Ask about Jehovah's Witnesses

[RitalinO.D.]

Well according to the bible Adam & Eve were the first 2 humans on earth, and they procreated to create the rest of the human race (be fruitful and multiply). Eve was created from Adam, therefore from the same bloodline, IE. related. Incest is when two related people from the same bloodline have sexual relations. If Eve was created from Adams rib, then they would have very similar, if not identical DNA, therefore incest.

It's also been medically proven that children born from blood relatives can have serious birth defects.

This is just one of many, many stories in the bible I find hard to accept.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Well according to the bible Adam & Eve were the first 2 humans on earth, and they procreated to create the rest of the human race (be fruitful and multiply). Eve was created from Adam, therefore from the same bloodline, IE. related. Incest is when two related people from the same bloodline have sexual relations. If Eve was created from Adams rib, then they would have very similar, if not identical DNA, therefore incest.

Let's look at the story of the creation of Eve:

- God takes Adam's rib.
- God does some magic poofing on the rib, creating Eve.
- God says, "Hey, Adam! Meet your wife, Eve."

Is it your position that Adam's DNA was preserved in God's magic poofing and became Eve's DNA as well?

I kinda get what you're saying about incest... if we assume that God cloned Adam to make Eve. However:

- the Bible doesn't say that God cloned Eve. It only makes offhand reference to a mysterious, magical process. Is that cloning? I don't know - there's no way to say for sure that it is. How does this process work? I have no idea - it's mysterious and magical, so it doesn't even necessarily have to obey normal physical laws or common sense.

- their DNA couldn't be identical. Adam's a man, Eve's a woman. Their genomes are necessarily different by at least one chromosome. Who's to say what other differences they have? Without knowing how God's magic poofing worked, there's no way to be sure.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

I see what you are saying. I was merely basing the story on what is known about human biology today. Obviously the DNA wouldn't be identical, so I should have left that little part out. I should have just said almost identical. As close as a mother and child would be.

The Bible doesn't say cloning, cause if she was a clone of adam, then she would have been a he. A replica of Adam. The bible does say tho she was created from his rib. I'm not sure how you can take anything away from that other than they were related by blood. Of course all of this is just conjecture, seeing I dont believe any of it. I was just looking for the JW's explanation of this obvious contradiction, when it was stated that no contradictions existed.

 

[Pegg]

I read much earlier in this thread that WOJ said that JW's take the bible and all the events literally, and there are no contradictions. How do JW's explain the several instances in the bible where Incest is strictly forbidden, yet the story of adam & eve is obviously incest. That would appear to be quite a large contradiction.

Hi,
the laws on incest were given 2,500 years after the creation of Adam and Eve...in the accounts about Cain he took a sister as his wife and there is no mention that it was bad. Abraham also married his half sister and this was not an issue at that time. Lot also fathered his daughters children. God often introduced new laws as circumstances changed. We see that after Noah came out of the Ark, God introduced the blood law and gave permission for the eating of meats...this was a new circumstance and it was based on a need at the time, Noah and his family needed immediate food and so God allowed them to eat meat.

What we believe (and its impossible to know exactly) is that because Adam and Eve were created biologically perfect, their dna contained all the genes that now exist in all of mankind (we see the diverse range of genes in the red/white/black/yellow skins, dark/blond/red hair, green/blue/brown eyes etc). With so much genetic material available, their children could marry each other without the offspring developing problems. In later times, as populations became more isolated, the genes would have lost this earlier variety and so God likely saw fit to put laws in place to prevent problems.

and even now, a father can commit incest with his own child and it does not necessarily mean the child will be retarded or malformed...in many instances the offspring can be normal which just shows that our dna really does have the capability of reproducing without defects and it would explain why there were no incest laws for a very long time.

 

[RitalinO.D.]

Thanks for the reply

 

[Jensen]

yes you are absolutely right on that, we do not expect our bible studies to take the stand on blood that we take. It has to be wholly their decision and based on their conscience. They will learn about the laws of God during their study and will have to make a decision on all of them...not just blood.

In the case of a JW's child, its a bit different because parents have to make decisions for their children until they are of an age when they can make their own decisions. We dont give the 'medical directive' card to our kids to carry, but we do have Identification cards which state that the parents are JW's and must be contacted in medical emergencies.

Thanks Pegg for you answer. But I think that because the child isn't actually a JW yet, and may not accept it as the truth when they become older, it is still the parents putting their beliefs onto the child, beliefs that seems to me to go beyond what the bible is actually saying in my view. I'd still discourage my child from the actual eating of blood as it does make that plain in the bible. Just my thoughts...

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

Hi Pegg,

Why is it okay for women and children to go door to door to preach but not to preach or give a service,or a talk at the hall?

And is going door to door a requirement and if not, how are those that do not do this accepted among the brethren?

Jensen

 

[Rainbow Mage]

What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe was the purpose of the crucifixion and ressurection?

