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Ask about Jehovah's Witnesses

Discussion in 'Religious Debates' started by WitnessofJah, Nov 11, 2004.

  1. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    I will not answer this question for you. :) If you were to ask that same question to any religious contingency you would get an answer in return that their religion is the right one. However, it is your job to look into detail at every religion and come to a conclusion about which one is the correct one. :)
     
  2. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    I didn`t think you did I just wanted to be perfectly clear.

    I never said you "enforced" it, however saying it is merely "advice" is dishonest at best.
    People are excommunicated from the sect and banned then shunned.

    I would call that a form of "enforcement".

    I think you missed this question below.
    Where does the Bible say that the Mosiac Law is obsolete?
    I find this in Matthew.

    Matthew 5:17-
    Do not think I came to destroy the law or the Prophets.I came not to destroy but to fulfill;
    For truly I say to you that sooner would heaven and earth pass away than for one smallest letter or particle of a letter to pass away from the Law by any means and not all things take place
    Whoever therefore breaks one of these least commandments and teaches mankind to that effect, he will be called the "least" in relation to the kingdom of the heavens.

    Don`t they all?
    :)
     
  3. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    No, most of us are not vegetarians. However, as long as the food is properly cooked and an effort has been made to avoid the consumption of blood, our consciences are clear. After blood has been cooked, the blood (and what it represents) has been destroyed and therefore, is edible. As for minute traces of blood found in certain foods (milk, eggs), that is for an individual to decide - which come down to his/her conscience. It would be impossible to put everything we eat under a microscope beforehand, as this is neither realistic or ideal. However, as long as God see's the effort of avoiding blood in the first place, no sin is being commited.

    Many books may have "prophecies", but how many are actually realistically relevant to our personal lives and our future? A prediction of planes and guns does not automatically mean that a book is inspired of God - a prophecy is only one criteria - there are many others.

    This may be true, however, Nostradamus also told many prophecies that never did happen. The distiction between him and Bible prophets is that the prophecies of the Bible prophets ALL came true, and actually had a significant meaning. If I predicted my own death (like Nostradamus did), does that make me a prophet of God?





    Because they were the only people on earth who were following his laws. The rest of the world at that time were worshipping false gods and believed in pagan doctrines. And when the Israelites disobeyed God, he punished them. If you read the book of 'Judges' in the Bible, you can read about the times when the Israelites disobeyed God on many occasions, and he punished them each and every time by letting them get conquered (temporarily) by rival nations until they repented. His love for his people was by no means unconditional.
     
  4. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    How come God does not strike down the numerous pagans we have today? The whole CITIES that do not worship him?

    Blood is not destroyed in meat. The water in the blood leaves, but the hemoglobin, the heart of the blood, soaks into the flesh, and that is where you get the taste from.

    The all came true? Really? How do you know that? Because it's written in the bible? Oh. Ok. That explains it then. Since the prophecies of Nostradamus are usually vague, we cannot reasonably say they HAVEN'T come true. They may, indeed, come true later.

    What, praytell, are these criteria. List them in point form please.


    By the way, again, can you play games like "Dungeons and Dragons"?
     
  5. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    Someone had explained to me that there were several occasions (specifically 1914, 1925, 1975) where the Jehovah’s Witnesses predicted “the end of this system of things” or that God’s judgment was to reign down upon the planet.



    Was this prophecy actually accepted by the whole organization or was this the decision of a few over-zealous members? Do the Jehovah Witnesses still believe that it will BE in this generation when Judgment Day arrives? If it doesn’t arrive in this generation how does this bode for the future of the organization?
     
  6. Ronald

    Ronald Well-Known Member

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    WitnessofJah, You Silver Tongued Wit_ess, I give up on getting an answer from you.
    You also are in Replacement Theology, which is close, but Close only counts in Horseshoes.
    That which is Perfect, Holy, Just and Good is as valid today as it was at creation!
    My dad, said "Figures don't lie, But Liars can figure." This also goes for those who run fast and loose with the Bible.
    Since you have only the JW Watchtower Babble, I wont keep asking you anything, as I said before I am able to read English.
    Baruch Hashem and Shalom U'Vrachot
     
  7. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    Where did you get this idea from? What is your definition of "banned then shunned"? As a matter of fact, it would be wrong on our part to expel anybody who married outside of the faith, since there is no set law, only advise. I think you are confusing this with our protocol to expel people who bring reproach on God's name by commiting serious sins (i.e. fornication, adultery). And even then, once the individual has repented, they are allowed to return back into the congregation.

