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Ask about Jehovah's Witnesses

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by WitnessofJah, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    precept, was there a question in there somewhere for WitnessofJah about JWs, or was that just a big rant?
     
  2. precept

    precept Member

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    Only the one posing as the witness of Jehovah is qualified to respond to the post.
    Only those who are the true witnesses of Jehovah know His truth and teach His truth.
    And only the true witnesses of Jehovah are able to identify the false witnesses who profess association with Jehovah.


    precept
     
  3. Green Gaia

    Green Gaia Veteran Member

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    Referring back to the OP:

    Please stay on topic, precept. If you wish to start another thread, you are free to do so.
     
  4. SoulTYPE

    SoulTYPE Well-Known Member

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    Um, Excuse me. Then what is the point of a board? if everyone wrote things like that, at the end of their post, a message board would soon collapse and die.
     
  5. robtex

    robtex Veteran Member

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    What have you learned about your community from going door to door......how has your door to door impacted one or two of them (as opposed to telling me about all of them) and has your preceptions changed from your door to door over the years?
     
  6. kreeden

    kreeden Virus of the Mind

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    If I have stepped on anyone's toes , I do appologize . However , I had thought that this was an open debate thread ?
     
  7. precept

    precept Member

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    The question posed to "Witness..." is a bonafide one. And the question Is:

    What makes you think that the Watchtower devotees are the witnesses of Jehovah?


    precept
     
  8. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    First of all, I want to say that any kind of child abuse absolutely disgusts me and I hate it from the depth’s of my soul, and If I thought for one moment that my religion was harbouring these wicked people, the first thing I would do is dial 911 and I would leave without a second thought. In fact, the next time you see a JW in the street, ask them how they feel about paedophiles and you will get a response of utter disgust. Your post is very venomous and one sided, and I bet you don’t even care to listen to our side of the story, right? As a fact, in order to get the full picture you have to listen to what both sides have to say, and then draw your own conclusion. These websites that these people put up have actually done their job, by people like you believing every word they say, and guess what? It actually worked.







    Much of what this “elder” has said has been bent and twisted to fit the conclusion he wants it to fit. People who don’t really understand what he’s saying will believe every word he say’s, and to the untrained eye, seems very convincing. However, since JW know exactly what he is talking about and can sift through what is correct and what is not simply by looking at it, it is very easy to tell that he has a hidden agenda/or has some kind of vendetta against us. Some of the things he say’s on that site simply amazes me. For example, he say’s that people with a history of sex offences (including paedophilia) are allowed to become an elder, a position of trust. This could not be further from the truth! Our organization has actually BANNED people who have serious sex offences to ever be in a position of trust. This is just one of many untruths that I found at that site.



    As far as courage and freedom, we don’t suppress anybody to follow the laws of our religion. If they want to stay, we encourage them to do so, if they want to leave, that it entirely their call. It would be wrong for us to interfere with people’s personal lives to try and influence their decisions. We also never try to personally interfere with people’s thought, since that is a god-given right, and it would be wrong to do so.







    These very “elders” you speak about I personally know and are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Most of these same “elders” you speak about have wife and children who they love dearly themselves and would never want that to happen to their children, in fact, they hate the act of paedophilia. And no, I do not take everything my elders say as “gospel”, because by nature, I am a very sceptical person. What you don’t seem to realize is that the elders don’t teach anything themselves, they teach from the Bible.



    Ask yourself this question: Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses have a system in place in which we expel people for serious misconduct like fornication and adultery, but according that website you have shown, not paedophilia? It just doesn’t make any sense and their argument just does not add up.



    In fact, if you look at our website, it actually gives good advice on how we can protect our children from this wicked act:



    http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_01.htm

    http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_02.htm

    http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_03.htm



    The above links are the same “Watchtower organization” that your ‘Silent Lambs’ founder said did not care about the welfare of children.







    We have never denied that it exists, but strongly deny the fact that we are accused of not doing anything, which is absurd. What people don’t seem to realize is that the victims are the society’s utmost priority, and also another top priority is of rooting the wicked people who are responsible.



