Ask about Jehovah's Witnesses

[Green Gaia]

precept, was there a question in there somewhere for WitnessofJah about JWs, or was that just a big rant?

 

[precept]

Only the one posing as the witness of Jehovah is qualified to respond to the post.
Only those who are the true witnesses of Jehovah know His truth and teach His truth.
And only the true witnesses of Jehovah are able to identify the false witnesses who profess association with Jehovah.


precept

 

[Green Gaia]

Referring back to the OP:

The best way to benefit from this thread is to only ask questions if you sincerely want to know the answer. Please don't spam the thread simply to waste everyone's time.

Please stay on topic, precept. If you wish to start another thread, you are free to do so.

 

[SoulTYPE]

Only the one posing as the witness of Jehovah is qualified to respond to the post.

Um, Excuse me. Then what is the point of a board? if everyone wrote things like that, at the end of their post, a message board would soon collapse and die.

 

[robtex]

What have you learned about your community from going door to door......how has your door to door impacted one or two of them (as opposed to telling me about all of them) and has your preceptions changed from your door to door over the years?

 

[kreeden]

If I have stepped on anyone's toes , I do appologize . However , I had thought that this was an open debate thread ?

 

[precept]

Referring back to the OP:



Please stay on topic, precept. If you wish to start another thread, you are free to do so.

The question posed to "Witness..." is a bonafide one. And the question Is:

What makes you think that the Watchtower devotees are the witnesses of Jehovah?


precept

 

[WitnessofJah]

First of all, I want to say that any kind of child abuse absolutely disgusts me and I hate it from the depth’s of my soul, and If I thought for one moment that my religion was harbouring these wicked people, the first thing I would do is dial 911 and I would leave without a second thought. In fact, the next time you see a JW in the street, ask them how they feel about paedophiles and you will get a response of utter disgust. Your post is very venomous and one sided, and I bet you don’t even care to listen to our side of the story, right? As a fact, in order to get the full picture you have to listen to what both sides have to say, and then draw your own conclusion. These websites that these people put up have actually done their job, by people like you believing every word they say, and guess what? It actually worked.

You`ve got to be kidding me.

The man who founded Silent Lambs was a witness for 40 years many of which were served as an elder and in high level adminstrative, managerial positions.

He is doing what he is doing now because he has the courage and freedom of thought that you lack.

http://silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/index.cfm

Much of what this “elder” has said has been bent and twisted to fit the conclusion he wants it to fit. People who don’t really understand what he’s saying will believe every word he say’s, and to the untrained eye, seems very convincing. However, since JW know exactly what he is talking about and can sift through what is correct and what is not simply by looking at it, it is very easy to tell that he has a hidden agenda/or has some kind of vendetta against us. Some of the things he say’s on that site simply amazes me. For example, he say’s that people with a history of sex offences (including paedophilia) are allowed to become an elder, a position of trust. This could not be further from the truth! Our organization has actually BANNED people who have serious sex offences to ever be in a position of trust. This is just one of many untruths that I found at that site.



As far as courage and freedom, we don’t suppress anybody to follow the laws of our religion. If they want to stay, we encourage them to do so, if they want to leave, that it entirely their call. It would be wrong for us to interfere with people’s personal lives to try and influence their decisions. We also never try to personally interfere with people’s thought, since that is a god-given right, and it would be wrong to do so.

The sheer number of "apostates" with serious accusations against the witnesses is enough support to look deeper into the matter.

Something you`ve apparently decided not to do and instead simply take what your elders tell you as gospel.

These very “elders” you speak about I personally know and are some of the nicest people you will ever meet. Most of these same “elders” you speak about have wife and children who they love dearly themselves and would never want that to happen to their children, in fact, they hate the act of paedophilia. And no, I do not take everything my elders say as “gospel”, because by nature, I am a very sceptical person. What you don’t seem to realize is that the elders don’t teach anything themselves, they teach from the Bible.



Ask yourself this question: Why do Jehovah’s Witnesses have a system in place in which we expel people for serious misconduct like fornication and adultery, but according that website you have shown, not paedophilia? It just doesn’t make any sense and their argument just does not add up.



In fact, if you look at our website, it actually gives good advice on how we can protect our children from this wicked act:



http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_01.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_02.htm

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/1993/10/8a/article_03.htm



The above links are the same “Watchtower organization” that your ‘Silent Lambs’ founder said did not care about the welfare of children.

You would do your faith a great service if you and those like you would seek to find the truth for yourselves.

The problem cannot be fixed if it is continuously denied, the Catholic church at least seems to have gone some way towards this end with their own problems.