    No, I did'nt miss it. I anwered it on page 7, near the bottom. :)


    The Bible said that the Mosaic law was obsolete in quite a few passages in the Bible (both in the OT and NT). I feel it is best described in Hebrew 8:6-13, and when reading this, keep in mind that the terms "First/old covenant" refers to the Mosaic law, and "New covenant" refers to the laws of Christ. Hebrews 8:6-13:

    6 But now [Jesus] has obtained a more excellent public service, so that he is also the mediator of a correspondingly better covenant, which has been legally established upon better promises.
    7​
    For if that first covenant had been faultless, no place would have been sought for a second; 8 for he does find fault with the people when he says: "‘Look! There are days coming,’ says Jehovah, ‘and I will conclude with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah a new covenant; 9 not according to the covenant that I made with their forefathers in [the] day of my taking hold of their hand to bring them forth out of the land of Egypt, because they did not continue in my covenant, so that I stopped caring for them,’ says Jehovah."
    10​
    "‘For this is the covenant that I shall covenant with the house of Israel after those days,’ says Jehovah. ‘I will put my laws in their mind, and in their hearts I shall write them. And I will become their God, and they themselves will become my people.
    11​
    "‘And they will by no means teach each one his fellow citizen and each one his brother, saying: "Know Jehovah!" For they will all know me, from [the] least one to [the] greatest one of them. 12 For I shall be merciful to their unrighteous deeds, and I shall by no means call their sins to mind anymore.’"​
    And here is the crescendo....​
    13 In his saying "a new [covenant]" he has made the former one obsolete. Now that which is made obsolete and growing old is near to vanishing away.

     
  8. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    You're right, God's destructive power today is not as apparent as it was with the Israelites. However, God will destroy the people who deny him when the time is right (Rev 16:16). God is not a liar, and what he foretells will come true. God, in Malachi 4:1, says: "For, look! the day is coming that is burning like the furnace, and all the presumptuous ones and all those doing wickedness must become as stubble. And the day that is coming will certainly devour them," Jehovah of armies has said, "so that it will not leave to them either root or bough."

    Like I said before, what Blood represents - life, is destroyed after cooking. Destroyed blood is exactly that, dead blood. Once cooked, the sacredness of the blood no longer exists, and therefore, is no longer holy to God.

    The Bible's prophecies are not true because it say's so - but because they were actually fulfilled. For example, the Bible foretold that Jesus Christ would arrive on Earth - 2000 years before the actual event took place. Coincidence? A guess? No, only divine inspiration.

    A criteria for a book which shows that it is inspired of God are:
    • True prophecies
    • Historic soundness (times, dates, years)
    • Geographic accuracy (places)
    • Candor (honest - tells the good, bad, and the ugly)
    • Internal harmony (no contradictions)
    • Practical (achieveable and good advice for everyday lives)
    • Claim (who wrote it and who they give credit to
    • Preservation (that the word has been preserved over history)
    • Archaelogical (evidence)
    Here is the skeletal frame of a book that is inspired of god.



    A small description of the game: "The level of violence in this make-believe world runs high. There is hardly a game in which the players do not indulge in murder, arson, torture, rape, or highway robbery," comments veteran Dungeon Master John Eric Holmes in a recent article in Psychology Today.

    The Bible clearly states in Matthew 15:19,20:
    For example, out of the heart come wicked reasonings, murders, adulteries, fornications, thieveries, false testimonies, blasphemies.These are the things defiling a man; but to take a meal with unwashed hands does not defile a man."
    There are also countless other Bible passages that condemn this kind of behaviour.

    So no, a Christian would not play 'Dungeons and Dragons', and to do so would be violating God's laws.



     
  9. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    You're right, it was a call made by a few over-zealous members. The entire organization never accepted these "predictions" and never have. There is no biblical date to when the end will come. The only person who knows the date for the end of this system of things is God himself. As far as the current generation of JW's goes, even though we do not know the date, we know it cannot be long. Bible prophecy is being fulfilled as we speak (see one of my previous posts), and this world, both environmentally and society-wise, is going down very fast. It may come in our lifetime, it may not, but we have full faith that it will come.
     
  10. WitnessofJah

    WitnessofJah Member

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    I have answered you each and every time, not from my opinion, but from the Bible. You have been negative and looked for flaws from the word go, but have been able to find none. You have asked the same question 3 times, and I have answered it 3 times, with each answer getting more simple each time. I have even shown you references and scriptures from the Bible, so it's not me you are rejecting, but the Bible itself.

    I wish you the best in your journeys. ;)
     
  11. kreeden

    kreeden Virus of the Mind

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    " Over-zealous members " ? An interesting way to refer to Charles Russel . :)

    I have studied the Bible with the Jehovah’s Witnesses , and I have to say this much for you , you do know that Bible . However , when I studied , they wouldn't eat blood ever after it was cooked . Wieners were a big issue , because of the blood in the " by-products ".
     
  12. Druidus

    Druidus Keeper of the Grove

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    Then if the person you take blood from is dead, does it matter?

    NT was written after Yeshua, so it must have been OT. OT was written by the Jewish, correct? The Jewish do not accept the man you speak of as the Son of God. Since it was a Jewish prophecy, and the Jewish have not accepted it, I would not count that as true. Has the bible predicted anything verifiable today, and not just confirmable from within it's own bindings? We don't even had real proof that Jesus existed, just the second hand accounts of the bible.

    There are many contradictions within the bible. I will not list them here, however. There are other Holy Books that have these criteria. All of them. Are they accepted as the word of God too?