    I have also have to say this. Your blanket statements about Jehovah’s Witnesses have been nothing short of incredible. You have accused JW of saying things and doing things that I have never heard of in my entire time of being a JW! You neither provide references or evidence to support these “assumptions” of yours, and in fact, use these “points of yours” as an argument! A term you have used throughout this thread is “excommunicated”. Linwood, can you please explain to me your definition of ‘excommunicated’ in the JW faith? Also, what is your definition of “such is the nature of the faith”?


    The real fact is that if I were to express my concern about this situation to my elders – I would NOT get excommunicated. The only time anybody gets expelled is when serious misconduct against the Bible is done, not because, I decided to accept there is a problem – which is not a sin – but because I disobeyed the Bible. If the elders were to excommunicate me for any other reason other than biblical violations, it would be gross misconduct on their part.
     
  9. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    I take deep personal offence at this. Are you implying that I am protecting paedophiles? Like I said before, if I knew a proved paedophile was in my in my congregation I would ring 911 and could’nt care less of the consequences. A question I would have to ask you is why would our organization protect the paedophile? Why? According to you, there is a reason. The fact is, behind every work is a motive, and unless you can show me what the motive is, the case is closed. And according to the website you posted, the motive is to protect our “image” which is absurd, if you bear in mind that we are not a business but a registered charity, and that all the workers of our organisation (including myself), and the governing body, do not even get a salary, and we also don’t even sell a product. So power is not at stake here, so what is the motive? My conclusion is that there is none, this is only a propaganda stunt to detract from what we preach from the Bible.



    As far as me saying “half-lies” in every post of mine, could you kindly point them out? Because if you want to discuss them more, I would be happy to. I have not been giving my own opinion on your questions, but from the Bible, so it’s not me who you are rejecting, it’s the Bible. As Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Bible is the base of ALL our arguments, and never on personal opinions.









    If you want to discuss the Mosaic law some more, I would be happy to. There are many other passages in the Bible that I could show you which tells you the same thing. If you wish not to accept it, then there is nothing I can do, however, just because you don’t accept it, it does’nt mean it is not true.



    As far as using Biblical verse to defend molestation, that accusation is appalling. You very well know that you attempted to entrap me by asking a simple question, and then when I also answered it in a simple manner, you accuse me of supporting paedophiles because of my lack of textual response. On that note, let me show you a scripture that CONDEMNS any form of sexually unrighteous act: 1 Corinthians 6:9: “What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men.” And also Leviticus 18:6: “YOU people must not come near, any man of YOU, to any close fleshly relative of his to lay bare nakedness. I am Jehovah”.



     
  10. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    Google cannot be used as an acid test to decide one or the other. I could type in anything and it will come up with a response. Now down to the question: Have witnesses ever been abused in their history? I would say a few probably have, but some are questionable and most are fabricated. You have to remember that there are 6,000,000 JW out there and the number is still growing, and at the end of the day, the elders cannot police everybody and cannot control what happens behind every closed door. As JW, we were born with sin and are no more perfect than anybody else. You have to remember that every religion has it’s fair share of wicked people who refuse to follow the direction of their holy books, however, this cannot be reflected upon EVERY JW individual who make an effort to be good people and follow the word of the Bible. If people are abused, they are in their every right to report the incident to the police without the consent of the elders and they will not be punished for it. Linwood, we BOTH share common ground is the sense that we both HATE the act of paedophilia and the hope that God destroys these sick wicked people.



    An official response by Jehovah’s Witness on this matter from their site:



    http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/backgrounders/e_molestation.htm



    And if you want to read the rest, you can download it from their directory:



    http://www.jw-media.org/cgi-bin/lib/ProcessForm.pl?FormType=jwsw&inptQuery=Child%20abuse&optVerbosity=1&objBegin=1&objEnd=10









    We deny that it is widespread and rampant in our organization as people make out, but don’t deny that individual cases do occur. These people cannot be considered Jehovah’s Witnesses because of their wickedness, and God WILL destroy these people. Just like in every religion, there are always wicked people who “claim” to be a member of certain religion, when the actual truth is that they don’t follow any of God’s laws. What we believe in, the Bible, is a perfect, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said for every individual who follows it.







