VoidCat
Pronouns: he/him/they/them
Are you intentionally trying to cause a debate? Cuz this is not the debate section.
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Ask Anything about Me or my Religion (Restored Gospel/Mormonism).
- Thread starter Jacob Samuelson
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Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
Thanks for pointing out why I have created this OP. Here is misconception about LDS. We do not believe 'everything Christians believe are wrong." We claim to have the fullness of Christ's Gospel through Restoration, but that doesn't mean we claim that we believe in a different Jesus Christ or God as written in the Christian or Jewish Bible. To better illustrate what I mean about the fullness is like when I receive a puzzle box from my grandfather that advertise 500 pieces. I expect 500 hundred pieces to be in the box, but because this box had been passed down century over century, played with time and time again, the box was only left with 350. Plus the image on the box was faded with time so you don't know exactly how to put everything together or what it was supposed to look like. The Restoration of Christ's Gospel states that the remaining 150 pieces that were lost in time were given back to man with the picture of what it was to look like. We don't reject the other 350 pieces to make the puzzle, nor do we think that the people with them are not playing the same puzzle. We just think God and Jesus gave us further instructions on the Image of God and how to correctly place the pieces to make a more coherent Image as a whole. We believe these lost pieces could only be restored by the Grace of the Almighty and not by careful deduction of man's intellect of scripture alone.
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
My intentions are purely informative. I think people speak too much for others and it is quite irritating. Like if I said @RayofLight believes in pixie dust and unicorns and practices the chicken dance before dinner, I think me speaking for you doesn't cause debate worthy material because it is just ignorance on my end. Ultimately, we should end ignorance and rely not on hearsay from outside sources.
I am a member of the church of Jesus Christ of latter-day saints... If you want answers to questions that's what topics.lds.org is meant for.
I've read that those who die when in good standing with the Mormon faith will (I gather subject to certain processes and proceedings) go on to rule other planets in our universe.
Is that correct?
If not, does anything in Mormon teaching occur to you that might generate such a report?
Why do Mormons believe Missouri is special (for instance that the Christ will come there when he returns)?
Also do they believe that Joseph Smith is now a God on another planet?
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
This doctrine is usually passed around to be 'Science Fiction'y when Mormons talk about it, however it is actually using a fairly common doctrine in most postmortal beliefs of religion. We believe that the Creator of the Universe put us on Earth primarily so we can obtain a body to become knowledgable (Adam and Eve), with the potential of individually obtaining the same knowledge as He has. Jesus said 'The Son only doeth that what He see the Father do.' We address Him as the Father as well (also Jesus's doing), because He will pass onto his children anything that is His to offer. In the Bible, we refer to those that follow God's will the inheritors of His Kingdom. Christ confirmed this when He says the Father has prepared many Mansions in Heaven. For me, I dont mind living in a nice cottage next to a pristine lake, but I am more interested in being an inheritor of knowledge. We believe that in the Glory of God the Father He will pass down as He has been doing since Mans existence physical and spiritual truths in which we have an eternity to master. He will introduce us to universal laws to create worlds and life and become organizers of universal matter just as He is able to do. Unlike most Christian denominations, we see this as God's work and glory to give and teach his children the Family Business.
Now you mentioned if there are prerequisites in order for you to obtain this promise of an Eternal Life at Gods 'University'. Yes. But the absolute most important prerequisite of all, just like applying to any university is wanting to attend. That gets you half way through the door. The other half is applying yourself to obey Gods will by having Faith in Him and the Son, Repentance, getting baptized by immersion with His authority and having the Holy Ghost conferred upon you to be your constant Companion throughout life. Too Science Fiction'y'? Perhaps, but If you want to say we will create planets and universes and other things like that using already visible powers that exists that can do that, this Universe is already SciFi enough as it is.
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
Good questions. Joseph Smith supposedly received revelation that Jackson County Missouri was the original location of the Garden of Eden, possibly the Eastern part where God placed Adam and Eve on the Earth, It is significant because when the last signs of the Second Coming of Jesus Christ come,to fruition the Church is instructed to congregate there for refuge and for further instruction. The Garden of Eden was symbolically seen as the connection between Heaven and Earth in the Bible, a haven for man. So if Joseph Smith was literally referring Jackson County as the literal Garden of Eden or a symbolic Garden of Eden could be up for debate within the LDS community. All I do know is the Church has been constructing some massive stake center/bunker? When all Hell breaks loose, which we and many believe could happen any day now, the LDS have a place to go.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
Do you still believe the ten lost tribes of Israel settled in the New World ?
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
Joseph Smith is most likely an angel or agent of God at this point. He is possibly doing what any other prophet on the other side is doing. Preaching the Word to the spirits of those that hadn't yet received it on Earth. One does not just become a god (lowercase g) unless you believe those who creates something original are gods of that creation, than we are all gods right now by that definition. Yet to create planets and worlds and life, you must have learned it. It could take billions of earth years to learn it, but eventually you will get there. I believe only after the resurrection of the dead, the milenia of peace, and judgement of God would anyone actually work to obtain exaltation, as of now the stage has not been set up yet, not even for any prophet that has existed.
