Ask me about my views on feminism.

[ADigitalArtist]

I have a general interview thread floating in here somewhere but I thought I'd do one for this too. This won't be a back-and-forth debate, just question and answer. But I think it'll will be good for me to put my thoughts on the subject to words as well as good for whomever is curious.

Fire away.

 

[Polymath257]

How do you feel that men can contribute the best?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

How do you feel that men can contribute the best?

To me, feminism is as much for men as it is for women. Realizing that men embracing aspects of femininity does not equate 'becoming women' or, the worser view, 'becoming weak.' I think men and women need to work together to de-stigmatize men paying attention to things like mental health issues. Things like embracing emotional connections with family and friends including forming emotionally communicative relationships with other men. And things like removing the knee-jerk misogyny and homophobic reaction when hearing about other men being empathetic, sensitive or introspective. Ditto when women exhibit assertiveness, independence or being sexually virile.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I have a general interview thread floating in here somewhere but I thought I'd do one for this too. This won't be a back-and-forth debate, just question and answer. But I think it'll will be good for me to put my thoughts on the subject to words as well as good for whomever is curious.

Fire away.

In the quest for equality between the sexes, do you see that as a sameness, or is there a demarcation of some roles?

Regards Tony

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I have a general interview thread floating in here somewhere but I thought I'd do one for this too. This won't be a back-and-forth debate, just question and answer. But I think it'll will be good for me to put my thoughts on the subject to words as well as good for whomever is curious.

Fire away.

I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian, you may disagree philosophically (I believe feminism as it was created and applied did not apply to people of color, one only has to look at the history of the women's suffrage movement and their silence to the ills of Black America and other women of color), with that being said do you believe there are modern interpretations of feminism that have become so toxic to the point of alienating men into isolation?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

In the quest for equality between the sexes, do you see that as a sameness, or is there a demarcation of some roles?

Regards Tony

I don't believe in sex-based or gender-based roles, or that one's sex or gender should disqualify someone from taking on roles traditionally held as masculine or feminine. Be that women who control the household finances and take a career pathway or who decide to be domestic wives, ditto with men. It should be based on merit and interest, not what's between the legs.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian, you may disagree philosophically (I believe feminism as it was created and applied did not apply to people of color, one only has to look at the history of the women's suffrage movement and their silence to the ills of Black America and other women of color), with that being said do you believe there are modern interpretations of feminism that have become so toxic to the point of alienating men into isolation into groups like MGTOW?

The good thing here is at the same time of the suffrage movement, in Persia, there was a movement that included all races and all peoples in the quest for the equality of women.

A lady known as Tahirih removed her veil amongst Muslim men, what a stir she started. She was murdered in the end, body thrown down a well at a young age.

Regards Tony

 

[ADigitalArtist]

I'm not a feminist but an egalitarian, you may disagree philosophically (I believe feminism as it was created and applied did not apply to people of color, one only has to look at the history of the women's suffrage movement and their silence to the ills of Black America and other women of color), with that being said do you believe there are modern interpretations of feminism that have become so toxic to the point of alienating men into isolation?

I certainly agree that first wave feminism in America was a largely white affluent Christian woman's movement. Second wave feminism got better but it's really third and forth wave feminism that started really probing into concepts like intersectionality which deals a lot with women of color, as well as LGBT women and women in poverty. I don't personally identify as under any particular umbrella 'wave,' since I think there's useful and useless concepts in all.

That said, I think the 'alienating men' is more of a provocative image invoked by individuals in media and social media echo chambers than in gender studies at large. And in my view, mentioned earlier, feminism is as much for men as it is for women.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

I don't believe in sex-based or gender-based roles, or that one's sex or gender should disqualify someone from taking on roles traditionally held as masculine or feminine. Be that women who control the household finances and take a career pathway or who decide to be domestic wives, ditto with men. It should be based on merit and interest, not what's between the legs.

Where do you think that balance is to be found? I ask that as there is a line between male and female.

Regards Tony

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Where do you think that balance is to be found? I ask that as there is a line between male and female.

Regards Tony

I think the balance is individualistic rather than any hard and fast rule. Depending on the skill and personalities of the individuals involved. That male and female, especially as it pertains to skill and personality, is not a line but a gradient.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

The good thing here is at the same time of the suffrage movement, in Persia, there was a movement that included all races and all peoples in the quest for the equality of women.

