist, meaning my optimism is like a disease and it may in fact be killing me. Also, arguably, optimistic. Could also be pessimistic. But I think it's optimistic from the perspective of the optimism itself and how it has overwhelmed my entire being like a disease. And even that approach to my own optimism is so very optimistic.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
Why would I believe in some mythical being that has no evidence for it?

Per our last discussion here a few months ago, I asked you why do you give people a hard time when they believe in the same biblical god as you? The only difference is how you and they view the bible.
Maybe it was someone else.

I do not recall. I do not give people a hard time about what they believe. I challenge them when they take that belief and apply it as if it is established facts that they use to explain or draw conclusions about something.
 

Dan From Smithville

What's up Doc?
Staff member
Premium Member
@Dan From Smithville

Terminal Optimism:

I started describing myself this way several years ago long before I joined this forum.

It's true on multiple levels.

1) I am an optimist, and I often spend time typing away on a terminal ( a linux terminal ). So yes, a Terminal Optimist is Optimistic.

2) I expect to be an Optimist all the way till my final breaths... that's certainly Optimistic.

3) I am a Terminal Optimist, meaning my optimism is like a disease and it may in fact be killing me. Also, arguably, optimistic. Could also be pessimistic. But I think it's optimistic from the perspective of the optimism itself and how it has overwhelmed my entire being like a disease. And even that approach to my own optimism is so very optimistic.
The latter is sort of the play on the word that I was going for.

In truth, I applaud, respect and am enthusiastic about your optimism.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
Maybe it was someone else.

I do not recall. I do not give people a hard time about what they believe. I challenge them when they take that belief and apply it as if it is established facts that they use to explain or draw conclusions about something.

Yeah you must have me confused with someone else.
My point is them and you believe in the biblical god. They believe the bible more or less literally, you believe/accept it as stories/allegories.
However you both believe in the same biblical god that has no evidence of its existence but the bible.
I can get an idea why they believe because of the way they accept the bible as truths and written by god, you I can't understand why you would believe in a god when you admit the bible about god is written by men and is nothing but stories/allegories.
The bible gives them their faith. What gives you your faith since you view the bible differently?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Thank you....was there anything there that you found hard to understand? I say too much, (its a fault of mine) but its hard to condense the truth down to a few words. The interesting things to me are in the detail. ;)
We all have faults. And, of course, some faults are harder than others to overcome. I try to keep things simple, but I must say certainly not everything is easy to understand. (Right?) Peter himself said, (2 Peter 3) "Consider also that our Lord’s patience brings salvation, just as our beloved brother Paul also wrote you with the wisdom God gave him. 16 He writes this way in all his letters, speaking in them about such matters. Some parts of his letters are hard to understand, which ignorant and unstable people distort, as they do the rest of the Scriptures, to their own destruction." So even Peter admitted that there are things written not easy to understand. But study, with the help of God's spirit, certainly helps us grow in wisdom. :) Such as the details.
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I already believe that we are not living in a consistent reality strictly following laws of Physics.

But each individual claim of inconsistency would have different metrics.

Examples:

If someone says, I'm a little psychic. I am open to that, maybe they are.

If someone says, I spoke to God, and I know the truth. I am pretty skeptical of that.

I honestly don't think anyone can fly or levitate bicycles. I would need to see that for myself.
(Let's hope you don't ever see that for yourself. If I ever saw anything like that, I'd probably die of a heart attack.)
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
OK, well.

Here's what you said:

"Our capacity now to "overthink" everything does us no good it seems. The more intelligent we become, the less inclined we are to suffer being told what to do....even by God (for those who still believe in him) God's identity has been so skewed by all these different 'overthinkers' that its nigh on impossible to find the proverbial diamond in the pile of broken glass. :("

Maybe the word objection is not a good word. The reason I use it, is because when I read the paragraph above, my brain stops on two parts. It stops on "being told what to do" and it stops on "God's Identity".

Being told what to do is not a problem, for making a peanut butter jelly sandwich. Ya know, it's just a sandwich. It needs bread, and peanut butter, and jelly. Done.

But that's not how I view life, it's a lot more than making a sandwich.

Here's another problem I have with "being told what to do". Sometimes, it makes matters worse. Sometimes it's best to relax and go with the flow.

Regarding God's identity, because I believe that everything is God, a name is just a name.


I think the best way to answer all of these is to skip to the last question and only answer it.

I am not seeking anything.


When I said left behind, I was speaking about the "Kingdom" I hear about. I was speaking about it as if it is a real place and ignoring the metaphor.

But using the word 'inherit'. I do not need any inheritance. I am happy with what I have now. It's enough. I'm grateful for all of this. I could die today perfectly happy. It's not that I don't have regrets. I would do so so many things differently. But, I don't need or want anything more.