Edited out souls for spirits
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Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
I am not familiar any time where we believed the Lost Ten Tribes were in the New World (I believe you are referring to the American Continent). As a member, we are given patriarchal blessings that determine which tribe you belong to. Most of my family, who come from ancient Incan of Peru, are under the tribe of Manasseh or Ephriam. My Europeans ancestors are overwhelmingly from the Tribe of Ephriam. In fact, I don't think people have ever been blessed to be under a tribe other than Joseph (Manasseh and Ephriam). Yet, when I went to Russia and Slavic areas of the world, that is were you'll find many random tribes started showing up, Like Dan and Asher and Gad. The Lost tribes are starting to be found in Eurasian countries which probably have the least amount of members in our Church, but I feel is fascinating to see from an internal perspective.
Interesting, and rather curious. Thanks.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
This from Wikipedia
The Book of Mormon is based on the premise that two families of Israelites escaped from Israel shortly
before the sacking of Jerusalem by Nebuchadnezzar, constructed a ship, sailed across the ocean, and
arrived in the New World. They are among the ancestors of Native American tribes and the Polynesians
This is factually incorrect. No Jews ever made it to the Americas before Columbus. And things like the
wheel and metalurgy, used by Jews, were unknown to the natives. Simply put Joseph Smith lied.
Jacob Samuelson
Active Member
While we recognize the obvious inconsistencies with the narrative in respect to archeological evidence, I think most believers of Mormonism agree that in order to fully deem the events in the Book of Mormon false, you would need to comb every possible area (Forest, Jungle, Mountain, Valley, Plain, desert) of South to Central America in search of the absence of archeological evidences in order to determine the claim to be completely false. If you have millions of dollars to fund such a task, please invite me, cause I think I have a hunch. Considering we are finding new discoveries every day with things we once thought were non existant to the region, I think it is safe to consider the Book of Mormon still very plausible to have occurred, as a believer in an omniscient God. I think faith is a key fundamental that man must learn first in order to produce truth. If God wished to reveal to us the exact location to excavate the remains of the ancient Native American/Jewish Civiliztion and show to the world that we had it right from the start, He would and I believe will, but first we need to hold to the faith that comes from Christ presenting Himself in the American Continent and even perhaps the whole world, as His influence should be the most important to every citizen of Earth, not just people in Jerusalem.
PruePhillip
Well-Known Member
I am not anti-Christian. But I hold Joseph Smith to be a liar. He wanted to create a new Old Testament
in place of the new covenant given to us in the Gospels.
Should any group from the Old World, Bronze or Iron Age, have made it to the New World then their
technologies would have SPREAD. Imagine the native Americans, especially the Aztecs, learning of
iron smelting then the Aztecs would have had a far superior weapon to the wood sticks with obsidian
blades glued to them.
Mormons - Wikipedia
Wikipedia says: "Mormons are a religious and cultural group related to Mormonism, the principal branch of the Latter Day Saint movement started by Joseph Smith in upstate New York during the 1820s."
Mormons don't want you calling them Mormons anymore | CNN
My discussions with Latter Day Saints yielded the knowledge that the name "Mormon" was originally an insult by non-Latter-Day-Saints, but was eventually adopted by them, and was no longer considered an insult. Now, they said, "the name Mormon is an insult again." (confirming source is above).
Mitt Romney: A Dishonest, Dishonorable Man
Latter Day Saints are known for their honesty. One prominent Latter Day Saint is Mitt Romney, who ran for president.
Romney is thought to be dishonest by some. Apparently, Romney runs a company that rescues failing companies. Though they are paid to rescue them, they cheat, make a fortune off of them, and still cause the companies to fail. Romney's tactics include building up an inventory, selling the inventory while firing most of the employees (making banks think that they are manufacturing products without paying much in salaries), getting bank loans on false premises, then declaring bankruptcy leaving the bank (and Federal government bailout programs) to deal with the massive debt.
Romney has offshore accounts to hide funds. But, such offshore accounts are normal in the financial world, and not necessarily an indication of wrongdoing.
Though Romney does things that border on fraud, Romney has relatives in Utah in high places....relatives who shield his actions from the law.
Romney assured the GOP that he was against abortion, yet has always been for it.
Why don't other Latter Day Saints object to Romney, and make his tactics known?
A person can only be as honest as his inaction.
They now prefer to be called Latter Day Saints. Christians attacked Latter Day Saints, so they moved to Navoo, then to Missouri, and they were attacked there, as well. Then many moved to Utah to get away from that hatred and violence. When wagon trains invaded their space, they panicked and attacked them. They are not proud of the Mountain Meadows Massacre. Many religions have done things that they are not proud of.
Largely, Latter Day Saints gained the reputation for being honest and peaceful. They opposed the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.