That's great news! I wish I learned that in women's studies. Unfortunately my ideas of feminism taking women's studies came from academics who sought to make feminism as if it was an argument for all women. Unfortunately, many academics who proclaim to be feminists were unaware that people like my mother were worried about being lynched in the backwoods of Mississippi.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

I certainly agree that first wave feminism in America was a largely white affluent Christian woman's movement. Second wave feminism got better but it's really third and forth wave feminism that started really probing into concepts like intersectionality which deals a lot with women of color, as well as LGBT women and women in poverty. I don't personally identify as under any particular umbrella 'wave,' since I think there's useful and useless concepts in all.

That said, I think the 'alienating men' is more of a provocative image invoked by individuals in media and social media echo chambers than in gender studies at large. And in my view, mentioned earlier, feminism is as much for men as it is for women.

Very well put @ADigitalArtist me and my girlfriend forever have debates

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That's great news! I wish I learned that in women's studies. Unfortunately my ideas of feminism taking women's studies came from academics who sought to make feminism as if it was an argument for all women. Unfortunately, many academics who proclaim to be feminists were unaware that people like my mother were worried about being lynched in the backwoods of Mississippi.

It has been a hard path to walk, with quite a way to go. It will happen, no doubt.

I do see that the future may find a balance that is not yet obvious.

Regards Tony

 

[Polymath257]

As a mathematician, one of my goals is to encourage women who show some interest/ability in math and/or science.

When I started teaching almost 40 years ago (!), there were very few women who took calculus. And, almost uniformly they had been told by *some teacher* that they didn't need to worry because 'girls aren't good at math'.

It has been a long time since I've heard anyone say they have been told that (among younger women, anyways). And the number of women in upper level math is increasing every year.

So, there is some level of success.

 

[icehorse]

Can you explain how you understand "intersectionality" in this context?

 

[ADigitalArtist]

Can you explain how you understand "intersectionality" in this context?

At it's most simplistic, intersectionality is about intersecting factors which alter the challenges for people of different parts of society. In classical feminism, women were viewed as a monolith without different challenges that have to do with race, religion, nationality, being part of the LGBT community, having disabilities or being in poverty. More modern feminism and gender studies look to understand those intersecting relationships and how academic research and social policy can account for these different variables and still be effective.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I have a general interview thread floating in here somewhere but I thought I'd do one for this too. This won't be a back-and-forth debate, just question and answer. But I think it'll will be good for me to put my thoughts on the subject to words as well as good for whomever is curious.

Fire away.

As you will be acutely aware religion has a long and infamous history of suppressing woman's rights. What are some of the most important lines of action faith communities can take to promote feminism?

 

[David T]

Tahirih I

The good thing here is at the same time of the suffrage movement, in Persia, there was a movement that included all races and all peoples in the quest for the equality of women.

A lady known as Tahirih removed her veil amongst Muslim men, what a stir she started. She was murdered in the end, body thrown down a well at a young age.

Regards Tony

I Would say she was walking in Jesus footsteps. Not saying that as a christian since that label makes little sense to me but from a pattern perspective definitely walking in Jesus footsteps. Profound story Tahirih. I hope she is not forgotten.

 

[ADigitalArtist]

As you will be acutely aware religion has a long and infamous history of suppressing woman's rights. What are some of the most important lines of action faith communities can take to promote feminism?

That's a great question and I'm not sure I can give an adequately summarized answer. There's quite a lot that can be done, both for women and for men. And a lot of them are super important. Including the aforementioned encouraging emotional communication, empathy and sensitivity in men, as well as self-actualization and choice for women. And to keep an eye and ear out for when people need help, even if it's not a situation that you might be accustomed with (such as men and women of different social backgrounds in trouble).

But as for what's going to be the hardest? To be perfectly honest, I think it will be to completely get rid of sex and gender based roles within those faith based communities. This is not to say put women in leadership roles as tokens to representation. But make no leadership role dependent on what's between the legs. From Pastor to Elder to Bishop to House of Justice to Cardinal to Pope.

 

[icehorse]

More modern feminism and gender studies look to understand those intersecting relationships and how academic research and social policy can account for these different variables and still be effective.

Can you give an example of how this has played out in practice?

(Full disclosure, I'm leery of intersectionality, but I'm open to having my mind changed.)