It's not repulsive, my friend. I believe that everyone is different. What brings life to you, could be deadly to me. I know that this is contrary to your beliefs, and I'm sorry to put it so bluntly.

It's like sunlight. No matter how hard I try I will never be able to photosynthesize sunlight. I just can't. There's nothing wrong with me because I can't. But it's just a matter of how I am made. there's nothing wrong with you because you can synthesize sunlight.

I can go out in the sun and I get tan and I never burn. My wife, burns instantly in the sun. It's like that.

Maybe you can go to God and it doesn't burn you up. But for me, for what ever reason. I need to stay closer to the earthly matters. Taking care of people, making them happy. Figuring out what they like to eat. And making it for them. Making people feel accepted, and loved, and safe. That's what i can do. Doing more than that, for what ever reason, I get burned, like, right away. Like getting a sunburn, but in my heart.

This is the part where I say, I'm OK being left behind. The paradise, I'm OK with missing out on paradise. I am happy now, here. And as long as I can make other people happy. And do a little bit of good consistently each day. That works best for me.
You're ok with missing out on paradise? Please allow me to ask you -- what personal hope do you have for the future? Yes, it's good to do good for others, if possible. ("make other people happy.") We all should strive to do that. But I find it notable in your answer that you say you're happy now. You may know that people are still talking about Anne Frank (you've heard of her, haven't you?), stabbings are out of control in England, shootings and murders are rampant in the United States, on and on with animals, children, and people being very much abused, suicide is common, people are personally sick and depressed, disheartened to the point they have to take meds or go on drugs. Ok, that's one basic point.
When I read Anne Frank's diary in college, I was shamed and horrified, shocked and saddened. Still am when I think of it. It was so personal. It still continues in many, many different ways. So if this life satisfies you, my friend, all I can say is -- have a good one! I, for one, am looking forward to something better.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
You're ok with missing out on paradise? Please allow me to ask you -- what personal hope do you have for the future?
I don't contemplate deeply on the future. I look forward to seeing my wife at the end of the day. And playing with my son. I like to listen to my daughter talk with her friends. Their voices and ideas bouncing off each other: sometimes one at a time, sometimes all at once.

Its not all about my loved ones. It could be a song, or a feeling, or any experience really. These simple things, these precious moments, I stretch each one out in my mind. Each one is a paradise for me. Because of this I have already had thousands maybe millions of paradises. And I will likely have thousands or millions more.
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
We might not think sickness or death is a big deal for ourselves, but what about for our partner or children?
Do we feel the same about their struggles? If their circumstances were dire, wouldn't we lessen the impact if we could?
If someone offered you a reward and you didn't need it, but your wife or kids did, would you still knock it back?
This is how I feel:

It's an emotional trap for me to think about sickness and death of my children and my wife. I don't see a lot of value in trying to prevent it. Sickness and death are a part of life. When they happen, they help me to focus on what matters.

Regarding their struggles, I need to ask myself? "Would my wife and kids want me to remove their struggles for them?" "What would they want me to do?" Would I knock it back? I would respectfully decline.

Removing sickness, death, and struggle would be a fundamental change in the nature of reality. And while that maybe sounds like a good thing, I think it may have unintended side-effects.

I understand that your beliefs define it in a very ideal manner. And that is why it sounds good to you. But I simply cannot attach to that ideal.

That is how I feel.
 

Deeje

Avid Bible Student
Premium Member
This is how I feel:

It's an emotional trap for me to think about sickness and death of my children and my wife. I don't see a lot of value in trying to prevent it. Sickness and death are a part of life. When they happen, they help me to focus on what matters.

Regarding their struggles, I need to ask myself? "Would my wife and kids want me to remove their struggles for them?" "What would they want me to do?" Would I knock it back? I would respectfully decline.

Removing sickness, death, and struggle would be a fundamental change in the nature of reality. And while that maybe sounds like a good thing, I think it may have unintended side-effects.

I understand that your beliefs define it in a very ideal manner. And that is why it sounds good to you. But I simply cannot attach to that ideal.

That is how I feel.

I appreciate you sharing your feelings.

As a parent of 2, and grandparent of 4, I know that, what I would endure myself, I would try to prevent for my mate, my children and grandchildren, (if I could.) It's one thing to endure hardship of any description yourself, but quite another when you have to watch those you love undergoing hard times, either physically or mentally. How helpless do we feel when they have to face the perils of this life? It has to beg the question..."is this life, with all its problems, all there is?"

It seems strange to me that God would program animals for the difficulties of their lives, but not us. Because of the way we are made, we alone have a concept of the past, present and future. We alone plan for the future based on present and past experience. That, in our current circumstances presents many problems. Some people are crippled by the "what ifs". Anticipation of what could happen, can destroy any confidence into a venture into the unknown, preventing ability to make decisions....or at least making them very difficult.

