Ask About Islam - an independent perspective.

[KWED]

Neither what you believe or what as such? So it is based on nothing, since or what as such. covers everything else than belief. Is that correct? Or it is actually based on something?

Yes.

 

[KWED]

How do you know that it is the correct way to do it? You know, evidence and all that.

See #28.
It is very short and unambiguous. Surprised you had trouble with it the first time.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

Indeed. I use Ibn Kathir, for two main reasons.
1. His tafsir is the most widely used today so it can't be accused of being a minority or extremist view.
2. I have a copy of it in English.

I accept he was a scholar (although it is quite a vague term), but I don't use him as a reference (see above).

So you have apparently made non-objective choices as per objective:
- expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
Definition of OBJECTIVE

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

See #28.
It is very short and unambiguous. Surprised you had trouble with it the first time.

Yes, you explained it well in #39. I understand it now. You are not objective based on that post.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Indeed. I use Ibn Kathir, for two main reasons.
1. His tafsir is the most widely used today so it can't be accused of being a minority or extremist view.
2. I have a copy of it in English.

.

I don't know why if something is being widely used it means, it is good.
What do you think of this verse:

"If you follow the majority of people on the earth, they will lead you astray from the path of God, for they follow only conjecture and surmise." 6:116

I accept we was a scholar (although it is quite a vague term), but I don't use him as a reference (see above).

It is good you accept him as scholar.
So, let's say, you want to know a Tafseer of a verse. Imam Sadigh says one thing, and ibn khateer says another thing. Do you go with Ibn Khateer or Sadigh? Why?

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Muhammad was a political leader. And a military one. Thought that was taken for granted.

OK, so, if you say, Muhammad was political leader, thus, why you don't want to know who Muhammad appointed as the leader after Himself? You think He did not care? How could a leader does not care who would be the leader after Him?

 

[KWED]

So you have apparently made non-objective choices as per objective:
- expressing or dealing with facts or conditions as perceived without distortion by personal feelings, prejudices, or interpretations
Definition of OBJECTIVE

You seem somewhat confused by all this.
Anyway, as I said feel free to not ask any questions if you are unhappy with my method. I won't cry.

 

[mikkel_the_dane]

You seem somewhat confused by all this.
Anyway, as I said feel free to not ask any questions if you are unhappy with my method. I won't cry.

Well, as far as I can tell you are bias like everybody else. And that includes me, when it comes to how to interpret religion. I just admit it.

 

[KWED]

I don't know why if something is being widely used it means, it is good.

I didn't claim it was "good", just that is served a purpose. Although tbh, when I compare Ibn Kathir to other classical scholars they are usually pretty similar.

What do you think of this verse:
"If you follow the majority of people on the earth, they will lead you astray from the path of God, for they follow only conjecture and surmise." 6:116

At first glance it would appear to be referring to disbelievers rather than Muslim scholars. Consulting a few tafsir confirms this.

It is good you accept him as scholar.

I said that I accept he is a scholar (but pretty much anyone can be a scholar, there is no formal qualification). I do not use him as a source.

So, let's say, you want to know a Tafseer of a verse. Imam Sadigh says one thing, and ibn khateer says another thing. Do you go with Ibn Khateer or Sadigh? Why?

Ibn Kathir, for the reasons stated earlier. We cannot consult every "scholar" as there are thousands of them. Choosing one that is highly influential and widely used seems reasonable. It could have been another. I wouldn't worry too much about it. If you already have a favourite scholar then keep using them. I won't mind.[/QUOTE]

 

[KWED]

OK, so, if you say, Muhammad was political leader, thus, why you don't want to know who Muhammad appointed as the leader after Himself? You think He did not care? How could a leader does not care who would be the leader after Him?

Because it is a contentious political sectarian issue, not a theological one.

 

[KWED]

Well, as far as I can tell you are bias like everybody else.

I am biased towards being objective and independent.

And that includes me, when it comes to how to interpret religion. I just admit it.

I am not interpreting it.

 

[InvestigateTruth]

Because it is a contentious political sectarian issue, not a theological one.

This is your personal view. But you seem to claim your personal view on Islam, is the real Islam.

Is Ibni Khateer a well-grounded in knowledge?
How does Ibni khateer interpret the term Well-grounded in knowledge, which is a term used in verse 3:7?

The reason I am saying this, is because according to Quran, there is a group of people who are called well-grounded in knowledge. These are the ones that know Quran the best.
Ibni Kahteer did not claim to be one of them. But Imam Sadigh did so.
So, it is originally a theological matter. Not just a political.