Not far perhaps but they have at least reached a point where denial is no longer possible.

I do understand that if you did this you too would be excommunicated.

Such is the nature of the faith.

We have never denied that it exists, but strongly deny the fact that we are accused of not doing anything, which is absurd. What people don’t seem to realize is that the victims are the society’s utmost priority, and also another top priority is of rooting the wicked people who are responsible.



I have also have to say this. Your blanket statements about Jehovah’s Witnesses have been nothing short of incredible. You have accused JW of saying things and doing things that I have never heard of in my entire time of being a JW! You neither provide references or evidence to support these “assumptions” of yours, and in fact, use these “points of yours” as an argument! A term you have used throughout this thread is “excommunicated”. Linwood, can you please explain to me your definition of ‘excommunicated’ in the JW faith? Also, what is your definition of “such is the nature of the faith”?


The real fact is that if I were to express my concern about this situation to my elders – I would NOT get excommunicated. The only time anybody gets expelled is when serious misconduct against the Bible is done, not because, I decided to accept there is a problem – which is not a sin – but because I disobeyed the Bible. If the elders were to excommunicate me for any other reason other than biblical violations, it would be gross misconduct on their part.

 

[WitnessofJah]

Don`t tell me this is the result of a "Few Disgruntled Apostates".

This is not a half truth as much of the rest of your posts here have been.

This is an outright lie.

The very system that the Witnesses have in place is designed to protect the pedophile.

There are numerous lawsuits and settlements going on right now.

Names are named, money has been paid, and people have been jailed.

You are either a deeply deeply immoral person or you are utterly ignorant.

Niether position is excusable.

I take deep personal offence at this. Are you implying that I am protecting paedophiles? Like I said before, if I knew a proved paedophile was in my in my congregation I would ring 911 and could’nt care less of the consequences. A question I would have to ask you is why would our organization protect the paedophile? Why? According to you, there is a reason. The fact is, behind every work is a motive, and unless you can show me what the motive is, the case is closed. And according to the website you posted, the motive is to protect our “image” which is absurd, if you bear in mind that we are not a business but a registered charity, and that all the workers of our organisation (including myself), and the governing body, do not even get a salary, and we also don’t even sell a product. So power is not at stake here, so what is the motive? My conclusion is that there is none, this is only a propaganda stunt to detract from what we preach from the Bible.



As far as me saying “half-lies” in every post of mine, could you kindly point them out? Because if you want to discuss them more, I would be happy to. I have not been giving my own opinion on your questions, but from the Bible, so it’s not me who you are rejecting, it’s the Bible. As Jehovah’s Witnesses, the Bible is the base of ALL our arguments, and never on personal opinions.

I won`t go into how you pick and choose which of Jesus` words to justify your stance on the Mosaic Laws considering you are using Biblical verse to defend Child Sexual Molestation it would seem far too trivial a point on my part.

If you want to discuss the Mosaic law some more, I would be happy to. There are many other passages in the Bible that I could show you which tells you the same thing. If you wish not to accept it, then there is nothing I can do, however, just because you don’t accept it, it does’nt mean it is not true.



As far as using Biblical verse to defend molestation, that accusation is appalling. You very well know that you attempted to entrap me by asking a simple question, and then when I also answered it in a simple manner, you accuse me of supporting paedophiles because of my lack of textual response. On that note, let me show you a scripture that CONDEMNS any form of sexually unrighteous act: 1 Corinthians 6:9: “What! Do YOU not know that unrighteous persons will not inherit God’s kingdom? Do not be misled. Neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men kept for unnatural purposes, nor men who lie with men.” And also Leviticus 18:6: “YOU people must not come near, any man of YOU, to any close fleshly relative of his to lay bare nakedness. I am Jehovah”.

 

[WitnessofJah]

I urge anyone to simply Google the words "Jehovahs Witness" and "Pedophile " and be prepared to be astounded at the massive number of hits recieved from legitimate news, legal, and neutral religious organizations.

Google cannot be used as an acid test to decide one or the other. I could type in anything and it will come up with a response. Now down to the question: Have witnesses ever been abused in their history? I would say a few probably have, but some are questionable and most are fabricated. You have to remember that there are 6,000,000 JW out there and the number is still growing, and at the end of the day, the elders cannot police everybody and cannot control what happens behind every closed door. As JW, we were born with sin and are no more perfect than anybody else. You have to remember that every religion has it’s fair share of wicked people who refuse to follow the direction of their holy books, however, this cannot be reflected upon EVERY JW individual who make an effort to be good people and follow the word of the Bible. If people are abused, they are in their every right to report the incident to the police without the consent of the elders and they will not be punished for it. Linwood, we BOTH share common ground is the sense that we both HATE the act of paedophilia and the hope that God destroys these sick wicked people.