 

[Pegg]

Thanks Pegg for you answer. But I think that because the child isn't actually a JW yet, and may not accept it as the truth when they become older, it is still the parents putting their beliefs onto the child, beliefs that seems to me to go beyond what the bible is actually saying in my view. I'd still discourage my child from the actual eating of blood as it does make that plain in the bible. Just my thoughts...

Jensen

yes i can see where you are coming from. I guess a way to understand this is to think about your own parenting and the decisions you make for your kids, which will invariably be based on your own beliefs. If you were a vegetarian, then your kids might miss out on eating meat because you refuse to cook it for them. I dont think there is anything wrong with that so long as they are provided an alternative if you get my drift

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg,

Why is it okay for women and children to go door to door to preach but not to preach or give a service,or a talk at the hall?

We actually do have participation at the meetings. We have a Ministry school & service meeting where all who want to be enrolled, kids included, can give talks on the school schedule. We also have the watchtower study article at our Sunday public meetings where anyone can participate.

And is going door to door a requirement and if not, how are those that do not do this accepted among the brethren?

Jensen

Yes, the preaching work is a requirement of everyone. Before someone can be baptized they must understand what the preaching work involves and be willing to participate and they have to have shown that by requesting permission to participate in the ministry. The elders will meet with the bible student and they will check to ensure the student is living a christian life and understand what they are asking to do. If the elders are satisfied that the student understands enough of the bible, they will give them permission to become an 'Unbaptized Publisher' and the congregation will be informed. The student is then free to join the congregation in field ministry activies.

If a baptized person stops reporting their activity in the ministry, the elders may try to help them to get back into the preaching...if they have decided they dont want to go preaching for whatever reason then they are known as 'inactive'...they are not disfellowshipped for being inactive though...some people have legitimate cause for not going preaching because of illness for instance. The elders may suggest they preach in other ways instead.

 

[Pegg]

What do Jehovah's Witnesses believe was the purpose of the crucifixion and ressurection?

There are several aspects to the sacrifice of Christ, but if i had to state simply what the purpose of Jesus death was, I would say it was to prove that mankind is not a flawed creation.

Satan the devil made the false accusation that mankind are flawed, that they are inherently selfish, weak and will only obey God if they are getting something out of it. We find that from the account about Job.

Jesus Christ was chosen by God to settle that question. If he could live as a perfect man, like his predessor Adam, and prove faithful under the most extreme trial, then Satans accusation against all of us would be proved false. The benefit to mankind is that through Christs sacrifice God makes salvation possible to any who want a way out of Adamic death.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Why do people need salvation from the Adamic death? How did Christ accomplish this?

 

[Pegg]

Why do people need salvation from the Adamic death? How did Christ accomplish this?

it boils down to the fact that mankind was created with eternity in view. They were not created to die. The reason why they die is because Adam disobeyed Gods law and that disobedience resulted in his death...and in turn, his offspring inherited death.
So the salvation in store is the prospect to live forever on earth... just as Adam would have, if he remained faithful.

Jesus accomplished this by remaining faithful to death. Some people say that mankind were meant to sin, that Adam had no choice, But Jesus proved that a perfect man can remain faithful to God and we do have a choice.

Christians are taught that Christ Jesus becomes Adams replacement. Adam is our biological forefather, but God has made Christ our 'spiritual' father so that we may live by his obedience.....just as if Adam remained obedient, he and his offspring would have lived forever.

1Corinthians 15:22 For just as in Adam all are dying, so also in the Christ all will be made alive

Romans 5:18-19 So, then, as through one trespass the result to men of all sorts was condemnation, likewise also through one act of justification the result to men of all sorts is a declaring of them righteous for life. 19 For just as through the disobedience of the one man many were constituted sinners, likewise also through the obedience of the one [person] many will be constituted righteous


Basically what this means is that God, through Christ, is giving us the choice...we can choose to keep Adam as our biological father with death in view, or we can accept Jesus as our spiritual father with life in view. If we choose Jesus, we, and all those who have come before us, will be given the opportunity to keep living and return to the perfect condition for which we were meant. The choice is ours.

 

[Rainbow Mage]

Thank you Pegg

 

[Pegg]

Thank you Pegg

your welcome

 

[Jensen]

yes i can see where you are coming from. I guess a way to understand this is to think about your own parenting and the decisions you make for your kids, which will invariably be based on your own beliefs. If you were a vegetarian, then your kids might miss out on eating meat because you refuse to cook it for them. I dont think there is anything wrong with that so long as they are provided an alternative if you get my drift

Hi Pegg.

But in most situations a child isn't provided an alternative. And this also includes unbaptized JW children. It is a matter of conscience whether to receive blood in a transfusion, since the bible, as I see It, is speaking of the eating of blood, not transfusions. Still, thanks for giving us the JW view, it helps to understand why they believe as they do on this subject.