 

[Clara Tea]

As the last couple of AAI threads seemed to be just intended for preaching dogma with no attempt at actually informing, discussing or responding to questions in good faith, I thought I'd start one where there will be no agenda other than to present what the Quran, sunnah and classical tafsir actually say on an issue. No sectarianism. No opinions (apart from those of authoritative classical scholars). Just the 'facts', ma'am.

And I promise not to accuse anyone of hate or bashing or ignorance if they don't agree with my replies. And I won't put anyone on ignore if I can't come up with an answer.

The polytheists didn't like my discussion of parrots.

The dyslexics didn't like my dogma (amgod), and I think that someone's karma ran over my dogma.

But, I promise to bring the full force of my intellect to this discussion (I'm doomed).

Thank you for promising to discuss an issue. Uh.....you forgot to mention the issue.

 

[Clara Tea]

I am biased towards being objective and independent.

I am not interpreting it.

Aha....what Grouch Marx would classify as an "upstart."

Thinking for yourself is a sure way of getting disagreements.

 

[Clara Tea]

Considering that the answer to that question might affect which scriptures you consider canonical or not that might be of interest for that sort of discussion though.

Some people are about to shoot me....which is upsetting in a canonical discussion (use smaller caliber please).

 

[InvestigateTruth]

.

At first glance it would appear to be referring to disbelievers rather than Muslim scholars. Consulting a few tafsir confirms this.

I don't know if those tagseers are correct.
There is a specific term in Quran which means disbelievers. So, if He wanted to say that, He could use that word.

But according to Hadithes like this, the Majority of Muslims are not guided:

“The Jews split into seventy-one sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy in Hell. The Christians split into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which will be in Hell and one in Paradise. I swear by the One Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, my nation will split into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell.” It was said: “O Messenger of Allah, who are they?” He said: “The main body.”

It seems, only a minority of Muslims are considered on the right path, according to this Hadith. This Hadith is repeated from several sources.


The issue that Quran often raises is, how people of the Book followed their leaders blindly, and were mislead by them, so, do you think, the same thing has been happening in Islam? Do Muslim groups just follow their religious leaders the way people of the Book has been doing?

 

[stevecanuck]

Do you have such a working knowledge of the Quran and Islam to intelligently field any question about Islam...without bias?

Why don't you ask a question and gauge the answer?

 

[epronovost]

Some people are about to shoot me....which is upsetting in a canonical discussion (use smaller caliber please).

Canon vs cannon. The one with two N's is the big gun and the other is general rule or principle/the body of holy scripture in a religion... Gosh do I suck at jokes.

 

[KWED]

This is your personal view. But you seem to claim your personal view on Islam, is the real Islam.

You are mistaken.

Is Ibni Khateer a well-grounded in knowledge?

What do you mean by "well grounded"?

How does Ibni khateer interpret the term Well-grounded in knowledge, which is a term used in verse 3:7?

Men of understanding of the meaning of the Quran. Who have been bestowed with knowledge by Allah, etc.

The reason I am saying this, is because according to Quran, there is a group of people who are called well-grounded in knowledge. These are the ones that know Quran the best.
Ibni Kahteer did not claim to be one of them. But Imam Sadigh did so.

I claim to be one as well. Pretty easy, huh?
Judging by the volumes he wrote, the sources he used, and the reputation he acquired, Ibn Kathir was clearly "well-grounded in knowledge", even of he didn't go around boasting about it like Sadiq.

Tell you what. You start your own thread and use Imam Sadiq as your preferred tafsir. Happy?

 

[KWED]

I don't know if those tagseers are correct.
There is a specific term in Quran which means disbelievers. So, if He wanted to say that, He could use that word.

But according to Hadithes like this, the Majority of Muslims are not guided:

“The Jews split into seventy-one sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy in Hell. The Christians split into seventy-two sects, seventy-one of which will be in Hell and one in Paradise. I swear by the One Whose Hand is the soul of Muhammad, my nation will split into seventy-three sects, one of which will be in Paradise and seventy-two in Hell.” It was said: “O Messenger of Allah, who are they?” He said: “The main body.”

It seems, only a minority of Muslims are considered on the right path, according to this Hadith. This Hadith is repeated from several sources.

The issue that Quran often raises is, how people of the Book followed their leaders blindly, and were mislead by them, so, do you think, the same thing has been happening in Islam? Do Muslim groups just follow their religious leaders the way people of the Book has been doing?

It seems that like some other Muslims, you seem overly concerned with excluding other Muslims from Islam.
I don't do that, but good luck in your endeavours.