An official response by Jehovah’s Witness on this matter from their site:



http://www.jw-media.org/region/global/english/backgrounders/e_molestation.htm



And if you want to read the rest, you can download it from their directory:



http://www.jw-media.org/cgi-bin/lib/ProcessForm.pl?FormType=jwsw&inptQuery=Child%20abuse&optVerbosity=1&objBegin=1&objEnd=10

This cannot be changed until these people will come into the real world and admit the problem in order to work towards a solution.

This won`t happen with this cult.

I`m done with you witness, you`ve been ignored.

If I want lies and deception I`ll watch CSPAN.

We deny that it is widespread and rampant in our organization as people make out, but don’t deny that individual cases do occur. These people cannot be considered Jehovah’s Witnesses because of their wickedness, and God WILL destroy these people. Just like in every religion, there are always wicked people who “claim” to be a member of certain religion, when the actual truth is that they don’t follow any of God’s laws. What we believe in, the Bible, is a perfect, but unfortunately, the same cannot be said for every individual who follows it.

Some of you who may wonder why I despise religion as I do can look at this one and attempt to understand.

I am sorry you feel that way but all I can say to that is that what you have been told is not the entire truth, and until you actually know what our point of view is on the subject, you will never understand.

 

[WitnessofJah]

" Over-zealous members " ? An interesting way to refer to Charles Russel .

I have studied the Bible with the Jehovah’s Witnesses , and I have to say this much for you , you do know that Bible . However , when I studied , they wouldn't eat blood ever after it was cooked . Wieners were a big issue , because of the blood in the " by-products ".

We refuse to eat raw blood because of what it represents, but after the blood has been cooked, the sacredness of the blood is no longer there because the blood is dead, so it is edible. And even then, we try and drain the blood from the food product as much as possible. As far as 'Weiners' is concerned, sorry, I have never heard of it, however, whether a christian eats the microscopic blood by-products or not comes down their personal conscience, since it is also almost impossible to avoid these things. For example, all chocolate contains lecithin, which is a blood by-product, so does that mean we are not allowed to eat chocolate?

I think the original point of abstaining from blood has been lost and forgotten about in this thread. The reason why we abstain from it is because of what it represents and because it is considered holy to God and represents life. The Bible commands us at Acts 15:29: " To keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"

This is a simple and straightforward command, which only requires a simple and straightforward action. People on this site overcomplicate it by going into microscopic detail which is impossible by human terms to regulate, which can only realistically regulated by it coming down to the individuals conscience.

 

[cardero]

Keeping in line with this current discussion a friend of mine said he met a few Jehovah’s Witnesses at the door and they were promoting a new book that came from their organization. They wanted to place this publication with my friend and my friend gave them a book that he wanted them to read (which was not a Watchtower Tract Society book) but the Witnesses refused it so my friend refused to take their publication.

My question is: Are Jehovah Witnesses interested in learning other people’s beliefs to help discern their faiths/beliefs so that they can eventually arrive to the TRUTH or is this dependant on the individual?

Are Jehovah Witnesses encouraged not to engage in reading non-fiction literature (preferably of a spiritual NATURE or websites that offer alternative viewpoints of their religious organzation) that does not coincide with the organizations beliefs/traditions or is this an individual’s choice?

 

[WitnessofJah]

Then if the person you take blood from is dead, does it matter?

Yes it does. And who would want a blood transfusion from a dead person? Like I said to a previous poster, I think the original point of abstaining from blood has been lost and forgotten about in this thread. The reason why we abstain from it is because of what it represents and because it is considered holy to God and represents life. The Bible commands us at Acts 15:29: " To keep abstaining from things sacrificed to idols and from blood and from things strangled and from fornication. If YOU carefully keep yourselves from these things, YOU will prosper. Good health to YOU!"

This is a simple and straightforward command, which only requires a simple and straightforward action. People on this site overcomplicate it by going into microscopic detail which is impossible by human terms to regulate, which can only realistically regulated by it coming down to the individuals conscience.

NT was written after Yeshua, so it must have been OT. OT was written by the Jewish, correct? The Jewish do not accept the man you speak of as the Son of God. Since it was a Jewish prophecy, and the Jewish have not accepted it, I would not count that as true. Has the bible predicted anything verifiable today, and not just confirmable from within it's own bindings? We don't even had real proof that Jesus existed, just the second hand accounts of the bible.