    I am sorry you feel that way but all I can say to that is that what you have been told is not the entire truth, and until you actually know what our point of view is on the subject, you will never understand.
     
  11. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    We refuse to eat raw blood because of what it represents, but after the blood has been cooked, the sacredness of the blood is no longer there because the blood is dead, so it is edible. And even then, we try and drain the blood from the food product as much as possible. As far as 'Weiners' is concerned, sorry, I have never heard of it, however, whether a christian eats the microscopic blood by-products or not comes down their personal conscience, since it is also almost impossible to avoid these things. For example, all chocolate contains lecithin, which is a blood by-product, so does that mean we are not allowed to eat chocolate?

    I think the original point of abstaining from blood has been lost and forgotten about in this thread. The reason why we abstain from it is because of what it represents and because it is considered holy to God and represents life. The Bible commands us at Acts 15:29: " To keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"

    This is a simple and straightforward command, which only requires a simple and straightforward action. People on this site overcomplicate it by going into microscopic detail which is impossible by human terms to regulate, which can only realistically regulated by it coming down to the individuals conscience. :)
     
  12. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    Keeping in line with this current discussion a friend of mine said he met a few Jehovah’s Witnesses at the door and they were promoting a new book that came from their organization. They wanted to place this publication with my friend and my friend gave them a book that he wanted them to read (which was not a Watchtower Tract Society book) but the Witnesses refused it so my friend refused to take their publication.

    My question is: Are Jehovah Witnesses interested in learning other people’s beliefs to help discern their faiths/beliefs so that they can eventually arrive to the TRUTH or is this dependant on the individual?

    Are Jehovah Witnesses encouraged not to engage in reading non-fiction literature (preferably of a spiritual NATURE or websites that offer alternative viewpoints of their religious organzation) that does not coincide with the organizations beliefs/traditions or is this an individual’s choice?
     
  13. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    Yes it does. And who would want a blood transfusion from a dead person? :) Like I said to a previous poster, I think the original point of abstaining from blood has been lost and forgotten about in this thread. The reason why we abstain from it is because of what it represents and because it is considered holy to God and represents life. The Bible commands us at Acts 15:29: " To keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"

    This is a simple and straightforward command, which only requires a simple and straightforward action. People on this site overcomplicate it by going into microscopic detail which is impossible by human terms to regulate, which can only realistically regulated by it coming down to the individuals conscience. :)

    This prophecy go's back to Abraham - before the Isrealites and Jews were even a nation, so it was not during the Jewish time period. God promised Abraham a "seed" which was later revealed to be Jesus Christ (Gen 15:1-6). We can confirm that this prophecy was true by looking at Luke chapter 3 and tracking the lineage between Abraham and Jesus.

    As far as Jesus existing, he definitely did exist. A person who never existed could never make as large an impact as Jesus has worldwide among religions and peoples lives. There is simply too much to deny. Also, the NT copies are dated back to the times that Jesus existed, and despite some of these writers never meeting, there is too much of a similarity in their writings to conclude that Jesus was fabricated.

    First of all, there are no contradictions in the Bible. I have personally gone through most of them through my research, and in actual fact, they are not contradictions but verses which have been taken out of context and misunderstood.

    As far as other books meeting that criteria, what other books do you have in mind?


    Some of the things you have mentioned in the game are against the bible, therefore, unplayable for a Christian. Ask yourself this question: Would God, despite repeatedly telling us his laws in the Bible, suddenly be happy for us to play these things he hates in a game?! Draw your own conclusion.
     
  14. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    Wrong.

    The Jehovah's Witness organization has never backtracked on this subject. They have however made a slight modification to the rule of blood transfusions. The reason why it was changed was because a tiny majority of people in our organization were taking blood transfusions (which violated the Bible) and were therefore expelled. They, in response, took our organization to court in protest of being disfellowshipped, which in every case they lost. These regular court cases against our organization are costing us thousands of dollars in our donation funds, and wasting countless of hour of court time in which better time could be better spent. The new rule is that whenever you take a blood transfusion, you automatically get banned due to your own free will, and therefore, does'nt have to go through a long and drawn out process where it goes through the courts.