If God designed us to be caretakers of this planet, representing him here, (which is indicated in Genesis) then why would he give us a concept of our own death and the ability to anticipate it, when the very thought of death scares the socks off most people. Along with religious superstitions, considering the suffering or demise of those we love can be emotionally crippling, as this can continue even after death! What a nightmare!

If there is a God of love, don't you think that he would inform us of the reason for his permission of a life that we were never 'programmed' for? How many people ask that question every day...."WHY?"

It is true that adversity can be used to strengthen us.....the old adage, "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" can be true, but what of those crippled?...not killed, but not strengthened either? How many people are in that category? What is there for those in that situation?

The three pillars of Christianity are "faith, hope and love"....so how do you think those qualities might help us to navigate this life with all its troubles and tragedy? What does God give us to explain the "why?" and help us to endure the present and anticipate a better future?

With all of that in mind, what are your thoughts on death? Is it as "natural" for humans as it is in the animal kingdom? If not, why not?
 

dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
"is this life, with all its problems, all there is?"
My answer depends on the definition of "life". The simple answer is: No. I do not believe that "this life" is all there is.
It is true that adversity can be used to strengthen us.....the old adage, "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" can be true, but what of those crippled?...not killed, but not strengthened either? How many people are in that category? What is there for those in that situation?
It's not something that I feel comfortable commenting on in case there are people reading this who are in that specific situation.
The three pillars of Christianity are "faith, hope and love"....so how do you think those qualities might help us to navigate this life with all its troubles and tragedy? What does God give us to explain the "why?" and help us to endure the present and anticipate a better future?
Faith, hope, and love: I think all three are powerful emotions which can be leveraged constructively or destructively.

What God gives us to explain why troubles and tragedy exist?
  • Inborn Emotional and Intellectual faculties
  • Intermittent infrequent divine intervention
  • A diverse world ( aka creation )
What would God give us to endure and anticipate a better future?
  • freewill
  • appreciation for art
  • random mutations in biology
  • a sense of humor
With all of that in mind, what are your thoughts on death? Is it as "natural" for humans as it is in the animal kingdom? If not, why not?

I don't believe in Death the same way as most people. This is because I don't view time in the same way as most people.

"Is death natural for humans as it is in the Animal Kingdom"? Yes.

"Why?" Because from my perspective all of creation has always existed, will always exists, and never dies ( in the traditional sense ). Humans, Animals, Plants, a speck of dust, the entire planet, this conversation, every word ever spoken, every thought ever conceived... all of it is the same to me when I view it through the lens of "Death".
 
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dybmh

דניאל יוסף בן מאיר הירש
I am no longer answering questions in this thread.

I find no benefit to sharing anything about myself. Why would anyone believe me anyway?
 

YoursTrue

Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I appreciate you sharing your feelings.

As a parent of 2, and grandparent of 4, I know that, what I would endure myself, I would try to prevent for my mate, my children and grandchildren, (if I could.) It's one thing to endure hardship of any description yourself, but quite another when you have to watch those you love undergoing hard times, either physically or mentally. How helpless do we feel when they have to face the perils of this life? It has to beg the question..."is this life, with all its problems, all there is?"

It seems strange to me that God would program animals for the difficulties of their lives, but not us. Because of the way we are made, we alone have a concept of the past, present and future. We alone plan for the future based on present and past experience. That, in our current circumstances presents many problems. Some people are crippled by the "what ifs". Anticipation of what could happen, can destroy any confidence into a venture into the unknown, preventing ability to make decisions....or at least making them very difficult.

If God designed us to be caretakers of this planet, representing him here, (which is indicated in Genesis) then why would he give us a concept of our own death and the ability to anticipate it, when the very thought of death scares the socks off most people. Along with religious superstitions, considering the suffering or demise of those we love can be emotionally crippling, as this can continue even after death! What a nightmare!

If there is a God of love, don't you think that he would inform us of the reason for his permission of a life that we were never 'programmed' for? How many people ask that question every day...."WHY?"

It is true that adversity can be used to strengthen us.....the old adage, "what doesn't kill you, makes you stronger" can be true, but what of those crippled?...not killed, but not strengthened either? How many people are in that category? What is there for those in that situation?

The three pillars of Christianity are "faith, hope and love"....so how do you think those qualities might help us to navigate this life with all its troubles and tragedy? What does God give us to explain the "why?" and help us to endure the present and anticipate a better future?

With all of that in mind, what are your thoughts on death? Is it as "natural" for humans as it is in the animal kingdom? If not, why not?
You bring out some very good questions. Only humans ponder deeply about death and life and the future. As an example, no matter how prettily birds sing, they do not write songs with meaning as humans do. They don't write operas. They don't write books and poetry. Only humans do. And we have to ask ourselves (at least I do), why is that? I am sure you know the answer.
 
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