This prophecy go's back to Abraham - before the Isrealites and Jews were even a nation, so it was not during the Jewish time period. God promised Abraham a "seed" which was later revealed to be Jesus Christ (Gen 15:1-6). We can confirm that this prophecy was true by looking at Luke chapter 3 and tracking the lineage between Abraham and Jesus.

As far as Jesus existing, he definitely did exist. A person who never existed could never make as large an impact as Jesus has worldwide among religions and peoples lives. There is simply too much to deny. Also, the NT copies are dated back to the times that Jesus existed, and despite some of these writers never meeting, there is too much of a similarity in their writings to conclude that Jesus was fabricated.

There are many contradictions within the bible. I will not list them here, however. There are other Holy Books that have these criteria. All of them. Are they accepted as the word of God too?

First of all, there are no contradictions in the Bible. I have personally gone through most of them through my research, and in actual fact, they are not contradictions but verses which have been taken out of context and misunderstood.

As far as other books meeting that criteria, what other books do you have in mind?

I have played the game numerous times, and have much experience in it. I too am a dungeon master. There are no games where murder, arson, torture, rape or highway robbery occur. The people playing are championeering for good, and fight evils in order to save other people (NPCs, or Non-Player-Characters). For instance, in one game, an evil ogre tried to use his army to attack several towns, kill the people and take their belongings. The players job was to save the towns and people. Is that wrong? It is not improper to imagine the ogre and his army as demons. Therefore, they are only killing that which is purely evil. Is their anything wrong with killing evil to save good? Imagine if this were a real scenario. If you were the only person who could save the towns, would you? Or would you allow the ogres to pillage the towns and kill the inhabitants, merely because you dislike violence? If such things as John Holmes listed were common in games, it is only what the evil did, and the Good partook of themselves to destroy.

Some of the things you have mentioned in the game are against the bible, therefore, unplayable for a Christian. Ask yourself this question: Would God, despite repeatedly telling us his laws in the Bible, suddenly be happy for us to play these things he hates in a game?! Draw your own conclusion.

 

[WitnessofJah]

Witnesses have decided after much critical media over the issue that blood transfusions should be left up to the individual.

Whether or not they "advise" differently in private I don`t know.

Wrong.

The Jehovah's Witness organization has never backtracked on this subject. They have however made a slight modification to the rule of blood transfusions. The reason why it was changed was because a tiny majority of people in our organization were taking blood transfusions (which violated the Bible) and were therefore expelled. They, in response, took our organization to court in protest of being disfellowshipped, which in every case they lost. These regular court cases against our organization are costing us thousands of dollars in our donation funds, and wasting countless of hour of court time in which better time could be better spent. The new rule is that whenever you take a blood transfusion, you automatically get banned due to your own free will, and therefore, does'nt have to go through a long and drawn out process where it goes through the courts.

As usual, it has been mis-reported, and in no way, shape, or form does it affect the Bible law of abstaining from blood - which is still a command.

 

[WitnessofJah]

The blood issue is still very much alive Linwood .

http://www.rickross.com/reference/jw/jw169.html

http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/bethany.htm

But you may be correct in saying that it is more of a personal choice . Very much of the local beliefs appear to be left up to the local Elders , with the Watchtower more or less being a guideline . { I know that I worded that poorly , my brain is about to explode after trying to explain Jung in another thread ... }

The decision is not left to the local elders, and the watchtower (a magazine publication) is not left as the guideline. The Bible is the ultimate guideline as the base of all our beliefs, including blood.

 

[WitnessofJah]

You`re right kreeden it is still a controversy but I think it`s reached a point where you don`t necessarily risk excommunication by choosing a transfusion over death.

Odd it should be an issue at all.

For the record, a blood transfusion is a poor source of medication. There are better alternative treatments that JW's use instead of blood. It's not blood or die, it's blood or the state of the art alternatives. The alternative treatment we use is actually better thany any blood medication. To read more in it read this:

http://www.watchtower.org/library/g/2000/1/8/article_03.htm

And as we're on the subject, I want to tell you a true story. A close friend of mind had a son who contracted leukemia at the age of 5. Against the will of his parents, they forced on him a blood transfusion and his body actually rejected the blood and his system started to rapidly shut down and he died soon after. Had he had a bloodless treatment, he may have lived and be alive now.

 

[WitnessofJah]

Any posing as a "Witness of Jehovah" had better get their facts from Jehovah Himself: Or else! Jesus pronounces the eternal sentence " Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH MEN SO, he shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven...." as contrasted to "Whosoever shall DO and TEACH the least of the commandments of God, the same shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of heaven.