Jensen

 

[Jensen]

[/color][/b]
We actually do have participation at the meetings. We have a Ministry school & service meeting where all who want to be enrolled, kids included, can give talks on the school schedule. We also have the watchtower study article at our Sunday public meetings where anyone can participate.



Yes, the preaching work is a requirement of everyone. Before someone can be baptized they must understand what the preaching work involves and be willing to participate and they have to have shown that by requesting permission to participate in the ministry. The elders will meet with the bible student and they will check to ensure the student is living a christian life and understand what they are asking to do. If the elders are satisfied that the student understands enough of the bible, they will give them permission to become an 'Unbaptized Publisher' and the congregation will be informed. The student is then free to join the congregation in field ministry activies.

If a baptized person stops reporting their activity in the ministry, the elders may try to help them to get back into the preaching...if they have decided they dont want to go preaching for whatever reason then they are known as 'inactive'...they are not disfellowshipped for being inactive though...some people have legitimate cause for not going preaching because of illness for instance. The elders may suggest they preach in other ways instead.

Thanks for the reply, actually I was asking why women can not be leaders and lead a Sunday meeting? It is always men.


So then it actually isn't a requirement, if one can be inactive. You say that they are not disfellowshipped, yet they likely aren't received as well by others in the congregation if inactive?

I've had bible studies with JWs, and the studies went agonizingly slow, and after a year and a half they still never mentioned coming to the Kingdom Hall. Is there a certain length of time that one takes a bible study before they can come to, or are ready to attend services?

Jensenolarbaby:

 

[Pegg]

Hi Pegg.

But in most situations a child isn't provided an alternative. And this also includes unbaptized JW children. It is a matter of conscience whether to receive blood in a transfusion, since the bible, as I see It, is speaking of the eating of blood, not transfusions. Still, thanks for giving us the JW view, it helps to understand why they believe as they do on this subject.

Jensen

hey,

A child, or adult, always be provided with the alternatives, there is no way in the world we would sit back and not accept any sort of treatment if it were available. However, the misconception that ONLY blood will help... is absolutely wrong.

When a person looses a lot of blood, their blood pressure drops and they may go into shock so the immediate need is to stop the bleeding and restore the volume. That can be achieved without using whole blood or blood plasma. There are several nonblood fluids that we readily accept as alternatives which do the job. Saline (salt) solution, which is compatible with everyones blood. Dextran, Haemaccel, Hetastarch and lactated Ringer’s solution are all good alternatives that carry no risk of infection and restore lost volume to enable the body to keep its pressure up and distribute oxygen.

Witnesses have also had heart, kidney and liver transplants successfully by using these alternatives rather then blood. So the proof is in the pudding. The alternatives are safer and more readily available then blood and we will use them when ever they are deemed necessary.

 

[Pegg]

Thanks for the reply, actually I was asking why women can not be leaders and lead a Sunday meeting? It is always men.

the congregation is led by men because that is the way God wants it. Men are good leaders, they always have been and always will be. The biblical precedent is seen in the headship arrangement:
1Cor11:3 But I want YOU to know that the head of every man is the Christ; in turn the head of a woman is the man; in turn the head of the Christ is God.

So then it actually isn't a requirement, if one can be inactive. You say that they are not disfellowshipped, yet they likely aren't received as well by others in the congregation if inactive?

I wouldn't say they aren't received as well. Every member of the congregation is viewed as equal no matter how much time we spend in the preaching work. But inactive members generally stop coming to meetings and associating with the congregation...its not because the congregation stop associating with them though. The elders keep contact with inactive members and encourage them to come back...or they may even assign a member of the congregation to visit the person from time to time or help them with some difficulty they may be having. I can remember we had an incapacitated older sister in our congregation who never left her house and the congregation had an arrangement where two or three would sit with her for the meetings and listen in over the phone with her. This was because she was ill and housebound but still a valued member of the congregation.

I've had bible studies with JWs, and the studies went agonizingly slow, and after a year and a half they still never mentioned coming to the Kingdom Hall. Is there a certain length of time that one takes a bible study before they can come to, or are ready to attend services?

Jensenolarbaby:

wow, im very surprised at that. There is no length of time...we invite people who are not studying to come to meetings all the time. Perhaps they were waiting for you to indicate that you wanted to come along to the meeting, or didnt want to come across as pushy? You dont need an invitation to come to a meeting, they are open to the public.

You might be interested in coming along to the memorial which will be held in April. I can get you some information for a kingdom hall in your area if you like, or you can request someone to contact you from your local kingdom hall from this email

 

[DoctorAnswerMan]

"People are people so why should it be...." So goes the song, at any rate. April 17 is the date for the Memorial this year I understand. Any who wish to have a look at this group who call themselves 'Witnesses of the Most High' should consider this invitation to respectfully observe this most significant occasion. I have attended and it was eye opening.

(By the way, I was born on April 17. Coincidentally that day coincided with the Easter Celebration of popular Christendom in that year on that day. This year that day falls on the actual Memorial of the offering of the Christ as ransom sacrifice. Interesting!)