    As usual, it has been mis-reported, and in no way, shape, or form does it affect the Bible law of abstaining from blood - which is still a command.
     
  15. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    The decision is not left to the local elders, and the watchtower (a magazine publication) is not left as the guideline. The Bible is the ultimate guideline as the base of all our beliefs, including blood.
     
  16. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    For the record, a blood transfusion is a poor source of medication. There are better alternative treatments that JW's use instead of blood. It's not blood or die, it's blood or the state of the art alternatives. The alternative treatment we use is actually better thany any blood medication. To read more in it read this:

    http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/1/8/article_03.htm

    And as we're on the subject, I want to tell you a true story. A close friend of mind had a son who contracted leukemia at the age of 5. Against the will of his parents, they forced on him a blood transfusion and his body actually rejected the blood and his system started to rapidly shut down and he died soon after. Had he had a bloodless treatment, he may have lived and be alive now.
     
  17. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    The NT itself says that the Mosaic law was void now that Jesus had arrived on earth. Don't believe me? Look up Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:6-13 in your own Bible, not mine, and see what it says. If you disagree with me, can you please tell me what these scriptures actually mean then?

    Before you make blanket statements like that, you have to give references, in which you cited none. In actual fact, the NWT is actually one of the most accurate translation out there today, which include God's name, Jehovah. If you look at most translations today, even though correct in content, have excluded God's name from their translations - even though the name "Jehovah" is present in the original greek and hebrew texts.

    The development of the NWT translation was a huge project which took around 30 years to complete and another 10-15 years to perfect. The NWT was developed by intensively looking at the original hebrew and greek scrolls we can find today in museums, and translating it into modern day English so that we can understand it. Our bible was completed by non-JW sholars who had no loyalties to us.

    As far as our Bible being changed, re-read this thread and this time, use your own Bible to look at the scriptures I have cited and you will see that the underlying message remains the same - honestly, we have nothing to hide.

    Read the scriptures I posted at the top of this post and let me know what you think.

    The Mosaic law + 600 other laws in the OT had been developed to reflect the culture, traditions, and the era of the jews, not for the period from Jesus until now. This is only rational and logical - and also backed by scriptures.
     
  18. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    We have learned that most people are simply not interested, however, you do ocassionally come across people who want to learn what the Bible has to say. Also, the response you get can also depend on the culture/race of the householder. For example, most of the white people tend not to be interested, but asian/afro-carribbean tend to be more receptive and friendlier because of their background/culture.

    My perception of the preaching work has actually got better over the years. When I first started, I was reluctant to to knock on 'stranger doors' to talk to them about the Bible. However, as the years have passed and you get more experienced and confident in the preaching work, you begin to enjoy it more. And also, because you have a positive message to give them, you enjoy even more so.

    As far as personal experiences, I have had the priviledge of studying with people the Bible, in which they responded well. Some friends and family of mine have also had the priviledges of bringing these people as far as dedication and baptism. These people who are baptized are now doing well and are a great members of Jehovah's Witnesses.
     
  19. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    I cannot speak for other Jehovah's Witnesses as regards to whether they decide to research other religions or not, but talking from personal experience, I have looked into many other religions and researched what they had to say. I love the topic of religion and I have done more research than even most non-JW people, and if any religion has anything interesting to say that is of merit, I am willing to research their point.

    Our organization has never encouraged/discouraged the right to research what other religions have to say, and you are right when you say that it comes down to the individual.

    Again, it comes down to the individual. I personally have done more than my fair share of researching other religions by researching and reading non-JW publications and websites. Our society has never not encouraged the ability to read non-JW publications, and to do so would be to infringe on our god-given right of freedom of thought and speech.
     
  20. SoulTYPE

    SoulTYPE Well-Known Member

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    Witness dude, I have a lot of time for you. Although I do not follow the same religion and choose not to. I respect the time and effort you have put into this whole thread. You have earned my respect.
     
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