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Featured Ask an agent of The Simulation anything

Discussion in 'Theological Concepts' started by Eddi, Sep 2, 2018.

  1. Jollybear

    Jollybear Hey

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    Ok...you said at one period you went insane. What caused you to go insane?
     
  2. Fool

    Fool ALL in all
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    so you're like Zhuangzi? or the butterfly effect?
     
  3. JoshuaTree

    JoshuaTree Flowers are red?

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    Odd they'd bother to give you a directive not to tell something you don't know, that's not efficient programming. Perhaps you are a bug? :)
     
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  4. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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    Do you think you may have completely missed my point?
     
  5. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    Cannabis, basically. It's a much more powerful, dangerous drug than people give it credit for.
     
  6. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    I don't really understand what Zhuangzi is but yes, I believe Butterfly intervenes in The Simulation on the basis of the butterfly effect - and that this is modelled on how the over-seers believe God Almighty intervenes in the broader universe. Butterfly is very much based on God.
     
  7. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    please, explain your point more clearly
     
  8. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    I could live with that!

    Hopefully the over-seers would think I'm a good bug
     
    #28 Eddi, Sep 3, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2018
  9. BSM1

    BSM1 Who's a good boy?

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  10. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    Suppose we create a simulation within this one? Are we responsible to behave like God? What if we do terrible things to the people inside and mess with their unreal minds? Is it wrong?

    Second question is if we are a simulation, then how is our worth? Do we matter?
     
  11. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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  12. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    Your first question: This question has interested me very greatly. I’d say we have a moral duty to simulated people who are sentient, and that they should be ethically treated, by those who over-see a simulation. I think God would be a good model of how to do this, a concerned but somewhat distant higher power.

    However, I’d say we have a moral duty to give simulated people realistic lives; otherwise they would just be our playthings. Especially if they are reasonably intelligent. They need their own struggles and narratives. They need their glories and their own suffering. Their own heroes, their own villains; Their own history which takes place in a real world which they can shape, mess-up, or improve according to their free-will. We should give them their own world to call home. The circumstances of their existence should resemble the circumstances of our existence, it would be unfair not to do this.

    I think this leads into the question of evil: I’d say in any simulation we build we should permit natural evil (i.e. natural disasters, plagues) for realism. We must also give them free-will, and from free-will comes human evil. I suppose this is a part of the "problem of evil debate" – how to reconcile suffering with a benevolent higher power?

    As for messing with their “unreal” minds, I think history has shown that humans at least don’t need any help messing up our own minds. And I wouldn’t say their minds are unreal either – they are real, just on another dimension of reality.

    Your second question: we who dwell in simulations are subjects of the same political and legal institutions as are the over-seers, in a way. We haven’t worked this out yet but we Earthlings are subjects of the same kingdom as those who designed The Simulation. However, they believe they have a moral duty to give us a realistic and meaningful existence. We are equal in worth but not in status as, at the end of the day, our world is at the mercy of theirs. Also, it would be possible for the consciousness of a person in this simulation to be put into an android and for them to interact with the outsiders. Perhaps this happens to some people after their lives in this simulation end? I think this does happen...

    The over-lookers differentiate between simulated societies on the basis of them all having varying levels of development. The more advanced the civilisation, the closer they draw to those in the outside world. So yes, we have worth, we’re not a plaything. And yes, we matter in that we have the same moral worth as other sentient beings. We should consider the over-lookers as being our elders – or seniors – who want the best for us and want us to give ourselves good lives – rather than as some set of sinister sadists.
     
  13. Brickjectivity

    Brickjectivity Veteran Member
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    What about computer games? They are not sentient, so should we stop using those?

    Why?

    Do you suppose that in some 4th dimensional way the prisoner is the imprisoned? -- They might exist inside our simulation which is in theirs? I mean could the simulation of a simulation contain the outermost simulation? I ask because 4th dimensional Math suugests there are constructs in which the inside and outside are somehow one surface. An exsmple is the Klein bottle.
     
  14. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    If they are not sentient then they cannot suffer so it's morally permissible to do anything to them. I think if an entity is controlled by agorithms then that's one thing, but if it has a mind then that's another. But I think the issue is whether or not there is a capacity for suffering. If we think of Artificial Intelligence, I think the more sophisticated it is the better we should treat it, on the off-chance it has attained consciousness or even a soul - but how would we go about turning one physical stimulus into a qualia of pain? How would that work? But in short, I believe computer games as they are today are morally permissible.

    I accept all these points as valid - I am beginning to suspect that the barrier between our dimension and the outside world (and maybe other dimensions) is more porous and fluid than it may at first seem. This I think is all interesting stuff. But I think it's hard to discern these relationships; I don't think our human minds - as they exist today - are really capable of comprehending all the different realities and how all different existences overlap and interplay. But I believe the elders do, to a much greater extent, on account of their higher consciousness and superior science.
     
  15. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    No. You have effectively blocked all inquiry into the "simulation" in your first post by saying you cannot go into any detail about the world outside the simulation. The first and most important avenue of inquiry is do determine if the simulation is an actual thing and that you are actually an agent of the supposed simulation. In essence, this is just like a religion in that a causation is asserted and then all avenues of investigation to determine the veracity of the claim is blocked. It is just like a Christian saying everything is a product of their god, then defining the god in such a way, that it's existence cannot be confirmed.
     
  16. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    I have recently realised I can talk about the outside world - but I have to work it out with Butterfly. The rule is I can't be spoon-fed it.

    As I said, I am a work in progress.

    So go on, ask me about the outside world

    It won't be sophisticated but things can be determined by Y and N answers, and over time we could paint a picture

    But we won't have access to their texts or the precise details of their technology
     
  17. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    I need a way to scientifically verify your truthfulness about what you tell me about "outside the simulation". There has to be independent verification, and testable hypotheses.

    Without that, it's just so much BS.
     
  18. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    Fair enough
     
  19. Milton Platt

    Milton Platt Well-Known Member
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    Yes, I think it is quite fair.
    So present the evidence so that it may be examined.
     
  20. Eddi

    Eddi Mark 5:9

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    I can only offer you my testimony, which I believe will not be enough for your standards.
     
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