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Discussion in 'General Religious Debates' started by Mark1615, Jan 27, 2006.

  1. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    The people i talk to about God believe that he is an actual man... i have to wonder, if you weren't raised Christian, would you not feel a little odd hearing about a group of people thinking that there was an invisible man who was everywhere?
    What does God look like if he has revealed himself to us?
    God would not look like Yeshua since it was his son. If he does look like his son, Yeshua, and IS his son, then there's no reason to believe in the trinity... is there?
     
  2. steve at JRM

    steve at JRM Member

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    Where do we go after we die?
     
  3. angellous_evangellous

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    I was under the impression that Christians have been accepting it since Darwin. Conservative Christians really are the final frontier for rational thought... there has got to be a sitcom in heaven that satires Kansas Baptists. "This week - running water. Next week - they picket Darwin!"
     
  4. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Yes Jesus was sent to the Jews.

    Matthew 15:21-28

    Leaving that place, Jesus withdrew to the region of Tyre and Sidon.

    A Canaanite woman from that vicinity came to him, crying out, "Lord, Son of David, have mercy on me! My daughter is suffering terribly from demon-possession." Jesus did not answer a word. So his disciples came to him and urged him, "Send her away, for she keeps crying out after us."

    He answered, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel."

    The woman came and knelt before him. "Lord, help me!" she said.

    He replied, "It is not right to take the children's bread and toss it to their dogs."

    "Yes, Lord," she said, "but even the dogs eat the crumbs that fall from their masters' table."

    Then Jesus answered, "Woman, you have great faith! Your request is granted." And her daughter was healed from that very hour.
     
  5. Ibrahim Al-Amin

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    Oh, that one's easy.

    Jesus never conceptualized the trinity. The trinity is a man-made concept decided upon during the Council of Nicea in 325, CE, when the pagan Emperor Constantine adopted Christianity. Therefore, the trinity has no Biblical basis. In fact, I don't believe the Bible addresses Jesus havnig divinity whatsoever.
     
  6. James the Persian

    James the Persian Dreptcredincios Crestin

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    The Trinity was not decided on at Nicea. It pre-dates it as can be seen in the works of various ante-Nicene Fathers. Constantine, likewise, did not adopt Christianity at Nicea. He wasn't baptised (though he made known his intention to be baptised much earlier) until on his death bed. His mother, however, was Christian. What Constantine did was call the squabbling factions within the Church together to sort themselves out. In effect he was a mediator between the majority of the Church and the followers of the new teaching of Arianism that Christ was a lesser created god (in other words it was a polytheist view rather than the Christ as just a man view that it usually gets characterised as). The existing faith was defended from Arianism at Nicea and that is all. Constantine did not alter the Church's theology at all. In fact to believe that the bishops at Nicea would bow to Constantine because he asked nicely when most of them were confessors of the faith under Diocletian's persecution is frankly ridiculous, and their condemnation of Arianism was overwhelming. I'd also note that even the churches that were outside the Empire (such as Ethiopia) and therefore not under Constantine's influence accepted the Council of Nicea.

    Whether you can see the Trinity in Scripture or not is a matter for you to decide (personally, I find it fairly clear) but you could do better than regurgitating tired old arguments of some fictional corruption of the faith at the Council of Nicea.

    James
     
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  7. Judgement Day

    Judgement Day Active Member

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    Show me what it means to be clear.
     
  8. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    It was John the Baptist who said this. Again, more clearly: "In the beginning was the Word [Jesus], and the Word [Jesus] was with God, and the Word [Jesus] was God...(v.14) And the Word [Jesus] was made flesh, and dwelt among us" (meaning Jesus).

    ...Pretty clear.
     
  9. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    God can do whatever He wishes.
     
  10. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    how do you know that they meant Yeshua? and wasnt the word the bible?
     
  11. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    of course, God shouldn't be limited to a body. Which is why it confuses me when they say God is a person. If God can be and do whatever he wants, then why do people limit him?
     
  12. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    I understand the Bible, so it doesn't sound odd to me at all. It does sound strange to someone who doesn't want to believe.

    God looks like a spirit - he has no form. Jesus was an incarnation of God. This incarnation was the Son of God, Jesus.

    The Trinity is the idea of there being three in one. God the Father, Jesus the Son, and the Holy Spirit encompass the same spirit. Also, "Son" does not mean "offspring." The terms "Father" and "Son" are signs of respect directed by God and Jesus toward each other. We also may call God "Father," because of His deep love for us.
     
  13. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    This is true, i notice it lots when the christians at my school find other religions stupid, and dont try to understand them. It sounds strange because we've never attempted thinking the way others do.

    So when Yeshua went back up to heaven, wouldnt he have just molded back into the one god? In a monotheistic religion, there should only be one god, not three manifistations of one.

    Why is it important though, if there's one God, why need to separate them? i've heard the term "god's different personalities"... but does that mean God's tri-polar? Or has multiple personality disorder?

    New question: There are three contradictory stories on what happened in the final moments of yeshua's life. What did yeshua actually say on the cross? "Why have you forsaken me?" Why would the son of God ask that?
     
  14. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    Everyone['s souls] go to either one of two places. I'll give you one chance to guess them right.

    Those who believe on the Lord Jesus Christ as God (Satan and his angels believe in God and Jesus, yet won't be saved) and accept Him as their personal savior will ultimately go to heaven: Paradise for eternity.

    Those who don't believe or believe and don't accept Jesus as God will ultimately go to hell, where they will be tormented for eternity. Revelation 14:10,11 tells us the final, eternal destiny of the sinner: "He shall be tormented with fire and brimstone...the smoke of their torment ascended up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day or night." See also Daniel 12:2; Matt. 25:46; Matt. 24:51; Luke 3:17; Romans 2:8,9; 2 Thessalonians 1:9; Jude 7,13.
     
  15. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    So, I am going to assume you are a believer in the Bible since you claim to be a "Christian" (But then again, you know what they say about assuming). What part of "In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth" do you object to?

    The Genesis account leaves no room for macroevolution.
     
  16. steve at JRM

    steve at JRM Member

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    And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and helll delivered up the dead which were in them; and they were judged every man according to their works. And death aand hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. Revelation 20:13,14.
    So even if we go to hell, we will eventually make it to heaven?
     
  17. Quiddity

    Quiddity UndertheInfluenceofGiants

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    Not in Catholic theology. You are either IN GRACE or you're not. If you are in Grace then your going to heaven. If your not, then hell is the destination.
     
  18. Mark1615

    Mark1615 Member

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    Because Jesus claimed divinity. The Word became flesh. Since Jesus is God, He was around before the world began and then became a human.

    The Word does not mean the Bible, because the Bible as we know it didn't exist until after Christ.
     
  19. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    its definatley a gnostic-christian view
     
  20. Buttons*

    Buttons* Glass half Panda'd

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    i'm sorry to ask this again, cause i know you're tired of hearing it, but could you please write out all the verses in which Yeshua claims divinity... not just refrences, i mean the actual quotes.

    This is true, but why would Yeshua be called the Word? Couldnt they have just as easily said, "and Christ was with God and Christ was god"?
     
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