    I have played the game numerous times, and have much experience in it. I too am a dungeon master. There are no games where murder, arson, torture, rape or highway robbery occur. The people playing are championeering for good, and fight evils in order to save other people (NPCs, or Non-Player-Characters). For instance, in one game, an evil ogre tried to use his army to attack several towns, kill the people and take their belongings. The players job was to save the towns and people. Is that wrong? It is not improper to imagine the ogre and his army as demons. Therefore, they are only killing that which is purely evil. Is their anything wrong with killing evil to save good? Imagine if this were a real scenario. If you were the only person who could save the towns, would you? Or would you allow the ogres to pillage the towns and kill the inhabitants, merely because you dislike violence? If such things as John Holmes listed were common in games, it is only what the evil did, and the Good partook of themselves to destroy.
     
  13. kreeden

    kreeden Virus of the Mind

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    Hey Druidus , easy on the ogres eh . ;) I have DMed too , and have long ago given up on trying to defend the game from those who have never played it . Many don't think that dancing is acceptable niether ...

    The blood issue goes back to the worship of Baal . No , I don't agree with the JW view , just trying to explain that many people have hold a very high regard to blood as the water of life , or whatever .

    And just because a prophecy is not accepted , doesn't make it any less a prophecy . Does it ?
     
  14. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    Witnesses have decided after much critical media over the issue that blood transfusions should be left up to the individual.

    Whether or not they "advise" differently in private I don`t know.
     
  15. a2ndson

    a2ndson New Member

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    Hey witness, I want to say I'm sorry for my words that were written out of anger. You seem to be a good enough person, and my words should not have been directed at you. you are not to blame.
     
  16. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    You`ve got to be kidding me.

    The man who founded Silent Lambs was a witness for 40 years many of which were served as an elder and in high level adminstrative, managerial positions.
    He is doing what he is doing now because he has the courage and freedom of thought that you lack.
    http://silentlambs.org/personal_experiences/index.cfm

    The sheer number of "apostates" with serious accusations against the witnesses is enough support to look deeper into the matter.
    Something you`ve apparently decided not to do and instead simply take what your elders tell you as gospel.
    You would do your faith a great service if you and those like you would seek to find the truth for yourselves.
    The problem cannot be fixed if it is continuously denied, the Catholic church at least seems to have gone some way towards this end with their own problems.
    Not far perhaps but they have at least reached a point where denial is no longer possible.
    I do understand that if you did this you too would be excommunicated.
    Such is the nature of the faith.

    Don`t tell me this is the result of a "Few Disgruntled Apostates".

    This is not a half truth as much of the rest of your posts here have been.
    This is an outright lie.
    The very system that the Witnesses have in place is designed to protect the pedophile.
    There are numerous lawsuits and settlements going on right now.
    Names are named, money has been paid, and people have been jailed.
    You are either a deeply deeply immoral person or you are utterly ignorant.
    Niether position is excusable.

    I won`t go into how you pick and choose which of Jesus` words to justify your stance on the Mosaic Laws considering you are using Biblical verse to defend Child Sexual Molestation it would seem far too trivial a point on my part.
    [/font]
    I urge anyone to simply Google the words "Jehovahs Witness" and "Pedophile " and be prepared to be astounded at the massive number of hits recieved from legitimate news, legal, and neutral religious organizations.

    This cannot be changed until these people will come into the real world and admit the problem in order to work towards a solution.
    This won`t happen with this cult.

    I`m done with you witness, you`ve been ignored.
    If I want lies and deception I`ll watch CSPAN.

    Some of you who may wonder why I despise religion as I do can look at this one and attempt to understand.
     
  17. cardero

    cardero Citizen Mod

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    Very kind and trustworthy people as well.
     
  18. kreeden

    kreeden Virus of the Mind

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  19. linwood

    linwood Well-Known Member

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    You`re right kreeden it is still a controversy but I think it`s reached a point where you don`t necessarily risk excommunication by choosing a transfusion over death.

    Odd it should be an issue at all.
     
  20. precept

    precept Member

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    Any posing as a "Witness of Jehovah" had better get their facts from Jehovah Himself: Or else! Jesus pronounces the eternal sentence " Whosoever therefore shall BREAK one of these least commandments, and shall TEACH MEN SO, he shall be called the LEAST in the kingdom of heaven...." as contrasted to "Whosoever shall DO and TEACH the least of the commandments of God, the same shall be called GREAT in the kingdom of heaven.

    The "Watchtower Witnesses" have changed and revised their representation of "what God says", so many times, that they automatically disqualifiy themselves from being the witnesses of a God who never changes anything He says...not today, yesterday, tomorrow or ever! "I Am The Lord! I Change Not"; says God!

    Also; being called least in the kingdom of heaven is a condemnation enjoyed by all who BREAK the commandments of God. All who BREAK God's commandments are judged by the law as sinners. The scriptures teach that "the wages of sin is death".The bible also says "I had not known sin but by the law of God".
    If one then BREAKS the law of God and does not repent he as a sinner is condemned to eternal death...and certainly one who BREAKS AND ALSO TEACHES others to BREAK God's commandments, would as a result be a TEACHER opposed to the oommandments of God and would be as condemned to eternal death as any sinner who BREAKS God's commandments without seeking forgiveness.



    precept
     
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