The NT itself says that the Mosaic law was void now that Jesus had arrived on earth. Don't believe me? Look up Jeremiah 31:31-34 and Hebrews 8:6-13 in your own Bible, not mine, and see what it says. If you disagree with me, can you please tell me what these scriptures actually mean then?

The "Watchtower Witnesses" have changed and revised their representation of "what God says", so many times, that they automatically disqualifiy themselves from being the witnesses of a God who never changes anything He says...not today, yesterday, tomorrow or ever! "I Am The Lord! I Change Not"; says God!

Before you make blanket statements like that, you have to give references, in which you cited none. In actual fact, the NWT is actually one of the most accurate translation out there today, which include God's name, Jehovah. If you look at most translations today, even though correct in content, have excluded God's name from their translations - even though the name "Jehovah" is present in the original greek and hebrew texts.

The development of the NWT translation was a huge project which took around 30 years to complete and another 10-15 years to perfect. The NWT was developed by intensively looking at the original hebrew and greek scrolls we can find today in museums, and translating it into modern day English so that we can understand it. Our bible was completed by non-JW sholars who had no loyalties to us.

As far as our Bible being changed, re-read this thread and this time, use your own Bible to look at the scriptures I have cited and you will see that the underlying message remains the same - honestly, we have nothing to hide.

Also; being called least in the kingdom of heaven is a condemnation enjoyed by all who BREAK the commandments of God. All who BREAK God's commandments are judged by the law as sinners. The scriptures teach that "the wages of sin is death".The bible also says "I had not known sin but by the law of God".
If one then BREAKS the law of God and does not repent he as a sinner is condemned to eternal death...and certainly one who BREAKS AND ALSO TEACHES others to BREAK God's commandments, would as a result be a TEACHER opposed to the oommandments of God and would be as condemned to eternal death as any sinner who BREAKS God's commandments without seeking forgiveness.

Read the scriptures I posted at the top of this post and let me know what you think.

The Mosaic law + 600 other laws in the OT had been developed to reflect the culture, traditions, and the era of the jews, not for the period from Jesus until now. This is only rational and logical - and also backed by scriptures.

 

[WitnessofJah]

What have you learned about your community from going door to door......how has your door to door impacted one or two of them (as opposed to telling me about all of them) and has your preceptions changed from your door to door over the years?

We have learned that most people are simply not interested, however, you do ocassionally come across people who want to learn what the Bible has to say. Also, the response you get can also depend on the culture/race of the householder. For example, most of the white people tend not to be interested, but asian/afro-carribbean tend to be more receptive and friendlier because of their background/culture.

My perception of the preaching work has actually got better over the years. When I first started, I was reluctant to to knock on 'stranger doors' to talk to them about the Bible. However, as the years have passed and you get more experienced and confident in the preaching work, you begin to enjoy it more. And also, because you have a positive message to give them, you enjoy even more so.

As far as personal experiences, I have had the priviledge of studying with people the Bible, in which they responded well. Some friends and family of mine have also had the priviledges of bringing these people as far as dedication and baptism. These people who are baptized are now doing well and are a great members of Jehovah's Witnesses.

 

[WitnessofJah]

Keeping in line with this current discussion a friend of mine said he met a few Jehovah’s Witnesses at the door and they were promoting a new book that came from their organization. They wanted to place this publication with my friend and my friend gave them a book that he wanted them to read (which was not a Watchtower Tract Society book) but the Witnesses refused it so my friend refused to take their publication.

My question is: Are Jehovah Witnesses interested in learning other people’s beliefs to help discern their faiths/beliefs so that they can eventually arrive to the TRUTH or is this dependant on the individual?

I cannot speak for other Jehovah's Witnesses as regards to whether they decide to research other religions or not, but talking from personal experience, I have looked into many other religions and researched what they had to say. I love the topic of religion and I have done more research than even most non-JW people, and if any religion has anything interesting to say that is of merit, I am willing to research their point.

Our organization has never encouraged/discouraged the right to research what other religions have to say, and you are right when you say that it comes down to the individual.

Are Jehovah Witnesses encouraged not to engage in reading non-fiction literature (preferably of a spiritual NATURE or websites that offer alternative viewpoints of their religious organzation) that does not coincide with the organizations beliefs/traditions or is this an individual’s choice?

Again, it comes down to the individual. I personally have done more than my fair share of researching other religions by researching and reading non-JW publications and websites. Our society has never not encouraged the ability to read non-JW publications, and to do so would be to infringe on our god-given right of freedom of thought and speech.

 

[SoulTYPE]

Witness dude, I have a lot of time for you. Although I do not follow the same religion and choose not to. I respect the time and effort you have put into this whole thread. You have earned my respect.