In 2008 President George W. Bush ruined the worldwide economy (recession) by allowing derivatives (real estate on the stock market), deregulated bank loans (lending 125% of the value of land and homes, which crashed when the value dropped and land was foreclosed), and allowing factories to outsource from America (invisible hand of capitalism of Adam Smith, founder of Capitalism requires laissez-faire). As an example of Latter Day Saint honesty and hard work, while the rest of the world had defaulted loans, Zion National Bank of Utah (largely Latter Day Saint depositors) did not have many defaulted loans, and even though it was hard to repay, and they could have had government bailouts, they refused the bailouts and paid their own debts and survived the bank crash that almost ruined the Federal Depository Insurance Corporations (FDIC), which is a Federally funded private insurance company that protects US money. Zion National Bank had refused to make excessive loans (their restrictions came from a higher power....God, not the business world). As a result of their honesty, Utah businesses were relatively unaffected (though the worldwide economic collapse was devastating to all).
Many Christians claim that Mormons are not Christians. This is not true, they believe that Jesus visited the Americas before Columbus. Their belief in Jesus makes them Christians. However, they have their own bible.
Though Latter Day Saints can be proud of their recent history (honesty), they have one prominent man among them who "might be" dishonest (presidential hopeful Mitt Romney). Please google his business dealings. Why do Latter Day Saints not speak up about him? Inaction can also make someone dishonest.
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Arrowheads are generally tied with sinew to wooden arrow shafts. However, in Alaska, native Americans used shells embedded in wood as the projectiles. Arrowheads generally have ears at the back end, to attach the sinew. The ears and edges of the arrowheads are made by wrapping hide over the arrowhead and pressing with a rock or antler until a tiny chip comes off. So, in general, ancient Native Americans didn't glue arrowheads to arrow shafts.
It could be that the New Testament bible was written by psychics. After all, unless they passed statements by all of the apostles verbally (or in writing), they had no way of knowing that info in creating the bible nearly a hundred years after Jesus died when the bible was written.
Obviously, Revelation was written by a psychic.
Why is it so hard to believe that God gave the holy scripture to other lands? Why just make a bible in a tiny strip of land in the Middle East?
It doesn't seem so far fetched that God would give modern instructions (a modern bible) to a modern people (just as Christians and Muslims got their new version of the old testament).
Mormons, today, think of the name "mormon" as an insult, and prefer to be called Latter Day Saints.
Latter Day Saints believe (as you pointed out) that Europeans came to America. That doesn't seem so strange at all. The Solutrean Hypothesis shows that when a Clovis site was excavated, Clovis artifacts were found. But, digging deeper, a much older and different civilization (called pre-Clovis) was also found in lower strata.
There, pre-Clovis arrowheads were found. They were made by flaking. They were fluted (presumably to let blood leak through, to kill the animal that they hit), and an expert on fluted arrowheads of Europe claim that in 18 different ways, the arrowheads match the technology of the Solutrean civilization of Europe.
Modern Native Americans largely rail against the notion that a European beat them to America, and they call archaeologists bigots who only support White people. But, the authors of the Solutrean Hypothesis point out that the Solutrean Civilization, though in central Europe, was Black (African), not White.
At first, it was thought that the age of the Solutrean Civilization had precluded it being the same as the pre-Clovis Indians. Yet, upon further dating of Solutrean and pre-Clovis artifacts, they overlap in time. And, the Solutrean Civilization disappeared, having been driven out about the same time that the pre-Clovis civilization appeared in America.
But shouldn't there be DNA evidence?
Apparently there is an X-factor in the DNA that appears in North American Native Americans. But it is most prominent in the area around the pre-Clovis site in Virginia, and tapers off dramatically in surrounding Native American populations surrounding it. So, DNA evidence appears to be there. But, modern DNA experts claim that it could have come from the Bering straits (where Siberia, Russia almost touches Alaska, where once the Beringian land bridge (or ice bridge) existed). But, why the strange distribution of the DNA.
Opponents of the Solutrean Hypothesis argue that the DNA of a Clovis child matches modern Native Americans. They assert that the DNA of Clovis is the same as the DNA of pre-Clovis (they are, of course, wrong). Apparently, Clovis Indians are current Indians. Pre-Clovis, on the other hand, might have been from Europe.
The acidic soil of Virginia dissolved the bones and DNA of the pre-Clovis Native Americans, so there is no way of extracting DNA for a test.
stvdv
Veteran Member: I Share (not Debate) my POV
I only have 1 question:
Do you believe that your Religion is the only way leading to "God" or do you believe that other Paths also lead to "God"
e.g.: Some people eat mainly bread, others eat mainly rice. Some eat vegan, others eat vegetarian or meat etc. But all live many years on it. So, there are many (food) paths all giving us the needed energy
Secret Chief
nirvana is samsara
Welcome.
RF is a great place to discuss unicorns, you'll fit right in.